[336881]

A warm and/or analog-like DAC is certainly a must when building around an original 009, but I still feel these kinds of systems will benefit greatly by going to the 009S. I don't feel like any DAC can tame the 009 nearly as much as a vinyl source or especially T2 can.

Yeah if there was a dac out there that could come close to vinyl it would be a different story with me and the sr-009. A big record fan that I know said the new benchmark dac really floats his boat but I'm awfully skeptical. I was lucky enough to own a sr-009 and kgsshv and Pavane ( a $4k dac at the time I bought it) . Honestly the sr-009 could not separate itself much from the 007mk1 and hd800/dsha4 that I also had. Different sound sig.'s for sure but all ultimately fairly even steven with one another. Enter in some really nice record players, direct to disc records and decently high end cart's and phono pre's and wow the sr-009 really, really separate's itself from the 007mk1 and hd800.

Maybe when I own some SX-1000 Labo's, NS-10000's, Grand Scepter's, APM-8's or if I really want to wish on a star SS-R10's I will go for the sr-009's. I kind of like the forgiving nature of speakers with records as far as pops and ticks go and thus feel like I need to put some more funds towards that first.

It is also very hard for me to recommend spending $2k or more on a dac. My newest dac only set me back $1k and it is def. my fav. dac but even my simple ps-6750 and dl-110 and homc phono pre out of my C-2301 gets up there and probably best's it with the few mint records that I have. My tts-3000, ma-505, 20x2H with the same pre kind of leaves my dac in the dust and the gt2000 and bl-91 with the heavy gold platter left the tts-3000 in the dust with the same 20x2H. Sadly the gt2000 and bl-91 would not fit into my current setup but yeah scary, scary good sources for $1-2k.

 

[astrostar59]

Ouch, that's a bummer.

As for the SR-009, a DIY-T2 is unfortunately unfeasible for many of us haha. These days there are lots of DACs to choose from that have a more 'relaxed' sound, especially NOS R2R DACs according to most.

Indeed. I messed around with many DS DACs, and some modern up sampling variants like the CH Precision. I never strayed from R-2R with tube output however, it is the way they portray things that to me sounds most natural.

There is a real step change (up) to be had by shopping around and 'preparing' to spend a bit more. Agree not in all cases does cost v performance, but I have found there are big gains to be had, that massively affect the final sound by focussing on the front end. Just like pre-amplifiers can affect the final sound, DACs can do that but more so. it isn't 'just digital' . The conversion, the digital board design, the lack of filtering, oversampling, power supply, output transformers, gain stage. Just like any amp design, things can change pretty radically in a DAC.

Anyway, my thoughts and findings. My advice, if you are close to your end game headphone and amp, look at the front end next.

 

[isquirrel]

For the first time in many years of Head_fi listening I am now doing the bulk of my listening from the 009S. It makes every other headphone I possess sound veiled. There are occasions where I get out the Abyss Phi for that Album wherein you want to enjoy the bass output, even so I find myself missing the rest of the music and the whole project takes on a worthless feeling followed by how quickly can I hook the 009S back up again.

The MSB amp has a balanced pass through so another set of XLR's will make the transition much easier. There is total silence from both drivers and zero channel in-balance so I am one happy camper. In the end I find that don't want to sacrifice everything else just for the bass. IMHO the Stax SR-009S are the best Headphones I have ever heard.

 

[Hubert481]

Normally, the newest owned hp is always the best hp
3 Months later - the opinion might be clearer

 

[isquirrel]

Indeed. I messed around with many DS DACs, and some modern up sampling variants like the CH Precision. I never strayed from R-2R with tube output however, it is the way they portray things that to me sounds most natural.

There is a real step change (up) to be had by shopping around and 'preparing' to spend a bit more. Agree not in all cases does cost v performance, but I have found there are big gains to be had, that massively affect the final sound by focussing on the front end. Just like pre-amplifiers can affect the final sound, DACs can do that but more so. it isn't 'just digital' . The conversion, the digital board design, the lack of filtering, oversampling, power supply, output transformers, gain stage. Just like any amp design, things can change pretty radically in a DAC.

Anyway, my thoughts and findings. My advice, if you are close to your end game headphone and amp, look at the front end next.

My findings exactly, it wasn't until I had gone through a lot of DAC's and I realised that I had to be prepared to spend a lot more than I had planned that I finally found a DAC that sounded as close to its Analog equivalent musically. For a source I had gone down the route of Roon plus Mac, I tried all sorts of different front end solutions and ended up with the Aurender, if it hadn't had the ability to sync the DAC's word clock to it I probably would have passed and kept using the Computer Audio Design CAT with external power supply. I really wanted to try the Baetis however that is not easy in the land of OZ. BTW I have not heard your DAC but a good friend who runs Mono & Stereo had suggested it as a must listen. He ended up with the same DAC as I. IMHO the DAC + Source is at the heart of any end game setup and costs significantly more than the vinyl equivalent. Why not go pure Analog then? Simple, I cannot access a lot of the music I like as its simply not available on Vinyl.

Having said that I am adding a Doehmann Helix 1 table and Schroder CB9 + Thrax Orpheus to the system later this year. When budget allows I would love to swap the CB9 out for a SAT 9" arm. The Helix 1 should have vacuum hold down by the end of this year.

Enjoy your Aries Cerat Kassandra Ref II, I hear its a wonderful DAC.

 

[astrostar59]

Thanks iSquirrel. Oops best PM if we continue or move to the DAC threads. But yes, glad you found your end game in digital as well!

I see you have a storming headphone selection there, very jealous..... I love both HPs and speakers, but maybe have a slight soft spot for HPs, not sure why. Maybe I can listen loud at anytime, or just the 'contact' I feel I get with the music? BTW there is now an Oz dealer for AC, I met him at Munich, nice guy. You should talk to him...

 

[Trance_Gott]

After a few days with the SR009s I can easily say that this headphone has attributes (tonality, resolution, speed) no other headphone can match! Okay maybe HE1 but I have not heared it.
The bass on the SR009s can hit very hard when called for but is thinner sounding as the SR007 bass port mod.
Just for more bass with a lot of slam and rumble I take the EQ.
Here are my settings for the Daphile EQ.

The SR009s can easily EQd in the bass department because before It shows distortion you have a handful db's on top all above 250Hz.
With this setting my SR007a bass port mod has lower bass quantity and you did not loose the air and openess of the SR009s.

My next experiment was to sound it warm like the LCD4 and the slam of the Atticus. What I get is these 2 attributes with better highs. This settings loose a bit of the air.
No distortion in the bass department what shows the great quality of these drivers! Superb work Stax!

I'm really curious about measurements (freq, THD, Impulse response) vs. SR009. For me it seems the SR009s is cleaner sounding has more potential for EQ like my previous SR009 had.

 

[buzzlulu]

There is a real step change (up) to be had by shopping around and 'preparing' to spend a bit more. Agree not in all cases does cost v performance, but I have found there are big gains to be had, that massively affect the final sound by focussing on the front end. Just like pre-amplifiers can affect the final sound, DACs can do that but more so. it isn't 'just digital' . The conversion, the digital board design, the lack of filtering, oversampling, power supply, output transformers, gain stage. Just like any amp design, things can change pretty radically in a DAC.

One of the best posts I have read on HeadFi. Since my return here after a LONG absence I still remain surprised how many do not recognize the importance of this statement. My primary listening is two channel (thus my absence from Headfi 2003-2017) and in my particular "world" of two channel - British HiFi Naim/Linn - the mantra has always been, and continues to be, SOURCE FIRST. When building out a two channel system the largest allocation of funds needs to go to the SOURCE. Get the best turntable, CD player, or digital player/steamer/DAC you can afford - and allocate the largest share of your funds there. It all starts with the source. If your source is not capable of EXTRACTING all of the music there is to get off of the vinyl record or digital file then one can buy the most expensive preamplifier, amplifier or speakers (ie headphone amplifier and headphone) and it will be for naught. What good is it if you are "missing" some of the music ie your source is not good enough to extract everything there is to get.

Get a turntable and mount several different cartridges going up the ladder. The lower tier cartridges simply cannot dig out and pick up from the grooves everything there is. So what is the point of then amplifying, and then reproducing via the speakers (or headphones), only 80% of the music. Spending more money on that final part of the chain, speaker or headphone, is then wasted if your source is leaving some of the music behind. You are just amplifying and reproducing only SOME of the music - not all of it.

Concentrate first on extracting as much as possible of what is in the grooves - ie more budget to the source. Then follow with amplification and speakers/headphones. Its all about budget allocation and how to divvy up the budget pie.

Just saying
(comments from the peanut gallery cease)

 

[astrostar59]

Thanks buzz lulu. In my opinion top HPs like the 009, LCD4, Abyss, can be comparable to 50K+ speakers, possibly even better.
And as such can scale just like a system at those levels. Just because the 009 costs say 4k can make us forget how good a source it really needs to sound at the top of it's performance.
Obviously there are exceptional DAC that outperform there respective price brackets, but generally speaking......

 

[urs]

Buzzlulu & Astrostar59


“Source First” - Thanks for reiterating this simple, but eternal truth, for top class audio !

Especially in our modern world, where everyone thinks that squeezing a few bits & bytes through some electronic device will automatically create a musically satisfying experience in the end.

My preferred source is still – and will remain so for quite some time ! – Vinyl, supplemented with FM-Radio (which will die a sudden, but predictable death, here in Switzerland shortly , I’m afraid to say) .
Even my CD player had the reputation of being one of the “most-analog-sounding” (?!?!) CD players !! - it’s a NAIM btw.

An excellent analog front end (or as near possible !!), and whenever possible a vacuum tube chain in between , is the way I like to listen to my STAX Phones.
And IF indeed the 009S will reveal the musical treasures on my records just a tad better, I won’t hesitate to get one ; I'm waiting for the message from my dealer as soon as he gets one


Regards


Urs

PS: Is it just some cynical twist of fate, that both NAIM and LINN - former hard-core analog-supporters (LP 12 !!) - are now leading brands in the digital audio world ? – But AFAIK on an absolutely top level. (and both did - or still do - create their own recordings, now in very high-resolution)

 

[buzzlulu]

Buzzlulu & Astrostar59
“Source First” - Thanks for reiterating this simple, but eternal truth, for top class audio !
Regards
Urs

PS: Is it just some cynical twist of fate, that both NAIM and LINN - former hard-core analog-supporters (LP 12 !!) - are now leading brands in the digital audio world ? – But AFAIK on an absolutely top level. (and both did - or still do - create their own recordings, now in very high-resolution)

Urs
You have FABULOUS taste in CD players! I made my way up the entire Naim lineup of CD spinners before I abandoned ship in 2007 when Linn announced they would cease production of CD players - perhaps the first high end manufacturer to take this bold step. I then became a "traitor" and abandoned my Naim spinner for a Linn DS. After all I needed a sibling to keep my LP12 company
(preamplification and amplification however remain Salisbury UK Naim through and through)

As for your quote above about Naim/Linn being leading brands in the digital audio world - this is part of the reason why I have recently embarked on my Stax journey. It seems that Naimee's have impeccable taste as STAX is held in the utmost of highest esteem. MANY Naim users have a pair of Stax headphones on the rack going way way back. Both companies appear to share a similar philosophy in music reproduction.

Who would have thought the Japanese knew how to do PRAT!

PS the Japanese also have impeccable taste - the LP12 has a lifelong cult following on that side of the Pacific!

 

[336881]

One of the best posts I have read on HeadFi. Since my return here after a LONG absence I still remain surprised how many do not recognize the importance of this statement. My primary listening is two channel (thus my absence from Headfi 2003-2017) and in my particular "world" of two channel - British HiFi Naim/Linn - the mantra has always been, and continues to be, SOURCE FIRST. When building out a two channel system the largest allocation of funds needs to go to the SOURCE. Get the best turntable, CD player, or digital player/steamer/DAC you can afford - and allocate the largest share of your funds there. It all starts with the source. If your source is not capable of EXTRACTING all of the music there is to get off of the vinyl record or digital file then one can buy the most expensive preamplifier, amplifier or speakers (ie headphone amplifier and headphone) and it will be for naught. What good is it if you are "missing" some of the music ie your source is not good enough to extract everything there is to get.

Get a turntable and mount several different cartridges going up the ladder. The lower tier cartridges simply cannot dig out and pick up from the grooves everything there is. So what is the point of then amplifying, and then reproducing via the speakers (or headphones), only 80% of the music. Spending more money on that final part of the chain, speaker or headphone, is then wasted if your source is leaving some of the music behind. You are just amplifying and reproducing only SOME of the music - not all of it.

Concentrate first on extracting as much as possible of what is in the grooves - ie more budget to the source. Then follow with amplification and speakers/headphones. Its all about budget allocation and how to divvy up the budget pie.

Just saying
(comments from the peanut gallery cease)

Naah. A GT2000 with a fidelity research tonearm or BL-91 with the heavy gold platter will suffice for speakers well into the 5 figure region. That is $2500 tops, add a $1k cart and phono pre and $4500. Dac's are ever changing and I actually liked a few $1-2k dac's more than a few $3-4k dac's. Total waste of money there spending more than $2k, whatever you buy will sell for only half of what you paid in just a year's time. CD players really depend on the dac you attach it to. I have seen really cheap cd players, like $100-200, sound marvelous when attached to the right dac. Tidal I was enamored with at first but now that I have enjoyed it the last 2 years I'm kinda bored with it. Unless I'm doing something wrong no Tool and the Peter Gabriel selection is doo doo. You think being all hifi P.G. is the first guy Tidal would lock down. Still waiting.

With records it is all about the recording itself, the record condition, how clean the record is, doing the math so that the cart. matches the tonearm and that matches the phono pre and alignment. Do those things and you really should not have to drain your bank account to get exceptional sound.

 

[Rhamnetin]

My reaction to this thread:

 

[mulveling]

Well I just enjoyed a hell of an awesome listening night with plain-old 009 + BHSE on vinyl. Unfortunately my 009S's channel imbalance appeared shortly after I tried it with vinyl, and I wasn't listening to particularly well recorded albums at that time, so I can't even gauge whether I'd prefer it over 009 on vinyl, and by how much. Really no sonic shortcomings on the 009/BHSE/vinyl set, though.

I've kept my speakers purely vinyl-sourced, and had been using headphones exclusively with digital, but now with a nice 2nd turntable I'm thinking of switching to mostly vinyl for headphones too. No groove noise issues here (lots of meticulous cleaning; I enjoy it now). Digital can suck it! I've been hitting DiscOgs hard, filling out my LP collection. There's not much patience in me left to deal with digital and software and its quirks on a daily basis

 

[336881]

Well I just enjoyed a hell of an awesome listening night with plain-old 009 + BHSE on vinyl. Unfortunately my 009S's channel imbalance appeared shortly after I tried it with vinyl, and I wasn't listening to particularly well recorded albums at that time, so I can't even gauge whether I'd prefer it over 009 on vinyl, and by how much. Really no sonic shortcomings on the 009/BHSE/vinyl set, though.

I've kept my speakers purely vinyl-sourced, and had been using headphones exclusively with digital, but now with a nice 2nd turntable I'm thinking of switching to mostly vinyl for headphones too. No groove noise issues here (lots of meticulous cleaning; I enjoy it now). Digital can suck it! I've been hitting DiscOgs hard, filling out my LP collection. There's not much patience in me left to deal with digital and software and its quirks on a daily basis

Getting kind of tired of Tidal as well? Anymore I find myself using Youtube more than Tidal for music. $20 a month does not sound like much but in just the 2 years I have been a subscriber I could have gotten a nice piece of gear or several records or cd's. I think I'm going to cancel my subscription.

Anyone else been there done that with Tidal and found something they like better?