Stax and HD650/Solo headamp

Jun 27, 2004 at 11:10 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

Laglaph

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I have been under pressure form my family to get some headphones so I can list to jazz without "inflicting" it on them. So after much desktop research (including reading loads of postings here and other forums) I drew up a short list. Namely Stax signature and Sennheiser HD650 with a headamp the Graham Slee Solo with the dedicated power supply.

I had listened to the HD650 before via the headphone jack on my Nakamichi tape deck and while they sounded OK I felt there was a great deal more to be heard.

So then I arranged to list to the Stax and the HD650/Solo (which involved coordinating loans/sale return from 3 different dealers at once) Firstly the Stax. These are a great set of phones they deliver a very detailed musical sound with a spaciousness that feels really good. However for me the upper mid range became more forward as they burned in. While I had these on loan the dealer rang me and offered me a pair of Omega 2's at a really good price (£2K). As these had been one of these "if I win the lottery" items I decided I must have a list even if I (most likely) would not buy them.

On listening to the Omega 2's they were very similar initially to the Signatures, as you would expect. However everything the Signatures did well the Omegas went further. The base is wonderfully deep, accurate and musical, mid range finely balanced and a sweet top. No sign of the forward upper mid range of the Signatures. Very comfortable to wear. Very spacious sound stage. Yes I would say all the hype is true a really excellent set of phones, some may find the sound too relaxed, to me though that was that they were not "pushing" the sound at me. This push may be liked by those into heavy metal etc but for jazz, classical, vocals the effortless sound of the Omegas is excellent.

About 2 weeks before I had to either send the Stax back or keep them I received the Solo head amp from Graham Slee. I quickly got hold of a pair of Sennheiser HD650's and started the long burn in the Solo's need. I left them a week before any critcal listening. I did have a "peek" and the combo HD650/Solo sounded very promising out of the box a lot better than the HD650's on their own.

After a week I started to compare the HD650/Solo and the Omega's (I had decided the forward upper mid range of the Signatures would not work for me with the type of music I listen to) The HD650/Solo sounded very detailed, just as detailed as the Omegas, if there was a difference may be the solo is a fraction more detailed in the base, but it may simply be they way the sound is presented. The mid range and top end of the HD650/Solo is all there just a detailed as the Omegas with no area forward or recessed. The Omegas sound stage was still better, wider, with more separation between instruments where as the HD650/Solo presented a much more restricted sound stage. The Omegas create a sound stage that appears to be outside my head (I found this effect only works with my eye shut so any visually clues are removed) the HD650/Solo sounded within my head. However I found that by careful placement of the HD650's I could get them to sound almost as spacious as the Omegas. You place the HD650's so the top rear quarter of the ear cup is place up against the top rear quarter of the ear, you bring the phones down and push them forward, then open up the phones at the front so the pressure is as fully of the front as you can get it.


So suddenly I start to think my ears have stopped working properly. Here I have my fantasy head phones sounding only slightly better than a phone/amp combo costing 1/3 as much. I really wanted to Omegas to sound better. But the more I listened to the HD650/Solo the better it sounded. So I got my wife to help. She has an amazing ear for music. She can hear a piece once and instantly recall it if she hears a snippet of it years latter. She thought the Omegas were much better until I showed her how to adjust the HD650's position and then she agreed they sound so close as to be down to minor differences.

So in the end a surprise but a very good one, which saved me, a great deal of money (£700 vs. £2000). On reflection the cost difference is due to what I call channel costs and nothing to do with the value of the product. Outside Japan there are additional costs and profits added to the sale price that add no value to the Omegas so the value equation is severely jeopardised. If the Omegas were around the same price may be 25% at the most more than the HD650/Solo I may have gone for them but them if I’m honest that would have been desire of the heart not logic of the head, who knows.

So now I am the very happy owner of an HD650/Solo combo which sounds stunningly good. What Graham Slee's developed is a fantastic amp that transforms the HD650's enabling them to really sing. Adjust them right and you'll occasionally get up to see whose playing that instrument in the next room!
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 11:38 AM Post #2 of 17
Since my listening with the HD650 is done lying in bed it is easy for me to understand what you are talking about when positioning the phones. I lay back and let thepillow push the phones forward to the closest point behind my ears at the same time they push the back of the phones out a hair at the back and in towards the head at the front. What I get is a much larger soundstage that go's from outside each driver enclosure, from in front to behind my head.
Glad your happy withyour phones. If you want them to get even more detailed with better extention in both directions try thr www.zucable.com Zu mobius headphone cable upgrade for them.
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Jun 27, 2004 at 11:39 AM Post #3 of 17
Congrats on a great headphone/amp combo! And welcome to Head-Fi!
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Jun 27, 2004 at 12:55 PM Post #5 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurui
Just curious, what amp did you use with your stax?


I'd like to know that too, also get a nice cable for your HD 650, they make a big difference.
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 1:08 PM Post #6 of 17
What a coincidence. I used a Solo for a while with the HD650 I was borrowing. All I can assume is that you didn't make the same effort to adjust your Omegas as you did the HD650, or maybe your source doesn't give an improvement beyond the HD650.


As flawed as I find the Omegas, the longer I listen to these the more reasons I can find to keep them, but the wish for a decent dynamic for a change of flavour is always there though. In absolute terms they seemed to be quite a bit better than the HD650/Solo combination can rustle up, and the more I listened, the more this seemed to be the case. But this is dependent on the source. If it is a low-end or simply bad source you're using, your money's best spent the way you went.


However, it's entirely fair to say the laws of diminishing returns do start to kick in with a more logarithmic curve just above the HD650 price. You want returns at those levels, you have to be prepared to make corresponding investments in source and amp (and those items will have the same diminishing return issues in turn) and really want those improvements bad. But, it's also entirely fair to say that while I'm sure that the many people assemble expensive bits of gear and are happy when it simply does the job, euphony achieved at these levels can easily rise above anything else out there regardless of the law of diminishing returns.
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 2:30 PM Post #7 of 17
bangraman, Although I have not heard the O2. I will state that I have been using the HD650/Zu with either a $4K or mainly a $9K CDP, with occasionally using one of two $2K players with it.
Rega Jupiter
Meridian 508.24
cary 306/200
Audio Aero Capitole MKII
I have found these phones amazing at rising the bar everytime the source and or amp gets better. I don't think the source would have as much to do with telling the differences between these two phones as the phones themselves.
The general advantages(or disadvantages) of either phone would still come through.
I guess what I'm saying is....If I can notice a huge improvment between a $4K-$9K player with the senns. How much higher end player would it take before the O2 would start to seperate itself from them?
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 2:56 PM Post #8 of 17
It's not megabucks sources I'm talking about. The O2 will separate itself from the HD650 with a $1.5K source, let alone a $4K source. Current $9K sources? I've not owned / auditioned at length such a source, let alone sources so I can't comment.
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 3:26 PM Post #9 of 17
I prefer the Sennheisers to the Omegas also, based on my brief listen to the Omegas. I don't know whether this would change if I listened to the Omegas for a longer period of time, but I owned a Stax 4040 setup for a while and compared it to the Sennheisers with the result being I prefered the Sennheisers. The Stax are very accurate, with amazing delicasy and clarity but the Sennheisers are almost as detailed with more viceral bass, dynamics and an overall more musical sound.
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[size=xx-small]Edit:[/size] Typo city.
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 3:37 PM Post #10 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hajime
I prefer the Sennheisers to the Omegas also, based on my brief listen to the Omegas. I don't know whether this would change if I listened to the Omegas for a longer period of time, but I owned a Stax 4040 setup for a while and compared it to the Sennheisers with the result being I prefered the Sennheisers. The Stax are very accurate, with amazing delicasy and clarity but the Sennheisers are almost as detailed with more viceral bass, dynamics and an overall more musical sound.
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[size=xx-small]Edit:[/size] Typo city.



That was my impression when I auditioned the 3030 system compared to the HD650. With my amp I actually thought the HD650 was more detailed than the 3030 system. I would however like to hear the O2/KGSS. I'm sure its a huge leap over the 3030.
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 5:46 PM Post #11 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins
That was my impression when I auditioned the 3030 system compared to the HD650. With my amp I actually thought the HD650 was more detailed than the 3030 system. I would however like to hear the O2/KGSS. I'm sure its a huge leap over the 3030.


Well, I was using the MPX-3 whereas you were using the incredible SDS. I'm sure I would have heard a lot more detail with the SDS. I wish I had an Emmeline HR-2 on hand at that time to compare with the Stax setup. The Emmeline/HD600 setup sounded nicer to me than the Omega2/KGSS setup at the Chicago meet.

[size=xx-small]Edit:[/size] Please consider that I only heard the Omegas for a few minutes and I had previously owned the Sennheisers/Emmeline.
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 8:19 PM Post #12 of 17
The Stax does have it's own signature sound that I just can't get over. (I do like Stax by the way.) I just can't live with it without having to supplement it with some dynamic cans. On the other hand, I can live with my Senns (with a good amp/source) and not think about Stax at all. Of course this is down to personal preferences. At this level, I don't think one is outright better than the other, no matter what the Stax Mafia enforcers say
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Jun 27, 2004 at 8:49 PM Post #13 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by darkclouds
The Stax does have it's own signature sound that I just can't get over. (I do like Stax by the way.) I just can't live with it without having to supplement it with some dynamic cans. On the other hand, I can live with my Senns (with a good amp/source) and not think about Stax at all. Of course this is down to personal preferences. At this level, I don't think one is outright better than the other, no matter what the Stax Mafia enforcers say
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Don't worry I am pretty sure the Stax Mafia is off on sunday. We are safe for the time being.
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Jun 27, 2004 at 8:57 PM Post #14 of 17
For me it was the other way around, well sort of. I could live without both, but the Senns would have to go first. Anyway, decided to get one of my own after returning my friends. I've only listened to the HD650 for about 100 hours, which nevertheless is probably enough to make an informed decision.
 
Jun 27, 2004 at 9:55 PM Post #15 of 17
The Stax was great when I first got them. It's one of those super hyped pieces that everyone's Ooo'ing and Ahh'ing about. But after a few months, after all that excitement were off, I started to find faults. Nothing really stand out; they just don't have that bit of something that dynamic cans have. I'm not sure what it is and I can't put my finger on it. It's that same sonic signature that lets you know that you're listening to electrostats. And that is what I like and dislike about them. I hope that made some sense.
 

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