stax 2050 or little dot and 701s?

[doctorgeek]

Hi everyone, for roughly the same bucks I could buy a pair of "entry level" stax with the energizer or a pair of Senn 650s/ AKG 701s and a good tube amp like a Little Dot MkIII. Which will sound better for classical and jazz?
ta
luke

 

[jp11801]

I would go entry level stax

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

It depends on your preference in terms of sonic attributes. The HD650 + tube combo would have better bass and vocal qualities while the Stax would extend further and be more neutral and 'faster' on the top end.

If you're just starting out I would recommend the HD650 + Little Dot route for a few reasons. One is that the HD650 is a much more popular headphone on head-fi and should you have any questions about it in the future it is very easy to get advice, also most amps on the market are designed with the HD650 in mind so it is much easier to upgrade in the future. The Little Dot allows a huge range of tube rolling options to tailor the sound to your exact preference as well so that's another advantage versus the stax which is more hit-or-miss. The demand on the used market for either the HD650 and the Little Dot amp is also extremely high so even if you end up not liking the combo you can sell it quickly and for little or no loss, I doubt that is the case with Stax equipment which has a much smaller market.

- DoA

 

[aaron313]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy /img/forum/go_quote.gif It depends on your preference in terms of sonic attributes. The HD650 + tube combo would have better bass and vocal qualities while the Stax would extend further and be more neutral and 'faster' on the top end. If you're just starting out I would recommend the HD650 + Little Dot route for a few reasons. One is that the HD650 is a much more popular headphone on head-fi and should you have any questions about it in the future it is very easy to get advice, also most amps on the market are designed with the HD650 in mind so it is much easier to upgrade in the future. The Little Dot allows a huge range of tube rolling options to tailor the sound to your exact preference as well so that's another advantage versus the stax which is more hit-or-miss. The demand on the used market for either the HD650 and the Little Dot amp is also extremely high so even if you end up not liking the combo you can sell it quickly and for little or no loss, I doubt that is the case with Stax equipment which has a much smaller market. - DoA

There is no way the 650 could have better bass or vocals than the Stax. The 650 cannot come close to resolving as well as the Stax, with which vocals will be far more nuanced. As for bass, the quantity will be less, but the quality will be much higher; it will also go deeper. Also, the market for stats is quite good right now, so if the OP did not like his system, he could surely sell it with ease.

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

Obviously Stax fans feel very strongly about the brand, but it seems to me that if electrostatic headphones are cost effective in the lower to mid budget range then there ought to be more electrostatic headphones in production than there is now. I don't doubt the Omega2 sounds great though, but for $300 you'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding headphone than the HD650, 'stats or not.

 

[aaron313]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Obviously Stax fans feel very strongly about the brand, but it seems to me that if electrostatic headphones are cost effective in the lower to mid budget range then there ought to be more electrostatic headphones in production than there is now. I don't doubt the Omega2 sounds great though, but for $300 you'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding headphone than the HD650, 'stats or not.

Well, I got the SR-303 for around $300, exactly what I paid for the HD650. Hands down I'd take the 303 every time.

 

[tako_tsubo]

I had about two months with a HD600, I know its a different animal from the 650...from a friend of mine to try before taking the next upgrade. I used the hd600 with my pico , predator...which did sound very good, but lacking some upper mid detail and treble detail. I was able to get the HD600 to scale up by using the HP out from my Lavry DA10...but it still does not compare to the detail in these mids and highs that my "intro" Stax rig.has, The Largest easily noticeable improvement is with the PRAT..which is important in classical and jazz. Electrostatics just excel in speed and attack of sound. The HD650 again is a different HP and will scale well...but at what cost balancing and a more expensive amp. I have heard the k701 on more than one occ. and it just doesn't have the bass even a SR202 will have...in terms of refinement and control, and even slam.

 

[PWilson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tako_tsubo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have heard the k701 on more than one occ. and it just doesn't have the bass even a SR202 will have...in terms of refinement and control, and even slam.

The more time I spend with my K701's, the more I think that the talk of lack of bass is an amp/source issue and/or comparison with other phones that exaccerbate the lower midbass. While I don't claim the K701 have very prominent bass, it digs very deep, and I definitely call what I hear (feel) out of them as slam.

 

[shamu144]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaron313 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I got the SR-303 for around $300, exactly what I paid for the HD650. Hands down I'd take the 303 every time.

Well, I also own an SR-303 and HD650, but I am not able to give you a clear cut. By chance, I also own the Little Dot MKIII, and I have tried it together with the HD650.

I believe both set up will deliver a very very different sound. While the Stax set up will be light speed fast, with "apparently" infinite frequency response and pretty resolutive, as well as beeing trully neutral and nuanced, it might miss some weight in the sound and especially in its fantastic bass response (you will ear the bass but not feel them), giving the impression of an overall brigther/drier response. I very much prefer tubes myself for my Stax. I also feel the the Stax has a bigger soundtsage, though maybe not as focused as the HD650.

The combo LDMKIII + HD650 on the other side will definitely be darker, much slower than the Stax combo, but with also a nice extended frequency response (though not so "apparent" especially in the treble), good resolution (than can be dramatically increase with aftermarket cables and better driver tubes for the MKIII), more weight in the sound and definitely more slam in the bass response, though not more extended.

It is a very difficult choice indeed. Both have extremely pleasant and non fatiguing sound, though totally different. I guess to this point it is all personal preferences. Sorry for adding confusion

 

[tako_tsubo]

Didn't say that the k701 did not have bass...tho some who have tried it had that complaint, but I was comparing to my 303 and Lambda pro's. The bass goes deeper and is well controlled on the Stax. A criticism of electrostatics is often the lack of relative bass dynamics, but I have read that the 202 does pretty good and I can only extrapolate from my experiences. Dynamic bass and lower mids can also be "brought out" by the use of the SRD-7 pro transformers...even the Omega 007 can "slam" with the transformers and the proper amp and feel very close to the feel of the bass from my ultrasone's...which a k701 doesn't even get close to.

 

[aaron313]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shamu144 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, I also own an SR-303 and HD650, but I am not able to give you a clear cut. By chance, I also own the Little Dot MKIII, and I have tried it together with the HD650. I believe both set up will deliver a very very different sound. While the Stax set up will be light speed fast, with "apparently" infinite frequency response and pretty resolutive, as well as beeing trully neutral and nuanced, it might miss some weight in the sound and especially in its fantastic bass response (you will ear the bass but not feel them), giving the impression of an overall brigther/drier response. I very much prefer tubes myself for my Stax. I also feel the the Stax has a bigger soundtsage, though maybe not as focused as the HD650. The combo LDMKIII + HD650 on the other side will definitely be darker, much slower than the Stax combo, but with also a nice extended frequency response (though not so "apparent" especially in the treble), good resolution (than can be dramatically increase with aftermarket cables and better driver tubes for the MKIII), more weight in the sound and definitely more slam in the bass response, though not more extended. It is a very difficult choice indeed. Both have extremely pleasant and non fatiguing sound, though totally different. I guess to this point it is all personal preferences. Sorry for adding confusion

I agree with your observations, and I don't think you added any confusion. The thing for me is that my Stax setup is high-end, while HD650 + LD is not. But it's not necessarily a sound everybody would prefer. Still though, the Stax knocks me on my ass every time I listen to it, while it took balancing the 650 to knock me on my ass.

 

[krmathis]

Another vote for entry Level Stax.
Simply can't go much wrong with one..

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dept_of_Alchemy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Obviously Stax fans feel very strongly about the brand, but it seems to me that if electrostatic headphones are cost effective in the lower to mid budget range then there ought to be more electrostatic headphones in production than there is now. I don't doubt the Omega2 sounds great though, but for $300 you'd be hard pressed to find a better sounding headphone than the HD650, 'stats or not.

this is somewhat misleading as it uses observational 'data' not direct listening information.

By comparison I have a great balanced amp and balanced 650s and a cheap old stax rig (lambda pros and a srm mkll) and the sax keeps up pretty well. It is faster and offers greater detail but lacks body in the mids and slam. This is at the lower stax level. At the entry level amp for a 650 or 701 for that matter it would be no contest for me. Guitars out of the stax rig being sourced by vinyl is scary good.

I'll never get rig of my dynamic rig but the stax has it charms. The overriding reason that stax gear is not as popular has nothing to do with sound quality. It has everything to do with the nature of its technology. With dynamics you can buy an amp and rotate in countless headphones. When you make the choice to go with stats you are locked into essentially one brand or current headphones and a few rare Senns or a China made He Audio that while good still is working out the kinks. That is why stats are not as popular.

If I were to do it all over and start from scratch in 2004 I might go stats full on as a cheap rig can get you really far into sonic bliss. For what I have into my dynamic rig I could have one heck of a stat rig. These setups do not really shine in meet conditions as details are masked in the louder listening environment but given a quiet evening of listening and a stax rig can just wow you.

 

[fdhfdy]

I have little dot mk3 and K701 and thats only pair up I owned. It is warm, clean and engaging. no regrets for them~!