Starting Point Systems portable NOS DAC
Mar 11, 2015 at 6:31 PM Post #31 of 508
That's why I have so many headphones.  Now I'm starting a DAC collection, too...  Ouch.  
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Mar 12, 2015 at 9:12 PM Post #32 of 508
  Glad to hear it arrived safe and sound! I think this is a good introduction to what you'd normally expect from a NOS R/2R DAC, and it's priced well. The TDA1543 chip was a budget chip in the Philips lineup, so harmonic distortion is relatively high, and accuracy/linearity is not going to be the greatest (this ain't no Yggy). In these regards, it probably sits around or below the rumored chips used in the Metrum DACs, and Metrum has multiple of those per DAC (TDA1543 might also benefit from parallelization). I think it's safe to expect some limitations as such, but you can often find these for $175-250 depending on if you bid or buy. I think they're a good option at that price point. DACs using TDA1543 chips at higher price points make me a bit wary.
 
So, if you don't like a warm, smooth, slightly thick, and not very resolving sound signature, you may not like this DAC. If you haven't liked any NOS R/2R DAC you've tried or found them to have certain undesirable traits, this won't change your mind. I think it does very well with liquidity and general tone, despite being a touch thick and intimate sounding - perhaps more so than the Metrums, and is just downright enjoyable. Others are likely to disagree. I can't argue with what personally draws me into the music.
 
Burn-in might help improve the sound over time,for those of you that think that's possible. I do think it sounds best after warming up for a bit at least. I don't believe these chips are designed to be left on all the time, though, for longevity reasons. I'm also not sure how well it scales with better and better SPDIF sources, but that's a factor to consider as well.
 
I use mine with this PSU, which is supposedly linear (I can't verify): http://www.amazon.com/Super-Power-Supply%C2%AE-Transformer-5-5x2-1mm/dp/B00DHMCNOO/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1426029711&sr=8-7&keywords=linear+power+supply
 
This PSU might sound a bit cleaner than running it off the battery. Maybe. Likely fooling myself. Too slight to really tell.
 
One odd design choice, IMO, is that you have to leave both the "mains" and "battery" switches on while plugged in if you want to charge the batteries. Oh well, no biggie.
 
Looking forward to hearing more thoughts as you give it more time, especially directly compared to the Octave MkII.

how does this compare against your classe audio dac-1?
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 3:09 AM Post #33 of 508
The Classe DAC-1 was an entirely different beast. Completely overshadowed this 1543 DAC, but, unfortunately, the tone was drier than I'd like, despite it still being rather fleshed out and full bodied otherwise, and it was more on the aggressive side. Sounded amazing but wore on me. I sacrificed a lot with this 1543 DAC in most regards, but I find it more enjoyable long term and am using it as a stop gap currently. I'm in the minority for what works well for me and for odd reasons at times, so keep that in mind.
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 4:52 AM Post #34 of 508
  The Classe DAC-1 was an entirely different beast. Completely overshadowed this 1543 DAC, but, unfortunately, the tone was drier than I'd like, despite it still being rather fleshed out and full bodied otherwise, and it was more on the aggressive side. Sounded amazing but wore on me. I sacrificed a lot with this 1543 DAC in most regards, but I find it more enjoyable long term and am using it as a stop gap currently. I'm in the minority for what works well for me and for odd reasons at times, so keep that in mind.

 
I really respect the humility of that last sentence, above.  
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It brings to mind the question we should always ask ourselves:  Do I have the same tastes as the reviewer?  
 
It's hard to discern, but if you read an articulate reviewer long enough, you can figure out his likes and dislikes, and even start interpolating or mapping his comments to your own tastes. And when you find a guy who buys and sells a lot of gear (or who covers a lot of gear as a professional reviewer), who is also articulate and for whom you've got a good handle on what he likes, then (and only then) - in the absence of large consensus of opinion, which is often the case for exotic or rarely purchased gear (like The Battery DAC) - can you trust that you'll be content with that for which the reviewer is content.  For me, one such person is Head-Fi member FlySweep, but with my understanding that he likes a greater tolerance for less detail.  Another is Skylab, with the understanding that his tastes are identical to mine.
 
If you fall outside the majority consensus of opinion, which I don't, fortunately, you'll be buying and selling a lot more gear to find what's right for your tastes.
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 9:42 AM Post #36 of 508
I guess I will pass on this one then, but for the best of reasons.

The description of the SQ sounds identical to the sound of the HM-601LE (now, alas, discontinued). Despite having several more sophisticated and expensive DAPs, I always still seem to have the HM-601 in my carry-on luggage....
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 3:32 PM Post #37 of 508
The Classe DAC-1 was an entirely different beast. Completely overshadowed this 1543 DAC, but, unfortunately, the tone was drier than I'd like, despite it still being rather fleshed out and full bodied otherwise, and it was more on the aggressive side. Sounded amazing but wore on me. I sacrificed a lot with this 1543 DAC in most regards, but I find it more enjoyable long term and am using it as a stop gap currently. I'm in the minority for what works well for me and for odd reasons at times, so keep that in mind.


Thanks! figured that there would be a difference but how much was on my mind I heard that the untra analog dacs were warm so I was curious .
 
Mar 13, 2015 at 10:01 PM Post #38 of 508
new dac is here and sounds awesome.  had one issue, when I set jriver to wasapi, I had to manually change bit depth from automatic to 16 bit.  automatic was only giving me sound in the left channel.  16 bit and all is good.  So for this dac I have windows default format set to 16/44.1 is that what I should be using if I listen to music via spotify etc?  Or should I be setting it to 96KHz so everything that's not wasapi(jriver) gets resampled to 96KHz?
 
old dac compared to new dac

 
 
dac works with Jay's Audio 12v LPS!

 
Mar 14, 2015 at 1:27 AM Post #39 of 508
Some people like to upsample via software for NOS DACs. Lots of potential with different sounding upsampling filters, so worth playing around with. If you do, best to stick with multiples of the original sample rate.
 
Mar 14, 2015 at 2:34 AM Post #40 of 508
Been playing around with the dac more.. my monoprice short coax and toslink cable order hasn't arrived yet so I only have a super long toslink cable to use with the dac.. I think it's 25 or 30 feet long at least.. anyway the dac is definitely too warm and thick for me.. bass doesn't seem good with electronic music.. I'll try it again when I get my short toslink cable.. I wonder if it's my crappy motherboard toslink port that's hurting the sound.. my old dac works as a usb to toslink converter so I could try that out
 
Mar 14, 2015 at 11:13 PM Post #41 of 508
Usually is worth trying different sources and cables in these situations to be sure.
 
Mar 15, 2015 at 12:48 AM Post #42 of 508
I haven't written it off yet, also I just realized I have a cold
update: So I'm using my short 6' monoprice toslink cable now.. tried a couple of different headphones.. and unless my PC mobo toslink out is really bad or something.. I really don't like this dac at all.. the bass is so slow it's like it has built in reverb.. maybe I secretly am a lean and cold dac lover and didn't know it..
what other tests should I try with it.. I could use a different amp I guess or try the optical out from my blu-ray player
 
Mar 15, 2015 at 1:34 PM Post #43 of 508
You might not like the sound in the end. I don't think a lot of people will. But tbh the toslink out on your mobo probably isn't very good. My unit was bassier from my desktop even with an SPDIF converter. From a tablet on battery it cleaned up noticeably, and then a bit more with a Wyrd added. Same SPDIF converter. And I swear after many hours on it and given some warm up time it cleaned up even more below. All the NOS R2R DACs I've tried are source sensitive to some extent. I also don't prefer toslink over SPDIF coax in most situations. But ultimately this DAC is on the warm and thick side of the spectrum, just I dont think it should sound quite like you described, hence my guess on it being some what source related. My bet is that even if you saw gains from a better chain, that money would be better spent on a DAC more to your tastes. Then again, investing in a good source chain benefits any DAC, so it's worth it in the long run.
 
Mar 18, 2015 at 10:00 AM Post #44 of 508
  18 days later, it has arrived.  Joy!
 
(Updated the morning after arrival day)
 
(Updated two days in - with perhaps 6 hours of listening)
 
My first, very premature impression is that this is the best most enjoyable "transportable" rig I've ever had:
 

 
FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > The Battery DAC > iBasso PB2 w/LME49990 and dummy buffers, balanced out > HD800
 
I am amazed out how smooth the treble is with the HD800.  There is a slight significant slight loss of detail compared to the Metrum Octave MkII (a perception I've decided is primarily due to this NOS DAC's rolled off highs, with a bit of a veil in the lower frequencies, as well, compared to the oversampling DACs). But I still very much like the way it sounds with the HD800. It has a signature that makes the music fun (not necessarily accurate) and somewhat cartoonish (which sounds bad, but what I'm really saying is that it's the opposite of sterile and thin), yet still very believable - kind of like a tube DAC that has only desirable harmonic distortion.
 
I'm discovering, however, that it severely underutilizes the HD800's best trait - the ability to render a recording's weakest and smallest micro details that reside at the volume that is just above the noise floor.  All the low-energy signals are missing.  They are not masked by a high noise floor - they are just not revealed by this DAC - they are not there.  Those faint echos, trailing decays, and micro-textures that help to define the timbre of instruments and voices, to illustrate the sound stage and to improve imaging - all of that is missing.
 
It's not as black and white, all or nothing, as I'm making it out, but a quick A/B with my favorite oversampling DAC - the FiiO X5's PCM1792A - made this very obvious.  So much so that, given my apparent addiction to those micro-details, from so many hours of listening to the HD800 with higher resolving DACs, including my favorite DAC - the Metrum Octave MkII, I'm finding myself almost involuntarily turning up the volume to much higher levels than those at which I normally listen.  I've now realized that I'm doing that because I'm looking for something that's just not there.  With lower-distortion DACs and amps (like the Octave MkII and Aurix pairing), the HD800 allows me to enjoy my music at lower volumes than any other headphone I've owned - as long as the ambient noise in my environment is low enough.  I'm such a freak about hearing a recording's low-energy micro-details, that I will turn off my AC or heat, so that no air is rushing from a ceiling vent that's about ten feet away from my recliner.
 
In an attempt to quantify the loss of detail imposed by The Battery DAC relative to a good oversampling DAC, I could say that The Battery DAC turns the HD800 into a better HD650.  That "veil" of which the HD600 and HD650 are often accused (primarily by people who have the HD800), is draped upon the HD800 by this DAC.  The loss of detail imposed by The Battery DAC, really isn't any worse than that experienced when going from the HD800 to the HD650.  But the signature of the HD650 is also put upon the HD800 (a good thing, in my opinion) when using The Battery DAC, while retaining the HD800's sound stage.  
 
Also, thanks in part to its rolled off highs, The Battery DAC completely eliminates any hint of the fatigue-causing sibilance and treble edginess that the HD800 suffers with oversampling DACs used in combination with amps that employ a lot of local or global feedback.  The iBasso PB2 and OPPO HA-1, fed by your choice of oversampling DACs, suffer intolerable treble harshness with the finicky HD800.  And where the Metrum Octave MkII did wonders for satisfying the HD800 while still using amps that employ negative feedback in their design, it wasn't until I went to a low-feedback amp (the NuForce HA-200) and later, a zero-feedback amp (the Metrum Aurix), that I finally eliminated a residual, brittle edginess in the treble of the HD800.  
 
I'm mentioning all of this here, because I've now concluded that The Battery DAC, all by its self, is a "cure" for the HD800 - even with high feedback amps - if you can let go of some "air" and those micro-details that help so much with imaging - pushing the HD800 in the direction of an HD650 (ending up with a considerably better HD650 - and, in terms of frequency response, not "air" and detail, an HD800 that's more fun).
 
Again, with only about three hours of listening time, at this writing, all of this is premature, but I am also amazed at the bass energy, more so than the bass detail.  It's about the best most energetic bass I've heard with the HD800 - in the direction of the LCD-2 - far from it, but very satisfying.  OK, enough impressions for now - it's likely to improve with a few hours on it.
 
In short, I like it!  Really, I do!  But more as a way of just enjoying music - for which I cherish this little DAC - because I tend to analyze music rather than simply enjoy it.  This DAC throws up a big road block to that part of my brain that wants to dissect every song like a dead frog pinned to a cutting board in a high school biology class. I have no choice but to let go of that tendency, where normally, I admit it's a struggle to just listen to the content instead of listening to the reproduction of the content.  THAT'S what I like about this DAC - it has me suffering withdrawals from my addiction to fine detail, but it also has me in awe of the very thing that I most like about my first and only other NOS DAC, the Octave MkII.
 

 
Mike

 
 
Having had The Battery DAC for a week, now, I'm going to keep this really short - OK, not so short - and say that for my tastes, for use with high-feedback amps, like the OPPO HA-1, my DACmini CX amp section, my Meier Audio Stepdance and iBasso PB2 portable amps - when used with the HD800, I prefer this little TDA1453 DAC to the PCM1792A (oversampling) DAC that's in my FiiO X5 (which is saying a lot, because it's my favorite oversampling DAC), and I much prefer The Battery DAC to any ESS9023, ESS9018, or CEntrance DAC with the HD800, including my DACport LX and the DAC sections of my OPPO HA-1 and CEntrance DACmini CX - again, with emphasis - for use with the HD800.  For the LCD-2 rev.1 or OPPO PM-1, I prefer the oversampling DACs, with the FiiO X5's PCM1792A trumping them all.
 
All that said, excluding the Metrum Octave MkII, which beats every other DAC I have, including this TDA1453 DAC (by a long shot), with any amp and headphone combination, I'm quite certain that if I want to go "transportable" with the HD800, I'll use this chain over anything else I can muster from my inventory:
 
FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > The Battery DAC > iBasso PB2 (rolling in JRC Muses 02 and HA5002 buffers), balanced out > HD800
 
And I'll add that anyone struggling to find an "affordable" solution for the analytical, sometimes sibilant or brittle treble and weak bass of the HD800, should try dropping one of these Battery DACs in front of their choice of affordable amps, whether portable or desktop, and whether low- or zero-feedback or not.
 
The Metrum Octave MkII > Aurix > HD800 is still a much superior experience - supplying the HD800 with what it wants (to avoid its pitfalls), while not compromising any of its strengths.
 
UPDATE:  Keep in mind that the praise I'm giving The Battery DAC is confined to how it can deal with the HD800's finicky nature.  I'm not nearly as excited about The Battery DAC for use with other headphones and even with the HD800, it's a solution that compromises some of the HD800's greatest strengths (resolution and "air") while masking the problems that can be caused by high-feedback amps (not to mention by oversampling DACs).  In other words, the bolded chain I've referenced above as my favorite portable HD800 rig, is the "wrong" approach for satisfying an HD800 - just as cheap tube amps, like the Schiit Valhalla 2 or the hybrid Vali are "adequate" and most definitely affordable solutions for the HD800, but they corrupt as much as they cure.  Think of The Battery DAC as a solid state (and portable) solution for the HD800 that's in the same class as the cheap tube amps.  
 
Unlike the Metrum Octave MkII > Aurix, which provide the HD800 with a signal that's ideal for its requirements, my new HD800 portable solution is brutish in comparison, with its coloration, rolled off highs, and "desirable" harmonic distortions robbing the HD800 of some of its best traits while also "fixing" the problems for which the HD800 is infamous - it, too, both corrupts and cures the HD800.  In the end, the results are very pleasing and guaranteed to put a smile on your face - it does mine - allowing me to really connect with the music, but if you've ever heard an HD800 being all that it can be, you just have to forget that you're wearing the HD800 and enjoy the sound for what it is.
 
Mike
 
Mar 23, 2015 at 3:51 AM Post #45 of 508
Just like to jump in and ask would this NOS DAC pair well with Fostex Tx0-RP with a Cayin C5 in there amping at first and a Gustard H10 later ?
I guess it would not be a good match with the dark and thick LCD 2.1's...but unsure how long I'll have the 2.1's and maybe sample the EL-8's for a while....
I'm off the Sabre train as they have the resolution/detail/transparancy but it does not hinge into musicality like these older DAC chips IMO....Sabre stuff keeps me in analysis mode vs immersion in the music...;-(
 
Had also been looking at the HRT Microstreamer (TI DAC chip ?) which might bridge the Fostex Tx0-RP and LCD 2.1 styles......
 

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