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Starting Point Systems portable NOS DAC

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by cjg888, Mar 12, 2014.
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  1. Jimster480
    I'm sorry but there is no such thing as "treating".
    Vibrations and EMI are not even real things in modern day electronics.
    Most EMI has been phased out over the last years with modern chips that are natively resistant to it.
    Vibrations are what? You mean the speakers themselves vibrating? There are many things which you can use to isolate speakers so this could make a difference depending on what speakers you use and where they are positioned.

    You just keep spreading this false information around with these crystals and nonsense almost in a way that sounds like marketing.
  2. richard51
    I only speaks of my own experience with low cost products i am not marketting anything..... And if you dont know why audiophile company sell with great success costly power supply for example, if you dont know that any piece of gear vibrate by the collective interacting resonance of all the pieces that constitue it, be it power supply, speakers, dac , amplifier, etc , if you dont know that all serious audio company that sells TOTL gear adress this problem each with different damping methods and approaches, if you dont know that already, use google....

    For me i know that by my own experiments with many methods in the last year, i leave faith to those that have definitive or dogmatics opinions....Before accusing someone, thinks please; if not, read with google; if not, try simple experiment : put,for this few bucks experiment, 2 pieces of quartz on the central electrical panel of your house,listen after that to your speakers and call it a day.......
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  3. gvl2016
    I just flip the dac upside down, works just as good if not better than crystals.
  4. Jimster480
    I do think and research. I use scientific approaches.

    Nowhere do stones affect electrical imulses and braiding cables with stones doesn't improve audio quality or do any other sort of magic.
  5. richard51
    It is not about accepted theory, nor opinions, it is about simple experiment : to put a quartz, or a piece or 2, of agate, on top of the central electrical panel of your audio room... Arguing about known theory has nothing to do with the perception of the quality of your music experience....This is philosophy of science 101 and about audio hobby satisfaction and about investigation that takes a minute and 3 dollars to infirm or confirm...I will not add anything... You do not hear what i speak about because you dont want, experimenting simple thing is the beginning of all... The rest is opinions,not science, even if the opinion is an extract of Maxwell theory, science is ALWAYS in the making,not there for dogmas about listening experience....And here we dont make discourse about what scientist can explain or not, we listen to music, hoping to make our listening experience better with low cost experiment if possible; myself i have only explored many ways to damp the audio system from head to tail,simple as that... By the way there is a difference between measuring something with an apparatus and using human ears, there is more in nature than in books... I am tired of arguing about so simple things and so easy simple experiment, i have only described here my experience with my system for the sake of my review of this dac,hence it was necessary to specify my context of listening, it is only that nothing more, certainly not arguing for the sake of arguing, you can go on with it if you like that....Best regards ...We go back to the french dac nos experience...

    I am in thruth very pleased with this dac2 experience, but it is way better with a a lithium battery 16 volt, because the dac is put off the grid, hence the level of noise, the dynamic, the sound holographic presence are way better.... I will not go back to a cheap 12 volt power supply now, the sound is congested with that.... For the sake of experimenting, perhaps i must try a 16 volt power supply , if rightly damped perhaps the result will catch with the 16 volt external battery, and perhaps will be better, but i doubt it....But for now with the external battery 16 volt all is on another lever than with the 12 volt power supply, or with the same battery adjust to 12 volt....This is my point in my damped system...
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  6. Jimster480
    Yes what I am saying that with audio the placebo affect is very real. People often believe that something will sound better because they have done something to make it sound better and they are sure of it.

    As far as it sounding better with a battery, this is just due to the power being linear vs switched.
    You could just get a linear power supply, crystals and other stones do not make power supplies linear nor do they clean power.
    Vibrations are not real things for electronic components.
  7. earwego
    I mentioned earlier that Vertex marketed a DAC with just the one TDA1543 installed - for a hefty price of over £10,000 - the money was spent in the power supply, EMI, RFI and VIBRATION control - like you are doing with Crystals (amazingly enough - how to quartz crystals control all that stuff anyways?).

    Vertex also sell supports that somehow ground the vibration away from the equipment. A friend of mine owns Vertex supports - and when he moved house he didn't put the supports back in place and noticed how much more muddy sounding things were - the Vertex had to go back in.
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    richard51 likes this.
  8. Jimster480
    That is superstitious nonsense.
    A single one of those garbage 1543s... Means that the DAC will sound like utter trash with no detail retrieval at all.
    Those old ladder DACs are using 70s (garbage) technology and this is why they have been abondoned.
    You can do okay with using multiples of them per channel to atleast stand up to a cheap DS DAC but otherwise there is no comparison.
    The only reason people like it at all is due to the warm sound it makes.
  9. richard51
    For sure i dont claim that my use of different damping methods and filtering of EMI is on par with this very TOTL technology, but with ridiculous dollars investment, it is possible to have an extraordinary upgrading effect at low cost, controlling and implementing some simple means to eliminate part of the noise that swarm all system, without violating Maxwell equation for sure...:ksc75smile: Separating the dac from the general electrical grid is first necessity .... Thanks for this interesting remark...

    And no, i dont think that intelligent people market a 10,000 pounds product that were utterly garbage...Perhaps not the best dac in the world, but naming that ,without listening to it , a garbage product, is very interesting and say more on the source of the opinion than about the product himself....
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
  10. Jimster480
    I checked out this Joke Vertex brand, their nonsense is so apparent.
    Even their "design" with "acoustic labyrinths" is just laughable. Clearly the whole brand and everything associated with it is a total scam.
  11. richard51
    I respect your "cheking out" and perhaps you are right, but without listening to it, it is only and essentially an opinion.... if by chance and studies you were the better designer of dac of America, that will be an opinion to pound over, and even that, that will be only "perhaps" only an educated opinion, but perhaps not an objective one, especially if you have never listen to it....
  12. Jimster480
    Some things you don't need to listen to.
    Technical specs are technical specs, the technical specs are not even posted because they are so trash.
    Everything about it reeks of a scam.
    No reputable websites review it, they don't have anything real to say.
    The price is 11k but no sites actually sell it you have to call the scammers directly for them to con you further.
    They are using 1970s DAC chip technology on a chip that has high noise, high distortion and poor detail resolution compared to much cheaper alternatives today.

    Additionally the 1543 is literally the economy chip, I would agree that it can compete with some other $40 products (although that is tough because its NOS and uses ancient chips) but not anything above that.
    The technology is horrible and the DAC that this thread is for (Starting point systems) is far superior to this vertex nonsense.
  13. richard51
    Like i said you are perhaps right and your opinion is an interesting counter point....But the reason for the suggestion of this product was not is 1543 tda technology, but the fact that damping and isolating the dac from the grid is perhaps a good idea, and according to Earwego, i was not the only one to advocate that....This is the point that Earwego was making.... Nobody has listen to it here,hence all is opinions, even your saying is only an opinion, but isolating a dac from the grid and damping it, that is the point of my argument, and the point you attack me for and the reason for which Earwego speak about this product as an example of an audio philosophy ....But perhaps you are right about this particular product, i dont know, and frankly you dont know yourself for sure, listening some product is a good ethic for defending an opinion....And i am with you about that, damping and isolating a dac does not makes it the better dac ipso facto....But damping and isolating were cheap cost method necessary to implement for upgrading any gear.... That is my opinion and EXPERIENCE....
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2017
  14. Jimster480
    Yes but when it comes down to science the numbers don't lie.
    Look at Audio-GD, they are well known and build R2R DAC's but don't claim them to be magic.
    They have alot of isolation resistors, power couplings, and other things to give you the best signal.
    But even their masterful products based on real engineering are not $11000 and same with Soekris which is another Ladder DAC company that has their own technology.
    These guys are using precision film transistors with Xlinx FPGA's to make incredible resolutions of sound.
  15. richard51
    I am ok with what you say and i think that your are perhaps right .... i dont like the 11.000 dollars price....But i have not listen to either....My experience is buying not too costly but good product and manage the different sources of noise, the results for me were astounding at low cost... This is my only experience, and the only fact i was suggesting here...
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
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