1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.

    Dismiss Notice

Starting Point Systems portable NOS DAC

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by cjg888, Mar 12, 2014.
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
  1. gvl2016
    Does it stay ON when you press the power button with USB and external PSU disconnected? If so batteries aren't completely dead, mine won't stay on for more than 20 seconds on batteries alone (batteries are giving up apparently) but still works fine when powered from USB or external PSU. One issue I had I just couldn't get it to work with one of my computers when connected directly but it worked just fine when I added a USB hub in between. But given yours doesn't even work over optical, sounds like it is indeed a dud?
    kukkurovaca likes this.
  2. richard51
    Perhaps it is oversampling dac that fool us about details....The nos dac for me is truer to the musical real-life sound.... And i must say that in my complety damped system, with sorbothane, cork,bamboo plates, concrete load etc with Fo.Q tape on all cables, and stones and crystals on all pieces, the sound of my first nos dac crush my oversamplig dac, and this dac was a good one....
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  3. Jimster480
    I don't I don't think it is the case. Both approaches come out with the same result at the end of the day.

    An oversampling DAC that uses a Delta Sigma Style Converter does not lose details versus a non upsampling version. The difference is that I known of sampling DAC will have other artifacts and possibly sound more like an old-school recording due to the interferences that used to exist in recordings.

    There is no scientific evidence to show that a multi-bit non upsampling DAC can reveal any details that and oversampling DAC can not. Especially in modern times when all analog-to-digital converters also known as ADC are Delta Sigma type.

    Therefore, there is no additional data that the Delta Sigma would not be able to resolve.
  4. gvl2016
    I can't decide either way. I think the truth is in the middle when playing 44.kHz/16bit, mild 2x oversampling tends to make some material sound cleaner on NOS DACs. NOS is definitely more moving and easier on my ears. I think the ultimate solution is hi-sampled/hi-res material played on NOS multi-bit DACs.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  5. rikk009
    SPS DAC3 is probably best I have heard under $200 but a friend has got Soekris and his experience with DACs is much better than mine and his words "Best DAC I have ever had".

    Edit: I would also like to add that. DAC3 is very smooth and clean but probably too smooth specially in treble, hence lacking in details. From memory I can say, it's like listening music on cassette. Soekris might fill in where DAC3 lacks.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
  6. richard51
    I have already an excellent upsampling delta sigma dac , the beresford bushmaster mkIII, and compared to it the dac2 of christophe Mariac has the same level of details but with another more realistic presentation of the sound... I am almost certain that your description of your experience are the results of an undamped system, the treble is indeed very smooth but not lacking details....I can say that this dac is like listening music in the real world more than through an electronic system....In fact with this nos dac i have better than only details, i have which i have never had with my ds dac, a 3-d natural presence of each instrument in his own space, imaging is way better.... I dont have this kind of details that many people called planktons on a almost 2-d plane of sound, i have a way more holographic rendering of the orchestra or of jazz instruments...It is not sound that burst at you, it is music that flows...

    If all my systems were not rightly damped, with sorbothane , bamboo, granite, cork and concrete load, with Fo.Q tape for all cables, and with crystals and stones for cleaning EMI all the way down from the electrical panel to the headphones, i have no doubt that my experience with this dac would be the exact same one as you : too smooth to convey details and almost muddle mids....But now this is absolutely not my experience, not with my speakers, neither with my headphones...The difference is they are all damped, hence the potential of this dac can manifest....
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2017
    Sapientiam likes this.
  7. rikk009
    Not relevant since I use only headphones. And this opinion is shared by many over years not just me. R2R DACs have rolled off treble, that's their property specially the old chips. Even the famous and old Metrum DACs shared the same property. But from what I hear about new chips they don't have roll off.

    P.S> DACs are matter of taste, I just posted this for those who don't have the DAC and come here looking for suggestion.
    Jimster480 likes this.
  8. richard51
    I dont want to contradict your point , you are right in a certain context like you said with other people....My point is all system must be damped, even with headphones, and high frequencies non-roll off planktons is not 3-d imaging .... In my system this dac give me a way better musical imaging, and this is not taste but a fact.... Damping is not a matter of taste either.... But i only say all that for the sake of discussion and i appreciate all opinions .... Thanks very much for yours.... My best regards...
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  9. gvl2016
    NOS DACs typically don't use reconstructing filters these days as they do more harm than good, and without such a filter the roll-off is an inherent property of NOS, new chip or old, as there is just not enough samples to fully express higher frequencies when playing red-book material. A better R2R implementation may have a lesser perceived treble roll-off due to better linearity at low signal levels where high-frequencies typically are, but the roll-off is still there.
    Jimster480 likes this.
  10. rikk009
    Yes. But older chips smooth out the whole frequency range as per my view. Yet to taste some more recent R2Rs, but the reviews never mention lack of detail for say Schiit multibit DACs.
  11. gvl2016
    That's because Schiit multibit DACs are oversampling R2R designs, they are not NOS up to 176kHz. There is a DSP chip in front of the R2R DAC chip that runs their "burrito" filter and upsamples the signal to 176/192kHz. There is no such filter in the DAC-3. NOS and R2R aren't synonyms.
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
    richard51 and jimmers like this.
  12. richard51

    I drive this dac with a 16 volt lithium battery and that make a big difference with a 12 volt wall wart power supply.... This dac2 takes 100 hours to stabilize after break-in....It sound so good and details are on the same level than my Bushmaster....The naturalness and better imaging holographic quality mades me question the upgraditing value of a so called better one at a much, much, higher price...:beerchug:
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
    Haden2866 likes this.
  13. Jimster480
    Yes as specified by Audio-GD Chips like the TDA1547 provide low qualities, especially when used in series vs parallel.
    This leads to a high THD and some loss of detail vs standard DS designs.

    Also even Audio-GD doesn't recommend NOS options even if some people like the sound as they find that sound comes out the best at 8x over-sampling I think they said.
    rikk009 likes this.
  14. rikk009
    I was not saying one is good or bad. Was just stating the fact for those who come here looking for impressions. Personally, I enjoyed how clean and smooth it sounded and the bass was again not SS level layered but huge impact. At $200 or less this DAC is one of the best I have heard but not for detail seekers. Paired with a slightly hotter treble amp it balances good, this thing makes other SS DACs in the category feel rough and harsh. Not going to argue any more what other feels or how their other DACs compare, to each his own.

    Btw, I have sold my DAC(which I am bit regretting) for something else.
  15. richard51
    update2 :

    I realize that the enormous difference i perceive between using a 12 volt power supply and using a lithium ion 12 volt battery to drive it, this difference depend on how my system gear can deliver it in an audible way, if my system was not treated for vibrations and EMI,probably i would not have detect a so big differences....And there is also a very audible difference if you drive this battery with a16 volt output battery or a 12 volt one battery, (Christophe Mariac, the original designer recommend 15-16 volt optimally for this dac).... Many people have reviewed this dac, with a non treated system,and this dac in a noisy system does not sound with so much details indeed...And remember that before 30 hours of break-in the sound is not optimal at all.... It takes 100 hours of use in fact to sound at his peak working...This dac crush my excellent Bushmaster MKII to pieces...Before upgrading to thousand dollars dac, i think people must treat their system for vibration noise and EMI .... I advise that because NOBODY in all these forums advise for that like a priority, this priority must come way before upgrading the good gear you already own for way costlier one, especially the dac...I dont doubt that they are better dac than this starting systems point dac2 i own, but at what price? In my experience the greatest low cost upgrading way is not to buy new gear, but to treat first what you already own....:ksc75smile:
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2017
5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Share This Page