[logip]

Hello,
 
I'm having a slight problem with deciding what to get.
 
I have two setups: One at work and one at home.
 
Work: Shure 1540 and Ibasso DX80
Home: Fostex TH-X00 Ebony, G109A amp and the same DX80 as at work. I use the line out from the DX80 to the amp.
 
I keep forgetting the DAP at work or home and want to keep it at work (I real first world problem, I know).
 
Would it be a good idea to use my phone as source with the Modi Multibit?
 
Home would then be: Phone -> usb -> Modi Multibit -> G109A -> TH-X00
 
Or would it be a better idea to get a Fiio X5 gen 3 or Ibasso DX120 (if it will ever come out) and use that instead?
Is it a good idea do use your phone as transport?
Is there a great difference between a line out from a good DAP and a standalone DAC?
 
Any input appreciated.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Would it be a good idea to use my phone as source with the Modi Multibit?
 
Home would then be: Phone -> usb -> Modi Multibit -> G109A -> TH-X00
 
Is it a good idea do use your phone as transport?

 

Why not when,

1. Android/iOS interface is good.

2. Most Androids have local storage via microSD

3. Android and iOS have access to streaming services

4. NeutronMusicPlayer has a parametric EQ and variable Crossfeed unparalleled by any DSP program on any DAP

 

That my Note3 on a horizontal dock looks and feels like a Squeezebox Touch is a bonus.

 
 
 

  Or would it be a better idea to get a Fiio X5 gen 3 or Ibasso DX120 (if it will ever come out) and use that instead?

 

One other advantage of using my Note3 as a server: it's something I need for other purposes and thus would not have to specifically allot resources for it, even if it wasn't carrier subsidized I'd still need a phone anyway. If you can afford the X5III though then why not.

 

  Is there a great difference between a line out from a good DAP and a standalone DAC?

 

Depending on the DAP, some can have lower than the 2v-ish output of desktop/fullsize DACs. X5III will have 2volts. Not great for the battery life but hey, if you're using it at home for the most part, then that won't be a problem. Get the DK1 dock so you can have a charger or powerbank hooked up via the USB port and a 3.5mm to RCA cable to run a line out signal to the amp, something that you can't do on a smartphone/tablet running USB audio unless there are dongles to allow that for Type C 3.1 devices.

 

[logip]

Thanks for a good input!
 
I'm leaning towards a standalone DAC with my phone as source.
 
One thing is slightly worrying (I'm using Android and will stick to that): http://www.head-fi.org/t/828402/fiio-x5-3rd-gen-2x-akm-4490-balanced-out-dsd-dxd-dts-android-dual-card-slot-mastering-quality-audio/945#post_13156008
 
From  that post: 
 

The problem is, In normal Android, Google has implemented a simple SRC (sample rate convertor) into the audio driver that will degrade the sound quality on any sound that isn't natively encoded into 16/44.1. But on X5III (as well as X7), FiiO has rebuilt the audio driver from the ground up so Android no longer degrade the SQ

 
Does this mean that hi-res auido will be degraded by the Android driver if I used the phone as transport? I'm not sure I understand this correctly.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Does this mean that hi-res auido will be degraded by the Android driver if I used the phone as transport? I'm not sure I understand this correctly.

 

It's downsampled into 16/44.1. I think it partly depends on the app being used because AFAIK NeutronMusicPlayer can bypass USB audio drivers, assuming the Neutron driver works on whatever DAC you're using. AFAIK the discussion on this came more form MQA and high res streaming than locally stored files (not necessarily on the X5III thread but somewhere else, not sure what thread I saw it in).

 

That said, I wouldn't really bother with high res. If the recording was properly mastered it doesn't really matter, and if the mastering sucks the high res copy isn't going to sound better just by being in native 24/96. The only reason why I even have 24/96 is because Dream Theater's The Astonishing is only available in 16/44.1 in MP3, and only 24/96 with FLAC.

 

[logip]

Thanks for explanation. I'm going to check out Neutron and see how it works. Most of the content I have is 16/44.1 so maybe this is not a big issue. 

 

[sirkuttin]

I couldn't bare to think of having a DAP. I understand there use case but I don;t want to carry around another big device with it's own UI. I would rather suggest getting a dac to plug into your phone. For me, i do neither. I have my LG V10 and HD6XX as my portable setup! Do you know about viper4android audio app? 

 

[logip]

I totally get that. I'm a bit of a gadget freak and think the new Fiio X5 looks great BUT it is a hassle having two things you need to "take care of". I also like the external buttons. I'm not familiar with many Android players but I just found USB Audio Player PRO that would probably the solve hi-res issue. 
 
Getting a phone like you have would be great option (LG v10 and V20 have good DACs) but they are not sold currently in Europe. If that changes, I might just do that and skip buying an external DAC (when my phone finally gives up). 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Originally Posted by sirkuttin /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I couldn't bare to think of having a DAP. I understand there use case but I don;t want to carry around another big device with it's own UI. I would rather suggest getting a dac to plug into your phone. 

 

That depends really. If you carry an amp or DAC-HPamp around to use with a phone you end up with a thicker brick connected by a cable. A DAP at least can be in another pocket. Personally though a decent phone with a very efficient IEM is the way to go while moving around, and in my case it's a bonus that I can use my phone as a music server via USB OTG. When phones ditch the headphone jack my back up plan is a clip-on BT receiver with long battery life - Fiio already has one in the works but it has MMCX terminated cables on it.

 

Or at least until the X5III came out. It runs Android and Playstore, so I'd still use NeutronMP's parametric EQ. There's the port on the bottom and the DK1, plus 1.9v line out, so I can use it as a desktop player without messing with USB compatibility. Best of all it doesn't cost as much as the Pioneer/Onkyo and AK players (that don't even integrate as well on a desktop system) or even the X7. Honestly, as much as the X3 was a game changer in paving the way for such products, it wasn't until the X5III that there was another game changer, and one that really got me into thinking about getting one (the DK1 of course was  a critical part of that).

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirkuttin /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I have my LG V10 and HD6XX as my portable setup!

 

Mine's a Note3 and Note4, plus an ASG-1.3 - high isolation, 125dB sensitivity, 32ohms. Can't imagine how you can walk around with the HD600. I use it in my room and the bass responsesounds drastically different at 10am on a weekend (when people are around the neighborhood) and 10pm on weekdays (when everybody is asleep, although I still hear some trucks blaring their horns in the main road) just from the difference in noise floor.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by logip /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I'm a bit of a gadget freak and think the new Fiio X5 looks great BUT it is a hassle having two things you need to "take care of"

 

To be perfectly honest, if I do get the X5III, it'll probably spend more time on my desktop system, and I'll take it with me when I don't have my laptop and fat powerbank in my bag. The thing is though at least when I get home and my phone's battery is running low I won't have to wait for it to fill up before I use the desktop system.

Me being a cheapskate though I'm still thinking, "yeah but now this Android trickled down to the X5, the X3IV might get Android too." Crap 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by logip /img/forum/go_quote.gif

I also like the external buttons. 

 

I'm loving the volume knob, which is the only ergonomic feature I liked on the AKs. With the DK1 dock and the X5III's touchscreen (and Android) the Fiio players have all the strengths of the smartphones for using on a desktop system with none of the disadvantages. In my case, I started out with a vertical dock for the Notes, and working the touchscreen required a joystick grip or they tip over. I got a horizontal dock, and I can't manually force the screen to black out sooner without pressing the volume buttons on the other side. I'm not going with a smaller phone though since, well, as far as phones are concerned I'd rather have a large smartphone where I can do most of the browsing that I'd do on a tablet.

 

 

[sirkuttin]

 

 

That depends really. If you carry an amp or DAC-HPamp around to use with a phone you end up with a thicker brick connected by a cable. A DAP at least can be in another pocket. Personally though a decent phone with a very efficient IEM is the way to go while moving around, and in my case it's a bonus that I can use my phone as a music server via USB OTG. When phones ditch the headphone jack my back up plan is a clip-on BT receiver with long battery life - Fiio already has one in the works but it has MMCX terminated cables on it.

 

I agree that a good phone is the way to go nowadays. I wasn;t promoting carrying a portable dac/amp either. I agree a dap is better than a dac/amp. If you go the route of a DAP, I would suggest one of the android based ones so the UI is familiar and you have the option to stream music on wifi from a router or tethering from your phone. Also, you can use any android app to play music like PowerAmp.
 

 

Mine's a Note3 and Note4, plus an ASG-1.3 - high isolation, 125dB sensitivity, 32ohms. Can't imagine how you can walk around with the HD600. I use it in my room and the bass responsesounds drastically different at 10am on a weekend (when people are around the neighborhood) and 10pm on weekdays (when everybody is asleep, although I still hear some trucks blaring their horns in the main road) just from the difference in noise floor.

The HD6XX are HD650s. I use them with my LG V10 that has viper4android on it. I turned on the DDC option for the 650s and the freq response becomes more flat. deeper bass, less midbass bloat and clearer vocals without the 2-3khz dip. Maybe I listen too loud when I am on the go, but I do not notice much difference in relative bass volume.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I agree that a good phone is the way to go nowadays. I wasn;t promoting carrying a portable dac/amp either. I agree a dap is better than a dac/amp. If you go the route of a DAP, I would suggest one of the android based ones so the UI is familiar and you have the option to stream music on wifi from a router or tethering from your phone. Also, you can use any android app to play music like PowerAmp.

 

Until they start removing the 3.5mm jack for who knows why (they'd still have a DAC and amp chip in there to run the speaker on the phone and decode digital communications at the very least), adn then we'd have to choose between dongles, clip on BT receivers, or DAPs like the X5III.
 

 
The HD6XX are HD650s. I use them with my LG V10 that has viper4android on it. I turned on the DDC option for the 650s and the freq response becomes more flat. deeper bass, less midbass bloat and clearer vocals without the 2-3khz dip. Maybe I listen too loud when I am on the go, but I do not notice much difference in relative bass volume.

 

I'm working at home right now and even with the HD600 on at slightly louder volume I can barely hear the bass over my fan, and I clearly heard the garbage truck outside. Can't imagine how you at least psychologically shut out the environment.

 

[sirkuttin]

This is what i mean by android DAP
 
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/High-Resolution+Audio/XDP-100R-K
 
 
I was at Costco on a crowded Sunaday wearing my HD650 and i could not hear anything other than my music. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  This is what i mean by android DAP
 
https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/High-Resolution+Audio/XDP-100R-K
 
 
I was at Costco on a crowded Sunaday wearing my HD650 and i could not hear anything other than my music. 

 

I have an amplifier and if I listened at a level where I can't hear the normal levels of noise from just outside my window at daytime long enough, I'd have my ears ringing until the next day.

 

Essentially I'm saying that power isn't the problem, but that by the time I get to the point where all of the music is louder than the environmental noise, it's in hearing damage territory already.

 

And speaking of Costco, I've walked around there with my ASG-1.3's on and music at low volume, and despite the IEM isolation I can hear hear people crowding around the free tritip last 30 Dec.

 

[logip]

 

Me being a cheapskate though I'm still thinking, "yeah but now this Android trickled down to the X5, the X3IV might get Android too." Crap 

I had the exact same idea 

 We spend way to much money on this already! I don't really need streaming, so an X3 with a better dac and a good line out would do just fine. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  I had the exact same idea 

 We spend way to much money on this already! I don't really need streaming, so an X3 with a better dac and a good line out would do just fine. 

 
X3v3 with a touchscreen and Android OS. I don't really need the amp section (I only use IEMs on the go), and I can make do with a 1.4v line out if it saves me $100.