[Majestic]

No need to shorten you post Bila. It was spot on. Like everything else, you have a handful of manufactures for most items. Take Cd's. There's a few that make CD's and all the buyers pay to have their name inked on them. Stryrofoam is styrofoam. It can finger say finger lickin good or johnny's good eats, same stuff. I agree that I doubt they have the manufacturing facilities to assemble the drivers on site but the materials they choose to assemble them to give them the Grado sound is what makes them appealing to buyers. 
 
When my dad purchased a 76 stingray Vette back in the 80's it plain hauled. Below the shifter bezel it had a tag that stated 8:1 compression. My friends were building 9:1 trying to achieve acceleration but it did not have the same punch. But you know what...It had nothing to do with the quartrajunk 4 barrel steel intake manifold 8:1 chevy 350 that made it haul....It was everything from front to back.  That means using the right gear ratio's in the trans to selecting the correct differential ratio's to achieve acceleration and top speed. 
 
So yeah, Grado  bought the drivers from vendor a or b, but assembled them in a fashion that produced a unique sound that has many craving more. Heck the drivers look the same in My Bose OE's
 
It's all in the touch......
 
 
Quote:

The question of whether Grado makes its own drivers is a sensitive one.  It's a debate that brings out some of the angriest replies I've seen on HeadFi.  The official word from Grado is that the drivers are made in-house, so - at least to some Grado fans - to suggest otherwise is to call somebody a liar.  You don't have to live in Texas to know "them's fightin' words."

 

[EddieE]

If Koss and Grado do both use the same base components to make their drivers, it does not mean Grado is lying when they say they make their drivers on site - the destressing/coating proceedure can't be dismissed as an afterprocess as the driver's coating is as much a part of it as anything else, the material they use to damp the vent holes is visibly different and who knows what else they do to make a Grado sound so different to a Koss driver.
 
A restaurant isn't lying when they say they make their lasagne on site, even if they don't actually grow the tomatoes in the yard or slaughter the cow in the kitchen. They buy the ingredients in, then the chef makes the dish what it is.

 

[Majestic]

Yup, like I said they may not make the driver it's How the assemble everything and the parts they choose (Wood, aluminum, Plastic etc.) That is the touch they have at making good sound as the last touch the chef adds when he tosses in the secret ingredient. 

 

[Bilavideo]

Good points.
 
When I look at the black, plastic cups, with their black plastic cages, I wonder.  Questions go through my head: Why dye the cups black if nobody is going to see them?  Isn't the dye job geared toward pleasing the buyer?  And if plastic is inferior to wood or aluminum, why use the same plastic all the way up the product line - even on the GS/PS1000?  The PS1 and the HP1000 used aluminum cups?  What happened to that?  On my RS1, HF2, GS1000 and PS1000, there was always the hint that somebody had worn off the plastic lip in order to wrap the front grill with a wooden lip and cover.  Why go to the trouble?  Why not start with wood or metal to begin with?  And if the PS1 and the HP1000 are fetching such cherry prices on the used market - none of which go to Grado - why not simply make more of them?  I hear the original drivers are gone, but if that's the case, why can't Grado make more?  If those drivers were the headphone equivalent of a stradivarius, what's to keep Grado from making more?  If it can't, why can't it?
 
I started to bring this up - and it goes through my head whenever I hear what sounds like a stork story - but I always seem to stop because, when all is said and done, Grado makes great headphones.  That's the bottom line.  I really don't care where the drivers come from.  The fact of the matter is, nobody makes anything quite like Grado.  Sennheiser makes headphones that are drier and more analytical - with the HD800 standing as the apex of what Sennheiser does.  I can't help but feel that beyerdynamic's product line is just so many variations of the DT770, including the open but punchy T1.  AKG produced a masterpiece in the K1000 but it wasn't cost-effective, so we get variations of the K701.  Denon, Audio Technica and Ultrasone make great headphones - as does Sony when it feels like it - but nothing sounds quite like a Grado, certainly not a Koss on its best day (though I think the PortaPro is a little jewel for $40).
 
I think the SR60 is a better headphone than its price suggests, which is why I like to mod it up.  It's cool to push the envelope and see how far it can be taken.

 

[nathanv]

speaking of modding sr60s did you ever get around to  the carbon fiber cups?

 

[wallace]

Hi Bilavideo,I just got round to approaching the rear of my 80i's with a sharp object and punching out some holes.5 on each side,it does make quite a remarkable difference .Won't do the 325's yet, but am giving the 80's a good listening to right now.Thanks..

 

[Bilavideo]

 

speaking of modding sr60s did you ever get around to  the carbon fiber cups?

 
No, I killed my bank account buying up equipment to play with and other people's Grados to tinker with.  I am so in the doghouse.  I can't begin to describe it.  But I wouldn't go back for anything.  I feel as if I've left the cave and my eyes are adjusting to the light.
 
Carbon fiber is next, and by next, I mean this month.  I just got paid.  I'm feeling ambitious.
 

Hi Bilavideo,I just got round to approaching the rear of my 80i's with a sharp object and punching out some holes.5 on each side,it does make quite a remarkable difference .Won't do the 325's yet, but am giving the 80's a good listening to right now.Thanks..

 
Wallace, I'm excited for you.  I'm glad to hear that the venting worked.  I've had one person say it didn't, but everybody else has come back pretty stoked about the difference.  I think in the case of that one person, previous modding had already brought out a lot of bass, so the difference wasn't remarkable, at least for this person.
 
When you're ready, use a ball-point for the 325s.  It's safer.  You'll find that a few well-placed vents will turn the tables on any complaints that the 325 is too shrill.  I think the big reason some people dislike the 325 is that it adds sparkle but the bass - unamped - isn't enough of a jump to keep up.  When I vented my 325, that issue evaporated immediately.  The extra bass balanced out the presentation.  It also made it completely unnecessary to crank up the volume to get the bass, which kept my 325s from ever sounding shrill - even with the harshest metal and alt rock.

 

[Majestic]

Hey Bill,
 
   When you say a ball point pen the do you mean that the vent hole will be only the size if the tip or once you pierce the vent do you need to make the hole larger in circular motion. I'm hoping to pick up a pair this month if funds allow.
 
Thanks

 

[radiohlite]

wow, i punched 2 holes on my SR60 and now I can hear 20hz!
 
now if I could just figure out how to tame those high-freq spikes...they'd be absolutely perfect.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

wow, i punched 2 holes on my SR60 and now I can hear 20hz!
 
now if I could just figure out how to tame those high-freq spikes...they'd be absolutely perfect.

I was able to do this and I'm not sure what caused this. Here's a few things to try.
 
Cover 4 of those holes with thick felt strips (if they're not already open it's ok). Two on each side. Maybe 1 on each side is worth trying first.
 
Remove the button or grill/grating. I was trying to take off the logo and ended up ruining it by it leaving a circle there. Seems fine though, but i'll replace this later.
 
Now the highs are never fatiguing and I can listen to them for hours.
 
I used a lot of felt around the edge in a circle. It's thicker then what most people used and I found it at wal-mart. It's called "Felt Strips" and I cut about 20% off each one. I don't think this is what toned down the highs. Don't think the felt button did either.
 
BTW I have 6 holes open. 4 covered. I had 10, but it added too much mid-bass for me. Not sure why I tried to cover the 4 with thick felt. Was going to use tape, but now i'm glad I didn't!
 
I'm might go down to a few less holes, but i'm not sure now. For those i'll use thin masking tape. I sure wish I didn't start with 10 holes! Big mistake for me.
 
Right now the bass is just incredible. Night and day difference. I love it. Previously I was complaining they don't have enough bass! I can't get over how it feels like I now have a $300 headphone.

 

[Bilavideo]

Hey Bill,
 
   When you say a ball point pen the do you mean that the vent hole will be only the size if the tip or once you pierce the vent do you need to make the hole larger in circular motion. I'm hoping to pick up a pair this month if funds allow.
 
Thanks

A ball-point pen lets you pop the hole without going too far (the wider body around the tip holds it back).  Now, once you have the hole, there's no reason not to use circular motions to widen it a bit.  The pen is the perfect implement to pull that off as well.

 

[Nightslayer]

Anyone knows what the difference is between the drivers in different models of the Grado headphones? Aesthetically speaking they all look the same. Furthermore, does the placing of the holes in the diaphragm felt make any difference to the sound or just the number?

 

[BobSaysHi]

I know that the higher end Grado model's driver models use a higher quality driver wire. other than that, they are the same

 

[Bilavideo]

They use UHPLC - which is Grado's proprietary name for high-end copper.  The big guns use the same UHPLC but double the amount of cables.  That's how you get four-connector and eight-connector cable.
 
A standard headphone cable has three wires - Left, Right and Ground.  A four-connector cable lets you create two Grounds.  Doing so lets you minimize interference caused by the common ground wire.  If you have two Grounds running separately, you don't quite have a balanced setup (because you're not really bi-amping) but the area of interference is minimal.  An eight-connector cable uses the same wires as the four-connector setup but doubles the amount of copper being run.  This is what creates the Garden Hose cables on the big Grados.
 
My solution was to run silver, which has better conductivity than copper.  While commercial cables are heavily hyped - and super expensive - a simple four-wire braid is not much more expensive than jumbo pads.  I found that silver gave me even better sensitivity than eight wires of copper but also presented a thinner, lighter, alternative to the Garden Hose.

 

[apatN]

Quote:

    A four-connector cable lets you create two Grounds.

 
Hold it right there. You cannot create two grounds for headphone cables, rather you use two conductors that are tied to the same ground. There will still be one ground no matter what.