Speakers and Headphones...Question

Jul 24, 2004 at 8:45 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 18

Asphodyne

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I am new to hi-fi audio, as my signature easily shows. I have been browsing these forums, and naturally the discussion is heavily slanted towards headphones. However, I am wondering about the basic differences between speakers and headphones. Some on these forums have said most people are "speaker people," meaning they would prefer speakers to headphones. I guess this is true in the way that most people prefer cars to motorcycles.

I have also heard it said that headphones can outperform speakers five times their price. But yet, I find myself using my crappy Altec Lansings for ambient music, even though my Grados are superior in sound. It just seems that headphones are inherently uncomfortable, being that they are on one's head and restrict movement. Also, psychologically, I find myself enjoying music more when I know other people can hear it and enjoy it as well. These factors sometimes outweigh the increased detail and fidelity headphones offer. Is this what commentators on these forums mean when they say most people are "speaker people"? Also, what percentage of people can actually appreciate the differences high-costing equipment can bring? I bought the SR-60s knowing that the difference would be palpable, and they are. But it is just an additional amount of visceral enjoyment. I can't reductionalize music and sound the way people on these forums can. I just find that I enjoy things more. When people analyze headphones here, they often comment on accuracy and technical aspects of sound reproduction. However, will upgrading from Grado SR-60s provide obvious additional enjoyment, or can only 10-15% of the population appreciate the technical differences?

On a side note, how does a moderately expensive set of speakers, like the Swan M200s, compare to my current Grados and other higher-end headphones? Is a comparison possible?

Thanks for any advice.
 
Jul 24, 2004 at 8:48 PM Post #2 of 18
you are lucky to not be as obsessed with the nuances that make myself and others spend endless money on new headphones and speakers.
 
Jul 24, 2004 at 10:16 PM Post #3 of 18
run while you can! Run! dont stop!!! before u start spending thousands and thousands on speakers!!!!!
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 6:58 AM Post #4 of 18
This place's OK, trust me. I haven't heard anything about "speaker people" or head-fi'er's disrespecting non-audiophiles (except arogant non-audiophiles
tongue.gif
).

There are reasons, always reasons to use headphones over speakers or vice versa. Do a search on the comparisons and you'll get tons of opinions from us, old or new.

As for myself, I share music with my friends with speakers for fun, and rather submerge into the music completely with headphones. Something like how I like to watch hit and popular movies like Spiderman with family and friends, and watch Stanley Kubrick on my own. I won't listen to ambient or Karlheinz Stockhausen with my friends to "impress" them would I? That's just my case.

I've always been wondering, if I wear headphones all the time, wouldn't I look quite umm...antisocial? It's like I'm cutting myself off with the outside world or something....
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 3:33 PM Post #5 of 18
I am more an Hifi Guy then one or the other... i try to get the best sound of both world with the money i can spend. Sure i prefer my speakers over my headphones but its principally because the speakers have this advantage to be able to physically make you feel the music...

A Jazz band playing live would affect not only your ears... there is waves that can be felt trough the whole body... My Kef C95 can achieve something near a live experience... my headphones just cant...

Nevertheless headphones have also advantage over the speakers... but they are more practical then anything else... and its true that you can easily get an HiFi sound for less then 250$ with headphones and get a Full Range experience that would cost a fortune with stereo speakers ( without a sub ) ...

If you want great speakers for less... you have to go with used or some rare unknown brand that give incredible value for cheap ( in order to establish their name in this crowded market )
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 3:37 PM Post #6 of 18
Swans is a division of HiVi research... never been impressed by their product or built quality, but just by curiosity how much are the model your are describing? could you send a link where i can see the specs?
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 6:00 PM Post #7 of 18
In my limited experience, headphones offer a more precise but less "realistic" (in terms of instrument positions, soundstage, etc) version of the music, while speakers may be a bit less detailed but can provide a more natural sound with an excellent overall effect. It's also true that speakers of comparable quality will be hugely more expensive than headphones. My 200 euro HD-600s are about as good, to my ears, as my dad's 800 euro Keff speakers.
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 6:24 PM Post #9 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by lizzardfire
I was a speaker guy. Then I got my Sony CD3000s/JMT PPA. My speakers are still hooked up, but haven't been turned on in weeks, lol.


I haven't listened to my speakers since.......
I can't remember.
Last week I turned the speaker amp on and it died immediately.I remained calm.
Who cares about speaker amps?
My Stax is much more fun
lambda.gif
.
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 6:25 PM Post #10 of 18
I go through phases from speakers (2 channel, audio only) to headphones to HT (7.1, movies or concert DVDs). For any music lover, there should be a place for headphone listening no matter how good their speaker system is! Headphones eliminate the room and allow you to hear subtle detials that, try as you may, you cannot pick up in a 2 channel set up. Headphones also allow you to drift off effortlessly into the performance and to become totally absorbed in the music without having to think about anything else. Sure, you give up soundstage, imaging, and visceral impact to a large extent, but you gain a lot in terms of intimacy.

This is why I cannot understand for the life of me why someone who has invested heavily in a 2 channel system (say $20k and upwards) would not at least have ONE pair of headphones lying around (say, HD600 or similar) so that they would have this alternative available to them at all times. Yet, if you were to survey the Audiogon or Audio Asylum crowd, my guess is less than 10% of these people spend any time whatsoever listening to headphones. A lot of my 2 channel friends say "I don't get it" whenever I bring up the subject of headphone listening, but is seems that they have never tried to listen to music through a good headphone system. The assumption is that it cannot possibly be as good as their room full of gear, and in my opinion based on experience with headphones, they are wrong. It does take some "getting used to" but once you find the right headphone, head amp, source combination, it becomes hard to go back to 2 channel listening (or at least not exclusively).
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 6:26 PM Post #11 of 18
I normally listen to music through speakers, if the situation permits. When I can't listen to speakers, the headphone is a nice substitute. When I can listen to speakers, the headphone becomes a useful auxilary. There are certain aspects that headphones can outperform speakers several times more expensive, such as clarity, details and tonal balance. Recently I have been listening to violin music quite often with headphones because of its better tonal balance (more like a violin sound). But overall speakers offer the inherent advantages of soundstaging, imaging and impact, and simply resembles live music better in terms of spatial distribution of sound sources. Even though I am mainly a speaker guy, my headphone has taught me more things about hi-fi over the years than any other component.
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 7:25 PM Post #12 of 18
I was referring to these: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...136-102&depa=0

I probably have less refined tastes than many here. I enjoy the visceral impact and fullness-surroundedness that my Audigy 2 ZS / Altec Lansing 251 combo offer, even as I enjoy the intimacy and detail of my lower-end Grados.

As for enjoying music, I find that my mood matters much more than the equipment. If I am in a musically-receptive mode, I can "groove" to the crappiest sound-producing devices. When my ears are more fatigued, or I am overly critical, the Altec Lansings become less tolerable.

However, I have been listening to music a few years--and perhaps only the last few months, with a critical ear toward sound quality. I am also a pre-college freshman. Have you guys found your musical tastes / discernment to change significantly over the years? I know the first stage is more bass. While not a basshead, I find I would like more impact and extension than the SR-60s can provide.

My goal right now is to hit the right spot on the diminishing returns curve. I would like some help, as in headphone recommendations. I primarily listen to ectophile-type music (ectoguide.org), including:

Loreena Mckennitt
Tori Amos
Kathleen Edwards
The Sundays
Simon and Garfunkel
Sarah McLachlan
Sarah Brightman
Lucy Kaplansky
Michelle Branch
Avril Lavigne (the less ridiculous stuff)
Jane Siberry
Enya (the vocals, not the ambient stuff)
Kate Bush
Marillion
Charlotte Church

and more in the similar vein...

I also listen to classical and techno as background music occasionally. They are too boring for me to listen to critically though, so they are second priorities.

What headphones would do well for the artists I listen to--mostly ethereal female vocals? I like the Grado sound, bass impact and extension, as well as nicely reproduced vocals. My budget would be around $200, including an amp if necessary.

Thanks for any help.
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 7:43 PM Post #13 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by lojay
I've always been wondering, if I wear headphones all the time, wouldn't I look quite umm...antisocial? It's like I'm cutting myself off with the outside world or something....


Hehe, not wanting to be around people 24/7 does not make you antisocial, it makes you normal
wink.gif
But even if you were antisocial, it's not like it's a crime or something to be ashamed of. Sorry I picked that comment to quote on, but I just found it a bit funny
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 8:35 PM Post #14 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphodyne
My goal right now is to hit the right spot on the diminishing returns curve.


You've got Grado SR60s. You're doing pretty well. You might want to run away now.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphodyne
I would like some help, as in headphone recommendations.


Oh, no, here we go.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asphodyne
Thanks for any help.


Don't thank anybody yet. Let's see, you'll need to spend at least $150 on cans, $300 on an amp, $500 on a source, let's estimate low around $200 on ics.
All you want is cans, right? Stick with what you have. The return you will get if you upgrade will only be able to be judged by you.
If you really, really, REALLY have to try something, get a pair of SR225s. That's about as good as it gets without a better source/amp.
 
Jul 25, 2004 at 9:37 PM Post #15 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by enzoferrari650
run while you can! Run! dont stop!!! before u start spending thousands and thousands on speakers!!!!!


Or headphones...........I have spent the double or more, of what I have in speakers in headphones, and I'm still looking for my sound, I hope to get it pretty soon....
 

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