Speaker amps for headphones

[Armaegis]

Ahh, good advice. Yes, there is a warm up period. The noise level on this tube amp is quite high, which is only amplified in the headphones, but suppose comes with the territory. Thank you.

I just noticed this part... why are you choosing to use this amp on headphones then???

You don't appear to be using low sensitivity planars which is about the only good use case for this type of amp. You're slapping the converter box into the mix which is going to introduce some impedance shenanigans, which considering the shape of the impedance plot of your ZMF headphones (they have peaks in the midbass and low treble) is going to create a boost in that region.

Nearly $500+ is a lot of money to spend on a box that may or may not produce what you want.

 

[harris4crna]

I just noticed this part... why are you choosing to use this amp on headphones then???

You don't appear to be using low sensitivity planars which is about the only good use case for this type of amp. You're slapping the converter box into the mix which is going to introduce some impedance shenanigans, which considering the shape of the impedance plot of your ZMF headphones (they have peaks in the midbass and low treble) is going to create a boost in that region.

Nearly $500+ is a lot of money to spend on a box that may or may not produce what you want.

I use the A-70 primarily to listen to the ZMFs. I'm curious how they will sound with the tube amp. I can imagine the box may be utilized by either amp. Although, you make a real good point. $500 is a bit much just to scratch an itch of curiosity.

I will attempt to cancel the order. Thanks.

 

[Armaegis]

I mean... it's all fun and good to experiment, but a banana to XLR4 adapter is literally $20 off ebay. Drop some cheap 8ohm resistors across the binding posts and you're pretty much ready to go at a twentieth the price (heck the resistors aren't even strictly necessary as long as you're careful to make sure the headphone is connected). If that doesn't scratch the itch but in fact makes you more curious, then go ahead and get the expensive box (though personally I think it's overpriced, the Hifiman HE box is essentially the same thing and costs $100)

 

[harris4crna]

I mean... it's all fun and good to experiment, but a banana to XLR4 adapter is literally $20 off ebay. Drop some cheap 8ohm resistors across the binding posts and you're pretty much ready to go at a twentieth the price (heck the resistors aren't even strictly necessary as long as you're careful to make sure the headphone is connected). If that doesn't scratch the itch but in fact makes you more curious, then go ahead and get the expensive box (though personally I think it's overpriced, the Hifiman HE box is essentially the same thing and costs $100)

Yeah, won't grant refund, so I'm using an expensive box to scratch a curious itch. It's all good. It's not the first time I've over paid for something in this hobby.

 

[jlemaster1957]

Yeah, won't grant refund, so I'm using an expensive box to scratch a curious itch. It's all good. It's not the first time I've over paid for something in this hobby.

Bryan, the vendor at Zynsonix, has been a great resource to me for "all things related" to use of speaker amps, and other related equipment, i..e very ready to answer questions and give 'informed advice'. Admittedly, the 'non-attenuated' connection for low sensitivity HPs, such as the Susvara, and in the case of using a solid state or transformer coupled tube amp may be the least compelling 'use case' for such an adapter box. I have not experienced in my use of the 'attenuated' -12 dB 4-pin XLR out any peaks in the FR of non-planar HPs, eg. Sennheiser HD6XX, 620S and I do not use EQ, YMMV. This may differ for other HPs that have FRs which tend anyway towards 'peakiness' in certain regions. And, I am using the Schiit Tyr Monoblocks (200 W into 8 ohm), which is pretty neutral across the frequency spectrum- other amps with a less balanced signature may vary in terms of user experience.

I have no regrets. If I had a question about using a new HP with my set up, Bryan knows the Tyrs and I'd trust his advice. OTOH, to each his own. I know other users who are doing exactly as @Armaegis recommends successfully.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Yeah, won't grant refund, so I'm using an expensive box to scratch a curious itch. It's all good. It's not the first time I've over paid for something in this hobby.

Hi Shawn. My apologies. Had I not already ordered the parts I'd provide a full refund (minus Paypal's 3% they won't refund). The offer still stands to cancel with a restock cost and you can use that as a credit toward a future purchase. I try to be as fair as possible about these types of situations as everyone should be treated respectfully.

The market for this particular converter box is specifically for people who care about the internal part quality, much like the quality of the conductors within a headphone cable, and/or want something U.S. assembled. Value is honestly a very fascinating sentiment that differs between folks for a multitude of reasons. I've taken plenty of marketing and sociology classes and it can still be quite nebulous at times (why are people fighting over purchasing limited edition Stanley cups at Target?). Twenty years ago I never would have guessed the prevalence of $6,000+ headphones either... but here we are

Anyway, happy holidays and much respect to everyone here as we all love music first and foremost, and I think that's a great thing. Value is going to be different for everyone, and I'm thankful we have a platform to share and discuss our differing opinions.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Been using a Zynsonix Speakertap Adapter box for years.
Happy with the quality and the customer service Prior to ordering.

Now that I have my Soltanus Acoustics Driver unit, I put my Zynsonix Adapter Box up for sale. However not because I'm unhappy with it but because I can consolidate two devices into one that way.

 

[Armaegis]

When I spoke of potential changes in the frequency response using these kind of boxes, it comes down to the resistor divider if the box has a set of resistors in series with the load (we'll completely ignore anything to do with damping factors because that's a whole 'nuther thing). If the connected headphone has an impedance curve that varies significantly with frequency, this will alter the corresponding voltage received at those frequencies. Usually it isn't a drastic change, and whether it will be easily audible... *shrug*. Some even prefer it because most often the impedance peak comes in the midbass and a bit of extra oomph there is usually easy on the ears.

As for the value argument, eh, I said what I said. I used to build cables on commission years ago and it's all a whackload of time that someone has to pay for. I get it. For someone chasing the last few percent and knows what they want and appreciate/want to support locally made goods, and/or the cost really isn't a factor, then go for it. But I'll always recommend someone try the budget option (or the "easy" DIY option) first if they are chasing a phantom itch or are already stretching their budget but it's easy to get caught up by all the excitement of toys around here.

And just so y'all know I am in fact the pot calling the kettle black, I have one of the original super inefficient HE-6 that I've driven directly off speaker taps, off monoblock kilowatt amps, through the hifiman HE adapter, through my own DIY adapters and boxes with variants of parallel and/or series resistors, through jensen and other transformers, through an iFi iESL box (which is another transformer), etc etc etc. I've served the kool aid on the crazy train and come back round again. Funny thing is, these days I drive it off a Phonitor 2 which doesn't even really have enough power for them, but I'm too lazy to hook up the rest of it lol.

 

[Rossliew]

I mean... it's all fun and good to experiment, but a banana to XLR4 adapter is literally $20 off ebay. Drop some cheap 8ohm resistors across the binding posts and you're pretty much ready to go at a twentieth the price (heck the resistors aren't even strictly necessary as long as you're careful to make sure the headphone is connected). If that doesn't scratch the itch but in fact makes you more curious, then go ahead and get the expensive box (though personally I think it's overpriced, the Hifiman HE box is essentially the same thing and costs $100)

Hi there, noticed you mentioned that resistors aren't strictly necessary - is this in reference to transformer coupled tube amps? and what do you mean by "careful to make sure the headphone is connected". I've been meaning to try and run some headphones directly off the speaker taps of tube amps but have been afraid of costly mistakes as a result. Do advice, if you don't mind. Many thanks.

 

[Armaegis]

Hi there, noticed you mentioned that resistors aren't strictly necessary - is this in reference to transformer coupled tube amps? and what do you mean by "careful to make sure the headphone is connected". I've been meaning to try and run some headphones directly off the speaker taps of tube amps but have been afraid of costly mistakes as a result. Do advice, if you don't mind. Many thanks.

Transformer couple tube amps specifically need a load connected when they are turned on. The reason being that if you don't, there's sort of a magical magnetic feedback loop that will amplify itself and damage the amp because there's nothing there to dissipate energy. Having a load (speakers or headphone or resistors, etc) provides the load necessary to stop the runaway loop.

Some of these amps have a resistor built-in on the outputs (parallel to the load) to protect the amp and also provide a more stable output. Some don't, and customers may install one for their own peace of mind. Usually it isn't as big of a deal for speakers because they don't really get disconnected all that often unless you're reconfiguring your system. Headphones on the other hand tend to get unplugged/replugged much more frequently.

Tube amps that are not transformer coupled do not need a load resistor.
Solid state amps do not need a load resistor.

So now that all said, if you have a transformer coupled tube amp and want to use headphones on the speaker taps and make sure those headphones are connected, you can turn it on just fine without having extra resistors paralleled to the load.

Complication 1: Sometimes tube amps run best when they see a very specific load value, which is why the paralleled resistors are often seen even with speakers (though human ears may not hear the difference regardless, but we're silly creatures that way)
Complication 2: noise noise noise, which is why additional resistors are sometimes used (either in a simple series or as an L-pad or some other combination arrangement) to reduce the amount of signal sent to the headphone and wasting the rest as heat though the resistors, the upside being you reduce the noise but you will likely need to turn the pot up to increase your signal.

 

[Rossliew]

Many thanks for the explanation - understand it perfectly now. In short, so long the headphones are connected to the amp, there is no issue switching on and off without using any additional resistors on the speaker taps.

On the other hand, am i correct in saying that should the headphone not be in use, it is best to remove the headphone to speaker tap adapter entirely ?

 

[Armaegis]

so long the headphones are connected to the amp, there is no issue switching on and off without using any additional resistors on the speaker taps.

Generally correct. However, it's good practice to have the volume on the amp (or preamp) turned down all the way before you turn on or off the amp.

Complication 3: if your amp has a substantial turn-on (or turn-off) thump* even with the pot turned down. On speakers it may be an annoying pop, but on headphones there's greater potential for damage.

*there are several factors that may cause this, like in-rush current, cap bleed off, magic gremlins, blah blah

On the other hand, am i correct in saying that should the headphone not be in use, it is best to remove the headphone to speaker tap adapter entirely ?

Not counting the complication 3 above, it doesn't really matter if you leave the headphones connected.

If your binding post to XLR4 adapter has no resistors, then really you can just leave the adapter connected and remove the headphones to make your life a little easier. Heck, I've had both speakers and the adapter connected at the same time before (I've also had headphones connected simultaneously, it's fine, though you'll have limited room to wiggle on the pot, and don't experiment with expensive cans).

 

[Rossliew]

Generally correct. However, it's good practice to have the volume on the amp (or preamp) turned down all the way before you turn on or off the amp.

Complication 3: if your amp has a substantial turn-on (or turn-off) thump* even with the pot turned down. On speakers it may be an annoying pop, but on headphones there's greater potential for damage.

*there are several factors that may cause this, like in-rush current, cap bleed off, magic gremlins, blah blah



Not counting the complication 3 above, it doesn't really matter if you leave the headphones connected.

If your binding post to XLR4 adapter has no resistors, then really you can just leave the adapter connected and remove the headphones to make your life a little easier. Heck, I've had both speakers and the adapter connected at the same time before (I've also had headphones connected simultaneously, it's fine, though you'll have limited room to wiggle on the pot, and don't experiment with expensive cans).

AHhh excellent clarification there...many thanks, good sir! I can safely search for nice tube amps to drive my Senns now without needing to add resistors in place. Just need to be bit more careful with the volume pot.

 

[harris4crna]

With the Accuphase A-70, I have two sets of speaker terminals. I have my HP cable to XLR adapter connected at all times without issue. I even connect my speakers, but notice a power draw. Nothing that this amp cannot handle.

I make a habbit to turn down volume, disconnect HPs and power down amp after each use. In reverse, I turn on amp, connect HPs and than turn up volume to desired volume.

After speaking with Bryan, and listening to the great info from the contributors to this site, I believe the true benefit of the converter box will definitely be the Synthesis Tube amp.

Thank you all.

 

[Vanheim]

For mostly poops and giggles, tried my argon mk3 out of my pass int-250 with a cable adapter. Was surprised by the lack of noise compared to previously using the primaluna evo200 and hegel h95- but i guess this should be expected. Either ways, it didn’t wow me as much as the hegel pairing, granted im not using the ampsandsound speaker adapter box like i did with the hegel. I like the argons better directly from my A90 (not discrete) and even more out of the xduuo 604 using the a90 as a preamp for it. Dac is a lowly humble topping e70V.

The pass int-250 is a dream with speakers though. Currently driving pmc twenty5 21i in a desktop-nearfield setup. Overkill to use the int-250 in such a setting? Sure- but haven’t heard any other amp bring out as much low-end reach out of the bass-lite pmcs. And it’s so smooth- never harsh but supremely detailed.

It’s makes me want a pass hpa-1 for headphones, but unfortunately it can’t do susvara’s. Maybe the int-250 will fit them better who knows.

Cheers! Happy new year everyone!