[Nomax]

EVERBODY HEARS DIFFERENT,ERVERBODY Loves other style of Music

THE Z7 is really a nice headphone FOR THIS Price but in my opinion the fact is,it is not a REAL FLAGHSHIP

NOMAX

 

[marhol]

Thanks Jude for a very informative and factual post !  Next weeks are going to be interesting, I´m looking forward to further impressions and discussion.

 

[bleufalcon]

Two driver design is surely the future of making headphones with over-sized drivers.

Or a small scale version of KEF's uni-q drivers! Tweeter embedded in woofer.
 

 

[borrego]

  There is something to it, but I am certain that the primary factor for the Z7's treble weakness is the fact that their driver is of 70 mm size. With speakers as the size of a speaker cone increases the bass gets better and the treble gets weaker. The similar effect is valid for headphones; as the size of a diaphragm increases the treble starts disappearing. That is a law of the Universe and nothing can be done about it - a 70 mm headphones driver is just not capable of reproducing the treble of the same quality as a 50 mm driver is capable. With the bass the reverse is true.
'Treble weakness' is a relative term if we are not in the business or the endeavor to evaluate headphones' performance objectively; for many people the treble performance of Z7 will be acceptable, or good, and for some who are 'treble phobic', even great. Other factors in the equation are the different forms of music, for something like bass, bang and thump music the lack of treble extension will not be much noticeable. I predict that the treble performance of Z7 will be just adequate. Nobody should expect the quantity and quality of Beyerdynamic T1's treble. Those who listen to music on acoustic instruments, the classical music included, will find the coloration of the tones of instruments, due to Z7's treble weakness, irritating. My worry is that Sony audio engineers, in order to compensate for the insufficient treble, tuned these headphones to have an upper mids peak as a substitute treble of sorts. The've done this trick before with MDR-1R headphones. This kind of peak would wreck [color unpleasantly] any decent vocals. Let us hope that this is not the case.
My view is that Sony has gone past the limit of what is possible to do with one solitary driver. Somewhere past 60 mm size headphones need to have two drivers within the ear-cup enclosure, one driver [tweeter driver] would be needed to just play the treble frequencies. Two driver design is surely the future of making headphones with over-sized drivers. Very recently JVC made headphones with this design, HA-SZ2000 have been selling for less than a year, but these headphones are a failure. They are just bass canons with dim and recessed middle frequencies.
With modding to tone down bass and thus bring treble up a bit MDR-Z7 might turn up to be very good headphones,... maybe even excellent. Good luck to us all.

I  think your assessment is too much of generalization. If driver diameter size is inversely proportion to treble response then even larger planar and electrostatics headphone drivers would even have weaker treble.
 
You can argue your assessment only applies to dynamic driver designs. But if it is true then it has more to do with the diameter ratio between the magnet/voice coil and the sonic decay characteristic of the diaphragm.
 
There are many "ring" type treble speaker driver designs which produce excellent treble. If you look at the Z7 driver, you can see the usual "dust cap" section is relatively much larger in area compare to typical woofer drivers you usually find on speakers. So the Z7 drivers more of "Ring" types with matching large diameter voice coil.
 
But you are right on the fact that there is just so much a single driver can do. I would worry more the bass of the Z7 would get into the mid like the XB series.

 

[Nomax]

I think GIRLS also likes to wear SONY'S Z7??gggggg

NOMAX

 

[Makiah S]

   
I have both. That's very apples-oranges, in my opinion.
 
The HD 800 is still, in my opinion, the highest performing moving coil dynamic headphone in the world, particularly when well-driven, well-paired. As much as I dig the MDR-Z7, it hasn't changed my opinion of the HD 800 in that regard.
 
That said, there are still some who don't like the HD 800's tonal balance, or its brand of revealing, and for those people, the MDR-Z7--which is, to my ears, a rich, revealing flagship headphone--would probably be preferred.
 
 
I haven't done a side-by-side leakage comparison, but I'd say the MDR-Z7's leakage is on the low side of moderate. By my definition, there's some leakage--again, the degree to which this is or isn't a problem is going to be determined by how loud one listens, and the tolerance of those around him to a given amount of leakage.
 
In terms of isolation for the listener, it's okay, but it is definitely not my most isolating closed headphone.
 
 
@Mshenay, I think you're making a lot of assumptions based mostly on Nomax's impressions. I won't argue with Nomax's perception (how could I argue about how it sounds to him?), but he and I are definitely perceiving this headphone very differently. Based on what I've read, it seems he hears this headphone as having far more bass presence than I perceive; and far less treble presence than I perceive.
 
I would be very surprised if this headphone, after its owned by a lot of people, earns a collective impression of having "darker sound."
 
 
Again, a lot of pretty specific assumptions being made here. I also have the SRH1540 and Mad Dog--not here at the moment, but at the office--and, by way of memory, I'd say the MDR-Z7 has more treble sparkle than either of those. I'll bring them home this weekend--or after CanJam @ RMAF if I don't have much listening time this weekend (because of CanJam preparation)--and do more direct comparisons then, but I feel reasonably confident in my from-memory comparison in this very specific regard.
 
And is there really "MASSIVE amounts" of hype for the MDR-Z7? I'm not seeing it. Of course, there's a new Sony flagship, so there's going to be a lot of interest in discussing it in a community like this, but I'm not seeing what I'd consider massive hype here.
 
 
Again, for what it's worth, I don't perceive the MDR-Z7 as lacking treble extension. I know there isn't much in the way of MDR-Z7 reviews yet, but even looking at the comments I have been able to find.
 
 the only way--to figure out what any headphone is going to sound like to you.

 
As some one who strongly prefers the Beyer House sound [I.e VERY BRIGHT] headphones, the impressions I've gotten so far lead me to think it's going to be on the side of warm.
 
A good example of this is the HD 600 and DT 880, both are brillant headphones! But some people like the warmer HD 600, some like the Colder DT 880. And some like both for different genres of music. 
 
My interest in the MDR Z7 is based around that hope that it's fill that role, be a smack dap in the middle kind of can. I'm hearing that when paired with the PHA-3 it really is SMACK in the middle and wonderfully balanced.
 

   
I only had a rather short listen at IFA, but with my own music (so at least that was well-known) and would not have called it dark either. I think I said in my earlier post that I would relate the sound signature to the TH900, i.e. bass and treble a bit elevated, but to me neither was overwhelming (for reference: my primary headphone is a T1).

Now this too is an interesting comment,  
 
When I say there's "massive" amounts of hype I'm commenting not just with reference to this thread but to head fi as a whole, I've gotten some Pm's about the MDR Z7 in addition to hearing it pop up in other threads. 
 
I need to hear this for my self! Reading impressions isn't going to do me any good. As there is some pretty contrasting opinions.
 
But aside from the sound, there's the issue of the cable and how it's pairing with existing set ups. As it is now, I'd have to have it re cable just to use it with either of my amps, still though... the option I have at the moment is to either upgrade my W1000x to something that can do everything from my portable set up, like my HE 4 does at home. Or find a can to compliment it,
 
On the compliment side, a D7k is the most obvious choice. Loved my D2k [which was warm, even with mods] Not to mention I'm a bit of a wood fetish. Although as it stands the MDR Z7 has some crazy feed back.
 
Either way thank you very much Jude for addressing some of my concerns! Means a lot to me man, and I will look forward to hearing how it compares to the Shure 1540 and the Mad Dog, the TH 900 comparisons will be nice as well! 

 

[Compassionator]

70mm is about 2.75", and in the non-headphone world is close to the point where the driver starts to really beam its' high frequencies and might become an issue.  (Most tweeters are are around 26mm or so.)  However, we are not even close to the beaming of a larger driver.  A lot of high frequency perception would depend on the angle of the driver relative to the ear.  Designers are aware of this, but because every one has a different shaped head it would be impossible for everyone to "hear" the same amount of highs as another person.  Given the size of the drivers you will always get mixed results.

 

[gelocks]

  If I'm going to have yet another warm can to choose from on the market, I'd rather get a modded D7k purely for the look and feel of the Wood. Or maybe even a JVX DX 1000 as I could use a nice Bass can for my EDM, like my D2k became eventually
 
Either way, to hear it's lacking the treble extension I've lost interest.
 
I am how ever still interested in the LCD XC, and possibly the TH 900 as at the very least they are standing out in a market of some what over played "warm" sounding cans.

 
And here's a primer of everyone hearing differently...
I never found Denon Dxxxx series dark/warm at all!!! They were either U or V-shaped with no warmness "veil"/signature like the Mad Dogs (or SRH1540s) had.
 
There are obviously not even 10 data points/impressions/reviews and you are ready to dismiss them... jeez man!
 
And sorry to burst your bubble but if you are ready to dismiss the Z7s, don't even think about the LCD-XCs... expensive, not resolving enough, warm sound signature and personally I thought the Alpha Dogs (with 'lowly' T50RP drivers) sounded better for me! (again, hearing differently and stuff... maybe others find the XCs to be the very best closed can there is... not me.)
 
You'd probably be better off with the TH900 but of course...
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595683/fostex-th900-impressions-discussion-thread/2175#post_8833999
 
LOL!
Of course, the TH900s can be found less than $1400 now I believe but, still... .... ....
 

  With the hype train rolling like it is, I'm pretty sure you could sell these at cost or pretty close to it. Look at teh DX 90, massive hype and about a month after it was released there where a ton for sale. Some loved, some hated, some wanted a DX 100 after hearing the 90. 

 
Not as much hype as others I have seen before BUT this happens with most gear (Thank God!!! LOL)
 

I LOVE BOTH!




Regards NOMAX

 
Nice.
 

Originally Posted by zorin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
My worry is that Sony audio engineers, in order to compensate for the insufficient treble, tuned these headphones to have an upper mids peak as a substitute treble of sorts. The've done this trick before with MDR-1R headphones. This kind of peak would wreck [color unpleasantly] any decent vocals. Let us hope that this is not the case.

 
Oh I definitely agree with this!
As a previous MDR-1R owner a couple of years ago, one of my peeves was exactly this dude!!!
And the thing is that the upper mids bump actually made it very hard to increase volume!!!! Once I did that, the sound was just sharp and not in a good way. In fact, I think I had even posted that the MDR-1R was one of those headphones that sounded great, but only at low volumes! To me, that's a big no! So, yeah, hopefully Sony did not go into this direction!
 

  I haven't done a side-by-side leakage comparison, but I'd say the MDR-Z7's leakage is on the low side of moderate. By my definition, there's some leakage--again, the degree to which this is or isn't a problem is going to be determined by how loud one listens, and the tolerance of those around him to a given amount of leakage.
  Again, a lot of pretty specific assumptions being made here. I also have the SRH1540 and Mad Dog--not here at the moment, but at the office--and, by way of memory, I'd say the MDR-Z7 has more treble sparkle than either of those. I'll bring them home this weekend--or after CanJam @ RMAF if I don't have much listening time this weekend (because of CanJam preparation)--and do more direct comparisons then, but I feel reasonably confident in my from-memory comparison in this very specific regard.
 
At the prices I've seen so far (I think around $700 US), in my opinion, the MDR-Z7 is a very strong overall performer and an excellent value.

 
Any leakage is a deal breaker for me sadly!
(I recently sold my Lawton Modded D5000s because of this very same thing... not enough use since I mostly use headphones at the office...) I will still probably try them though.
 
I can live with more treble sparkle than the 1540s/MDs, in fact, I EXPECT them to have more sparkle and "air" than either of those.
 
I think that once all is settled, these will probably sell in the $500 to $600 range. I think I will pit it head to head against the Alpha Dogs (if I haven't sold them), the Enigmas and the Master and Dynamics MH40s!
 
BTW @jude, have you tried the MH40s?!?  ** hint hint **

 

[john57]

I think GIRLS also likes to wear SONY'S Z7??gggggg

NOMAX

So far two women stated that the females voices sounded very realist but that is two data points so far. When I go my Denon D2000 I thought they were terrible headphones very CRAZY U shape response with no bass definition. I sold them five years later at about the same price I paid for them. No mater how many reviews I read or research on, sometimes my ears will tell me that I got fooled.  
 
When I got my 7520 at first the frequency curve did not look good on paper with that large notch in the upper midrange and I did not at first believe that it can be a good headphone. Jude chip in and said not so. Somehow with all the negativity I decided to give it a try and the 7520 turn out to give great detailed sounding headphone and  far greater sound quality than all the measurements ever shown on paper for it. The 7520 turned out to be a keeper and I am more satisfy with it than even comparing it with the HD800.  I have listened to unamplifed acoustical concerts sometimes three concerts a week for the past 15 years. My 7520 has the dynamic treble aliveness that is missing in many of the headphones I have tried. Sony rates the 7520 up to 4,000mW!

What will the Z7 brings to the table for me? Time will tell. With the 7520 I learned an important lesson,  never let the naysayers tell you what your ears should hear.

 

[Makiah S]

   
And here's a primer of everyone hearing differently...
I never found Denon Dxxxx series dark/warm at all!!! They were either U or V-shaped with no warmness "veil"/signature like the Mad Dogs (or SRH1540s) had.
 
There are obviously not even 10 data points/impressions/reviews and you are ready to dismiss them... jeez man!
 
And sorry to burst your bubble but if you are ready to dismiss the Z7s, don't even think about the LCD-XCs... expensive, not resolving enough, warm sound signature and personally I thought the Alpha Dogs (with 'lowly' T50RP drivers) sounded better for me! (again, hearing differently and stuff... maybe others find the XCs to be the very best closed can there is... not me.)
 
You'd probably be better off with the TH900 but of course...
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/595683/fostex-th900-impressions-discussion-thread/2175#post_8833999
 
LOL!
Of course, the TH900s can be found less than $1400 now I believe but, still... .... ....

I don't want to get anything without at least hearing it first, that said any and all wood backs are at least up for consideration. I'm happy with what I have, only reason to upgrade is to get something better, no side grades. And I like the look of my wood backs honestly. An I'm not ready to "dismiss" the Z7 I've just lost interest in reading any reviews for it, since like the LCD XC there's only far left or far right impressions of it. As you know the XC is on my list of Demo before buying. The only headphone I'm ready to buy without a Demo is a D7k, I liked my D2k and I'd be willing to bet teh D7 is a step forward.
 
You could say, I'm ready to dismiss any impressions or reviews at this point. As they really not going to do me any good, as I move forward into better headphones, and into $700 $800 or even $900+ purchases, I'm going to want to hear them before I take a chance an buy any of them.  Through Mid Fi, stuff like the D2k or the HE 400, I'd just buy it just to try it, figured "why not" I could resell it decently. How ever that's really not the case for me any moar. Need to start Demo'in more stuff before I move forward. 

 

[nicolasete]

I think I'm going to jump out of this hype train. Will check back in a few months.
 
 
And back to wanting a pair of DT150 that will prove a much cheaper expense in case they end up disappointing (and will likely get a lot more expensive when I end up buying a dac/amp 6 times the price of the headphones thinking that there is where the fault lies).
 
(ah... why do I even keep coming to this site? planning to buy stuff I don't need with money i don't have xD (and which will most likely be a very marginal and considerably more expensive improvement to my cheap-ass CALs ^^)

 

[TheBoss]

And Here you can see my PERSONAL Ranking with Z7 from/in my COLLECTION
http://www.open-end-music.de/vb3/showpost.php?p=167140&postcount=947

REGARDS NOMAX

 
So the Z7 has bested the CD3000 (second rank to R1) ?
 
Mission Accomplished! ~

 

[sneaglebob]

So are these headphones not really basshead cans? Can they be run from devices like the iphone 5c or the new sony walkman NWZ-A17SLV?

 

[cisko]

So did these sony cans turn out to be the second  coming of the sony MDR R10 I was desperately hoping for?​

 

[Hawaiibadboy]

  So are these headphones not really basshead cans? Can they be run from devices like the iphone 5c or the new sony walkman NWZ-A17SLV?

From the pha 3 and hi res walkman playing "Foreplay" by BOSTON these were outstanding. From a Cowon and an e/12 these were not even great. 320kbps bass tracks are not for this (Sony is quite clear about that themselves) The TH900 can be eq'd to be basshead cans as can the D7000,5000,2000 OR play musically. The Z7 is not intended to go Bass if you want it to.
 
I am the only one I know of that ran this of a mid/lower level source and it is not what these were made for. Most will be happy to know that these are not bass cans but as the TH 900 and others have shown you can kinda do both if you want to.