[up late]

i'm reluctant to make generalisations about headphones apart from saying that the options have increased exponentially since i became involved in this hobby. while grados' can be described as "crystalline" and possibly "hyper-detailed" due to their treble tilt, they combine that with a "euphony" and "liquid" mid-range that makes them sound anything but "cold" and "analytical" to me. the audeze lcd line has "evolved" from the rolled-off treble, meaty mid-range and solid bass foundation of the lcd-2, to the extended highs and estat-like clarity of the lcd-4. the hd800 has been described as "analytical", "cold", "bright", "diffuse", "bass lite", etc, over the years since its introduction, and i can relate to that having never engaged with it. the utopia on the other hand, is a more coherent and engaging headphone than the hd800 to my ears. unlike the hd800, which has a sound signature that seems to start from the top down, the utopia sounds more tonally balanced, while exhibiting exceptional clarity, detail retrieval, imaging and "speed".

the z1r's warmth and weighty bass presentation has more in common with the earlier lcd-2 than the current lcd-4 imo. i'm not sure that the z1r is attempting to redress a sonic trend in totl headphones but it is offering another "flavour", but doesn't every headphone offer its own unique sonic flavour? i wonder what flavour the hd820 will be.

 

[Naim.F.C]

i'm reluctant to make generalisations about headphones apart from saying that the options have increased exponentially since i became involved in this hobby. while grados' can be described as "crystalline" and possibly "hyper-detailed" due to their treble tilt, they combine that with a "euphony" and "liquid" mid-range that makes them sound anything but "cold" and "analytical" to me. the audeze lcd line has "evolved" from the rolled-off treble, meaty mid-range and solid bass foundation of the lcd-2, to the extended highs and estat-like clarity of the lcd-4. the hd800 has been described as "analytical", "cold", "bright", "diffuse", "bass lite", etc, over the years since its introduction, and i can relate to that having never engaged with it. the utopia on the other hand, is a more coherent and engaging headphone than the hd800 to my ears. unlike the hd800, which has a sound signature that seems to start from the top down, the utopia sounds more tonally balanced, while exhibiting exceptional clarity, detail retrieval, imaging and "speed".

the z1r's warmth and weighty bass presentation has more in common with the earlier lcd-2 than the current lcd-4 imo. i'm not sure that the z1r is attempting to redress a sonic trend in totl headphones but it is offering another "flavour", but doesn't every headphone offer its own unique sonic flavour? i wonder what flavour the hd820 will be.

I agree with almost everything you've said.

I'm not however entirely sure about the LCD-2 and Z1R comparison. As someone who owned the LCD-2, and the LCD-3 up until only very recently, I actually think these Audeze cans are darker or warmer sounding than even the Z1R. Whilst all three are bass emphasised, where the Z1R differs is retaining a bit more of that sharpness along with a wider soundstage. To me, the Audeze cans sound slightly more congested and laid back in comparison, especially the LCD-2 which I found too dark for my personal tastes. In that sense, I'd describe the Z1R's as some sort of halfway house between the LCD-2 and the HD800S or T1.1. Side note, I've not yet listened to the LCD-4's so I can't comment on those.

Regarding Grados, I've not heard many of the newer models, but early cans of theirs I listened to were definitely tilted more to the treble side of things, same with AKG, Beyerdynamic etc. With Sennheiser, I'd argue the HD800 was their first major push into that sort of sonic direction, at least that I personally heard anyway. Where previously their top tier headphones like the HD600 and HD650 were tilted towards warmth, the HD800 marked their rebranding of their idea of ultimate sound quality into something far more treble tilted and airy.

My post was more with respect to the way people or manufacturers perceive or refer to certain sonic signatures, for example, the term "reference" I feel has been marketed to refer to cans that are more treble tilted and revealing in nature (HD800, K701, RS1i etc), however, I disagree with this connotation. Reference in this respect refers to being as close as possible to the original source, but I don't think a treble tilt does actually give a closer to source representation. It allows you a better insight into music, eg more instrumental separation, detail, soundstage width etc, but these things aren't necessarily closer to the source, or don't necessarily allow you to hear the music closer to the way the artist intended it. Instead, it's often just a trade-off of hearing more details at the expense of bass presence, texture or tonal accuracy, atmosphere, intimacy etc.

 

[up late]

my point was that the z1r shares less in common with the current audeze flagship than it does with the earlier lcd iterations which were warmer. i'm not suggesting that it sounds the same as them.

grados still have a treble tilt but they are neither cold nor analytical to my ears.

you're using "reference" and "the way the artist intended" subjectively. i think it's more meaningful to say that the z1r reproduces recorded music in a way that you find more satisfying than the other headphones that you have owned, or that it comes closest to how you think the recording should sound.

 

[Naim.F.C]

my point was that the z1r shares less in common with the current audeze flagship than it does with the earlier lcd iterations which were warmer. i'm not suggesting that it sounds the same as them.

grados still have a treble tilt but they are neither cold nor analytical to my ears.

you're using "reference" and "the way the artist intended" subjectively. i think it's more meaningful to say that the z1r reproduces recorded music in a way that you find more satisfying than the other headphones that you have owned, or that it comes closest to how you think the recording should sound.

I suppose the above would be accurate, although I'd say it's not just compared to how I think a recording should sound, but also compared to my experience of real-life recordings, live performances, products, objects, items, vocals and sounds that I am familiar with in real life too, eg engine and transmission sounds, throttle and exhaust backfire, gear shifts and so on of certain vehicles, specific voices (especially of friends and family), certain instruments and so on.

For example, it doesn't really matter what the source is, eg direct stock vehicle recordings, GT Sport, Assetto Corsa, RaceRoom, rFactor, iRacing, The Grand Tour, Top Gear etc, certain more bass light or treble tilted headphones simply do not and can not completely accurately or honestly replicate the notes and sounds I hear from an F-Type, XF-S, M2, M4, 911 GT3 etc in real life. The real thing has the added bass, drama and bellow that only the slightly bassier cans can better replicate.

 

[cjfrbw]

The high bass emphasis that comments have addressed does not seem to exist in my Z1R sample so far. The bass, and the defined low bass, are clear and vibrant, but sound very proportionate and not exaggerated. I suppose the bass response might lift with further break in. I suppose it is also possible that Sony re-tuned the paradigm a bit from their first runs after the beta testers thrashed earlier models. My sample serial number is in the 37 hundreds.

I would be happy if the bass and low bass definition stayed as is. They sound near perfect. The only better bass definition I have heard is from my Stax rig. My Z7 sample is definitely bass-ier than Z1R, albeit not as defined or refined in the lowest bass registers. Z7 has more of a bass reflex kind of sound aka a reverberant peak that is emphasized although pleasant.

 

[Naim.F.C]

The high bass emphasis that comments have addressed does not seem to exist in my Z1R sample so far. The bass, and the defined low bass, are clear and vibrant, but sound very proportionate and not exaggerated. I suppose the bass response might lift with further break in. I suppose it is also possible that Sony re-tuned the paradigm a bit from their first runs after the beta testers thrashed earlier models. My sample serial number is in the 37 hundreds.

I would be happy if the bass and low bass definition stayed as is, they sound perfect and the only better definition I have heard is from my Stax rig. My Z7 sample is definitely bass-ier than Z1R, albeit not as defined or refined in the lowest bass registers and Z7 has more of a bass reflex kind of sound aka a reverberant peak that is emphasized although pleasant.

Mine is 4XX and I'd also say it's far from being overly bassy. It only ever sounds bass emphasised when switching directly from the German cans. That said, both the LCD-2 and LCD-3 to my ears have slightly fuller, more plentiful bass.

For my personal tastes, the Z1R's balance is nigh on ideal, though the bass can on occasion appear ever so slightly slower at times (not necessarily a negative). My guess is that the perception of ever so slightly slower bass speed is perhaps a byproduct of the deeper sub-bass extension. Generally, high-end cans that have less bass (especially sub-bass) presence, tend to appear quicker in bass attack.

 

[music_man]

I like it as much as the R10,010 and other closed back flagships. I own both sonys and others like darthbeyer fostex etc. I like the z1r at least as much but every one has a sound sig. you just have to pick what you like or get them all. this is a flagship. just a little cheaper exterior makes it less than 200k yen not sure why they did that. with a much better cable they are very serious phones. I think they prefer se and ss. just my feeling though.

 

[raybies]

Essentially these warmer cans are trying to re-address what constitutes as accurate or balanced, by saying, no, colder, bass light and hyper revealing isn't necessarily more accurate or reference, and it is instead with slight warmth and more bass impact that you retain the accuracy, emotion and atmosphere of real life live performances, as well as sonic signatures from high end speaker systems. The MDR-Z1R clearly aims to evoke the latter, and I personally appreciate that.

Accurate != balanced;
I don't have a great breadth of HP experience, I went through a number of HPs ~7 years ago and have been very satisfied with the HPs I ended up with after jumping through firey hoops to return the HD800's. At the time I was using Sony ACID to create loops of various frequencies/beats and interpreting how the HPs react, apart from also listening and playing games.

My interpretation of accuracy is the same as with a HT system; the headphones ability to reproduce a series of loops accurately, without failing apart from standing waves/driverdynamics in frequencies from the 10Hz~20kHz.
The HD800's had no problem reproducing the frequencies, but the lower spectrum was rendered with vary low SPL, so the amount of pressure generated by the driver was pathetic (to my ear). By boosting lower frequency dB you could alleviate the issue but at the expense of accuracy... it was like the sound was just escaping out the back, kind of like having IEMs 1/2 out your ear.
Other HPs/IEMs could not reproduce low and high frequencies accurately or at all at the same time.
Some had some post distortion and transience like ported vs sealed subwoofer... I don't like ported subs, the sloppiness drives me nuts, just give me a bigger driver sealed.

The HPs I ended up with were the Denon AH-D5000's which had a nice tight thump for lower freqs, but suffered a little trying to hit those high freqs. so a 10Hz + 14kHz loop sounded like 10Hz + 13kHz in the HD800's but the D5000 created much more pressure at 10Hz and consequently I preferred their signature even if it wasn't as accurate.
I found most Sennheisers to have limited SPL at lower freqs.

Balanced is just a straight FR... which some people prize.
Ultimately our interpretation of sound is subjective, so if I write sweeping statements it should always be understood in this context, and my evaluation methodology is self developed.

I find tone/beat generators and programs like ACID very useful for sound analysis, standing waves and generally tuning a system... they're also very good for eliminating vibrations in your car, or window frames in your house.

Are there any HP's which contain a main driver w/ a tweeter like KEF's Uni-Q? I've always thought this would be excellent for HPs. Manufacturers seem to favour material changes to aid the reproduction of high/low freqs.

 

[up late]

I suppose the above would be accurate, although I'd say it's not just compared to how I think a recording should sound, but also compared to my experience of real-life recordings, live performances, products, objects, items, vocals and sounds that I am familiar with in real life too, eg engine and transmission sounds, throttle and exhaust backfire, gear shifts and so on of certain vehicles, specific voices (especially of friends and family), certain instruments and so on.

For example, it doesn't really matter what the source is, eg direct stock vehicle recordings, GT Sport, Assetto Corsa, RaceRoom, rFactor, iRacing, The Grand Tour, Top Gear etc, certain more bass light or treble tilted headphones simply do not and can not completely accurately or honestly replicate the notes and sounds I hear from an F-Type, XF-S, M2, M4, 911 GT3 etc in real life. The real thing has the added bass, drama and bellow that only the slightly bassier cans can better replicate.

while i can understand that you find the z1r's reproduction of recorded music and sounds more convincing than your other headphones, i can also understand how others may not. the z1r's bass is accentuated relative to the other frequencies. i enjoyed its presentation, but i also enjoy the way the th900 renders bass recognising that it is emphasised relative to the mid-range. again, we're discussing individual perception and preferences here, which are subjective and varied.

 

[nordkapp]

@Naim.F.C. Great summarizations!

 

[cjfrbw]

@Naim.F.C. Great summarization. Your opinion matters here and is valued. After all, this a listening impressions thread. JS.

Yes, thank you Naim.F.C., I also appreciate your talent in articulating your impressions.

 

[up late]

i'd like to think that all listening impressions are regarded as valid here regardless of who is posting them

 

[Sp12er3]

seeing their trend in the recent years (2 years cycle), i think Sony might release a new high end this year. they have positioned Z1R as their signature series, so i really doubt they will launch some high end closed back this year. it has been a while since they release a good open back headphone, and i think this year might be the year.

I surely hope so, They NEED to have something to stand above the already long discontinued MA900.... other than Z1R on closed, I can only look up to HD800S from here....

Also... Flagship IEM. Not a more compact design that NA3AP took on, but a no compromise that continues EX1000's and Z5's legacy.

 

[banco-sg]

I surely hope so, They NEED to have something to stand above the already long discontinued MA900.... other than Z1R on closed, I can only look up to HD800S from here....

Also... Flagship IEM. Not a more compact design that NA3AP took on, but a no compromise that continues EX1000's and Z5's legacy.

Yeah, and the funny thing, HD800 is likely inspired by Sony own Qualia 010. HD800 is not bad, i couldnt love it, but i keep considering it. Hope Sony will have something this year.

 

[music_man]

I was always a huge grado fan. just done with the ps2ke. this is so much different. I really like these though. they are the first headphone I ever heard that sounds like really good loudspeakers. any others to me do not do that nearly as good. I certainly would not call these bass head. coming from grado they just sound, well normal I guess. or at least much more well balanced. I do not use measurement's even though I was an engineer for over 40 years. I just like these. a lot. the imaging soundstage placement is not exactly standing out. these just sound really easy to listen to me. grados cab become very fatiguing.

these have some bass as do all sonys but here I would say it does not step on higher frequencies. I would not really say these are incredibly articulate or exacting. just nice to listen to. a system with too much clarity kind of bothers me. I know, odd. I just think these are very pleasant and polite. very easy to listen to. of course the cable may have balanced things out more. like less bass and just a smooth sound with no transitions. they just sound right to me. therefore I wish they would have used wood, carbon fiber cups or something carbon fiber hangers etc. pushing them into true flagship over 200k yen. they achieved the sound without those nice to look at items. they certainly do not look bad. you have the paper, water and everything. a lot went into them they are hand made. I am sure they were built to a price lacking some niceties. it is the sound that matters.

I do not know if they feel this is an evolution and successor to the r10 and 010 with newer technology. thinking they are in the same lineup. or if they think they are a few notches down. I do not. I have the bass heavy r10 and treble r10 plus 010 fostex etc as I said. I certainly feel these are better. I would not say they are incredibly competent. they just sound good to me. it is all up to an individual what they like and dislike. I am solely speaking for myself. I would highly recommend to purchase the shortest Kimber ag. having a $30,000 cable was scrap and I paid nothing like that. I do think it sounded better than the Kimber but either way the cable will make a difference imo. such a nice box and the stock cable does not befit these headphones imo. I think paired with a good cable they are lovely. I had just been listening to loudspeakers due to no headphone being as good but now I find myself putting these on. if you are looking for something razor exacting I would say forget these. if you just want something that sounds really good these in my opinion are the best I have ever heard. I know that might seem like maybe they are not so great but it depends on what you want. I would say these are very liquid smooth and warm. a pleasant surprise after grados the last couple of years.

I think these do everything right for kicking back and listening. I would not use them in the studio. for some reason I cannot get enough of them. I know my way around headphones. I already knew which amp they were going to need and I was right. I am using a no longer made, good luck getting Cullen gcha with further mods by Cullen. it is se and far better on these than any of my high end balanced amps. out of business now. the ps audio which you may find is not even close especially the Chinese one. feeding with an ayre qx-5 twenty and jriver. I think the amount of bass depends on what you are listening to. edm there is a lot of bass as there should be. for the record I think the cable accounts for about 15% of these sound so perhaps worth your while if you own them. the Kimber ag is plenty good. I think silver is the way to go with these. I prefer an even higher end cable with air tubes etc.

anyways I will say personally these are the best headphones I have ever heard but for different reasons than you may think. I explained it all above. it is very odd, me saying this because they are not what you would expect to make a world class headphone. it will depend on you. I am perfectly fine if 100 people hate them or 1000 for that matter. this is all subjective. the interesting thing is when I ordered them I fully expected to be returning them and replacing the damaged(cats) ps2ke. items of interest. these break in fast not the thousands of hours with grado. I think they prefer solid state and perhaps se. I do not like them with tubes but ymmv. I would not use the stock cable and the sony/Kimber is not a good value imo. I think their obvious competitor is the utopia right now but it is a different sound so not really appropriate to compare. sony is never "expensive" but I do think they could have easily pulled these off for $3,000. which actually I think was about their introductory price. I think they were lowered? anyways if they had put some fancy wood cups or something they would have easily sold them for that. It would not have to change their sound either. So they are in essence $3,000 headphones sans wood cups or what have you, knock off $600+. Regardless imho they are the best headphones to date. They just may not at all be what you are looking for. That is why I always say listen or order with a return policy. you could even order the amazon ww2 but I am against that and generally a bad idea. however they are offering square trade for just $2 and it is fulfilled by amazon. so nothing to lose but I personally really do not condone entering through back doors. it is like tilting the pinball machine imo.

I hope someone finds this helpful. I have not been excited about a headphone in a long time but big time ymmv on this one. I feel I am being fair here. this is certainly not for everyone. just like someone gets a m3 over a corvette. they are both great but serve different purposes and different market segments. I would say this is much more of the m3. not outright performance but everything I need. you may feel very differently and are fully entitled to your opinion. even a certain person whom I will not mention is fully entitled to his as well. that is the beautiful thing about democracy's. That, my friends is a heck of a lot more important than any headphones!