[MacFrank]

Maybe a bit of a stretch, but I am currently looking for a closed back that both sounds relaxed and full as well as shines with relatively low listening volumes. Currently my reference is the DCA AEon 2 Noire, which is a tad too bright and forward for long and quiet listening sessions for my taste. Also, it lacks slam, which I understand to be a planar thing.

Has anyone of you experience with the Z1R in low listening volumes? Also, does anyone have experience with comparing the big Sony to the DCA E3, which seems to exhibit many of the qualities I look for?

Thanks in advance!

 

[slumberman]

Maybe a bit of a stretch, but I am currently looking for a closed back that both sounds relaxed and full as well as shines with relatively low listening volumes. Currently my reference is the DCA AEon 2 Noire, which is a tad too bright and forward for long and quiet listening sessions for my taste. Also, it lacks slam, which I understand to be a planar thing.

Has anyone of you experience with the Z1R in low listening volumes? Also, does anyone have experience with comparing the big Sony to the DCA E3, which seems to exhibit many of the qualities I look for?

Thanks in advance!

I love the Z1R at low volumes: engulfing and emotional. Unfortunately I cannot help with comparisons, as I found my ideal closed back in the Z1R , so I didn’t try anything else

 

[MacFrank]

Thank you so much for your insight, sounds very promising.

 

[Cecala]

A headphone like this needs a quality cable.

I can recommend the DHC Complement C (OCC copper) or DHC Clone Silver (OCC silver) with no splitter on either to open up the soundstage.

The poster asked for a budget cable and you respond with a $600-800 range. I would like to see what you regard as expensive.
In any case, what real differences do these cables provide SQ wise for these phones?

 

[Brainiac9000]

Is there a budget cable that really shines with these? Also…
Is there a thread explaining cable builds / expectations from such dofferent builds?

Aliexpress has a crystal copper cable for the Z1R by a company called "SYRNARN" that is absolutely beautiful for around $130. The braided wire is a rich gold color and contrasts very well with the all-black Z1Rs. In addition, the twist-on connectors are gold and add a nice touch. You can order in various lengths and can terminate with a variety of plugs. I haven't heard ultra high-end cables, so I can't compare, but the Z1Rs sound as great as they always have with this cable. Just search for "SYRNARN Z1R" and it'll pop up for you.

 

[Cecala]

Also:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005754131243.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.13.52353899n8Co9X&algo_pvid=9a6d21bf-9038-4de3-a86e-2e90f98a639e&algo_exp_id=9a6d21bf-9038-4de3-a86e-2e90f98a639e-6&pdp_npi=4@dis!AUD!338.61!202.42!!!226.16!135.20!@2101c71a17247472188542998e2e66!12000034232365569!sea!AU!0!ABX&curPageLogUid=iXZDRh3eWuwx&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:

and

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...DLhQsL8b&utparam-url=scene:search|query_from:

more available.

 

[Vamp898]

Aliexpress has the Shure SE846 for 10% of the MSRP. Aliexpress has an official and certified Shanling Store, even though Shanling says they don't have a store there and no business relation to Aliexpress.

Aliexpress has a lot of things, don't get scammed guys. Sony gear can be bought easily directly in japan from Sony itself or tons of certified dealers

 

[gerelmx1986]

I' ll recommend lavricabkes somenting in their ultimate line... i don't wanna be bashed like @Lookout57 as i'm using Grand line which is something between 600€ and 1000€

 

[Lookout57]

The poster asked for a budget cable and you respond with a $600-800 range. I would like to see what you regard as expensive.
In any case, what real differences do these cables provide SQ wise for these phones?

I said it because it deserves a quality cable not a cheap ChiFi cable. The DHC cables I mentioned are appropriate for a $2,000 headphone. Using a $130 cable on a $2,000 headphone is a waste of money. You'll keep spending money trying to find a better cable. So why spend $130 multiple times to find the right cable, when you can spend $600-$800 once and be done. I've been there and done that with IEM and headphone cables. I bought what was quoted as a pure silver IEM cable for $70 that everyone was raving about on Head-Fi. It sounded better than the Campfire Audio/ALO upgrade cables I had been using, but only lasted a couple of months before it broke at the 4.4MM connector, lesson learned. So I started spending more looking for better quality and sound. I've tried Moon Audio, Kimber AXIOS and Cardas for headphones and Campfire Audio/ALO, Effect Audio and Triton for IEM's before I found DoubleHelix.

The only other cable brand I could recommend but have not heard is Norne, as they use true OCC wire. I know some people love Lavricables but they aren't using OCC silver. I like DoubleHelix because they use the highest quality OCC copper and silver (yes there are differences in OCC in the quality of the copper and silver used that will effect the sound). DHC also uses different construction at different price points that does effect the sound. But the key is the quality of wire used. Just like I find Campfire Audio IEM's providing the best bang for the buck, DHC does the same for cables.

The difference in sound from cables can be significant. The quality of the wire (be aware that the ChiFi companies use whatever they can find cheap and the quality can change from batch to batch, also avoid all plated or alloy cables as they will degrade the sound and I've heard it myself), the number of wires and the construction geometry (Litz type, etc.) is the key. For example, the stock Z1R cable is silver plated and causes people to complain about the harshness in the high end. When I got the Kimber AXIOS Cu the harshness went away, but it still wasn't bringing out the best of the Z1R. That is why I splurged on the Prion4 (back when I could afford it). Due to it's construction of separate wires for the left and right channels and not being braided together along with the OCC Silver wires in a multicore type4/type6 layout brought out the details, deepened the bass and opened the soundstage. To my ears, money well spent.

Another example is when I first got my DHC Complement C, I forgot to add a splitter. When I spoke with Peter he said you can braid it yourself. When I did the sound changed significantly. The soundstage went from wide open and deep to compressed. Now I won't buy a cable with a splitter any more and had him remove the splitter when he converted my extra Clone Silver (was for when I used to commute for work) from MMCX to the Sony 3.5mm.

I've also found that using a quality cable like the DoubleHelix can uncover issues in the playback chain. Once I got the Clone Silver back for the Z1R and listened to it first on my TA-ZH1ES it sounded great, but when I used it on my NW-NW1Z running MrWalkman's firmware I was like why doesn't it sound as good. I ended up changing the Region from J3 to U, disabled Plus V2 mode and it now sounded so much better and closer to the TA-ZH1ES, but different as expected. MrWalkman's firmware is great for the NW-WM1A making it sound closer to the NW-WM1Z, but really not needed on the NW-WM1Z as it's already optimized.

Finally for an expensive cable, it would be the DHC Prion4 $2,000+ or Chimera $3,000+. Both will outperform cables costing twice as much or more. I will say my Clone Silver with no split is close to my Prion4, but the Prion4 is the king. You may say why keep both cables? As the king, the Prion4 is best when I use it with my TA-ZH1ES, it's too unwieldy to use with a XLR to 4.4mm adapter on the NW-NW1Z when I listen in bed. That's why I had my extra Clone silver converted, to get a similar sound but in a more manageable configuration, no adapter need and thinner, lighter wires for listening in bed when I can't sleep.

 

[gerelmx1986]

I said it because it deserves a quality cable not a cheap ChiFi cable. The DHC cables I mentioned are appropriate for a $2,000 headphone. Using a $130 cable on a $2,000 headphone is a waste of money. You'll keep spending money trying to find a better cable. So why spend $130 multiple times to find the right cable, when you can spend $600-$800 once and be done. I've been there and done that with IEM and headphone cables. I bought what was quoted as a pure silver IEM cable for $70 that everyone was raving about on Head-Fi. It sounded better than the Campfire Audio/ALO upgrade cables I had been using, but only lasted a couple of months before it broke at the 4.4MM connector, lesson learned. So I started spending more looking for better quality and sound. I've tried Moon Audio, Kimber AXIOS and Cardas for headphones and Campfire Audio/ALO, Effect Audio and Triton for IEM's before I found DoubleHelix.

The only other cable brand I could recommend but have not heard is Norne, as they use true OCC wire. I know some people love Lavricables but they aren't using OCC silver. I like DoubleHelix because they use the highest quality OCC copper and silver (yes there are differences in OCC in the quality of the copper and silver used that will effect the sound). DHC also uses different construction at different price points that does effect the sound. But the key is the quality of wire used. Just like I find Campfire Audio IEM's providing the best bang for the buck, DHC does the same for cables.

The difference in sound from cables can be significant. The quality of the wire (be aware that the ChiFi companies use whatever they can find cheap and the quality can change from batch to batch, also avoid all plated or alloy cables as they will degrade the sound and I've heard it myself), the number of wires and the construction geometry (Litz type, etc.) is the key. For example, the stock Z1R cable is silver plated and causes people to complain about the harshness in the high end. When I got the Kimber AXIOS Cu the harshness went away, but it still wasn't bringing out the best of the Z1R. That is why I splurged on the Prion4 (back when I could afford it). Due to it's construction of separate wires for the left and right channels and not being braided together along with the OCC Silver wires in a multicore type4/type6 layout brought out the details, deepened the bass and opened the soundstage. To my ears, money well spent.

Another example is when I first got my DHC Complement C, I forgot to add a splitter. When I spoke with Peter he said you can braid it yourself. When I did the sound changed significantly. The soundstage went from wide open and deep to compressed. Now I won't buy a cable with a splitter any more and had him remove the splitter when he converted my extra Clone Silver (was for when I used to commute for work) from MMCX to the Sony 3.5mm.

I've also found that using a quality cable like the DoubleHelix can uncover issues in the playback chain. Once I got the Clone Silver back for the Z1R and listened to it first on my TA-ZH1ES it sounded great, but when I used it on my NW-NW1Z running MrWalkman's firmware I was like why doesn't it sound as good. I ended up changing the Region from J3 to U, disabled Plus V2 mode and it now sounded so much better and closer to the TA-ZH1ES, but different as expected. MrWalkman's firmware is great for the NW-WM1A making it sound closer to the NW-WM1Z, but really not needed on the NW-WM1Z as it's already optimized.

Finally for an expensive cable, it would be the DHC Prion4 $2,000+ or Chimera $3,000+. Both will outperform cables costing twice as much or more. I will say my Clone Silver with no split is close to my Prion4, but the Prion4 is the king. You may say why keep both cables? As the king, the Prion4 is best when I use it with my TA-ZH1ES, it's too unwieldy to use with a XLR to 4.4mm adapter on the NW-NW1Z when I listen in bed. That's why I had my extra Clone silver converted, to get a similar sound but in a more manageable configuration, no adapter need and thinner, lighter wires for listening in bed when I can't sleep.

A similar experience happened to me when i demoed the meze liric 1. At the time i had the axios copper, and noticed how the liric was more detailed than my Z1R (bear in mind that the liric is a planar) despite both being in the same price bracket.

I felt that the axios Cu wasn't delivering the sought performance. So i asked @nc8000 for his lavricables grand... not expecting a big change... the grand did the trick in upping the performance of the Z1R in details like the liric

 

[kefs]

A similar experience happened to me when i demoed the meze liric 1. At the time i had the axios copper, and noticed how the liric was more detailed than my Z1R (bear in mind that the liric is a planar) despite both being in the same price bracket.

I felt that the axios Cu wasn't delivering the sought performance. So i asked @nc8000 for his lavricables grand... not expecting a big change... the grand did the trick in upping the performance of the Z1R in details like the liric

The Liric 2 were my favorite cans at CanJam

 

[CaptainFantastic]

A similar experience happened to me when i demoed the meze liric 1. At the time i had the axios copper, and noticed how the liric was more detailed than my Z1R (bear in mind that the liric is a planar) despite both being in the same price bracket.

I felt that the axios Cu wasn't delivering the sought performance. So i asked @nc8000 for his lavricables grand... not expecting a big change... the grand did the trick in upping the performance of the Z1R in details like the liric

I am using the Axios Cu.

Question - you say the other cable brought out more detail. But did it do this to the detriment of tonality and by slightly icreasing the treble? It's silver, right, so one would expect a slight increase in treble?

 

[Lookout57]

I am using the Axios Cu.

Question - you say the other cable brought out more detail. But did it do this to the detriment of tonality and by slightly icreasing the treble? It's silver, right, so one would expect a slight increase in treble?

A proper built OCC silver cable is not harsh. It is just better able to pass more information, AKA better details and a bigger soundstage.

 

[Cecala]

I said it because it deserves a quality cable not a cheap ChiFi cable. The DHC cables I mentioned are appropriate for a $2,000 headphone. Using a $130 cable on a $2,000 headphone is a waste of money. You'll keep spending money trying to find a better cable. So why spend $130 multiple times to find the right cable, when you can spend $600-$800 once and be done. I've been there and done that with IEM and headphone cables. I bought what was quoted as a pure silver IEM cable for $70 that everyone was raving about on Head-Fi. It sounded better than the Campfire Audio/ALO upgrade cables I had been using, but only lasted a couple of months before it broke at the 4.4MM connector, lesson learned. So I started spending more looking for better quality and sound. I've tried Moon Audio, Kimber AXIOS and Cardas for headphones and Campfire Audio/ALO, Effect Audio and Triton for IEM's before I found DoubleHelix.

The only other cable brand I could recommend but have not heard is Norne, as they use true OCC wire. I know some people love Lavricables but they aren't using OCC silver. I like DoubleHelix because they use the highest quality OCC copper and silver (yes there are differences in OCC in the quality of the copper and silver used that will effect the sound). DHC also uses different construction at different price points that does effect the sound. But the key is the quality of wire used. Just like I find Campfire Audio IEM's providing the best bang for the buck, DHC does the same for cables.

The difference in sound from cables can be significant. The quality of the wire (be aware that the ChiFi companies use whatever they can find cheap and the quality can change from batch to batch, also avoid all plated or alloy cables as they will degrade the sound and I've heard it myself), the number of wires and the construction geometry (Litz type, etc.) is the key. For example, the stock Z1R cable is silver plated and causes people to complain about the harshness in the high end. When I got the Kimber AXIOS Cu the harshness went away, but it still wasn't bringing out the best of the Z1R. That is why I splurged on the Prion4 (back when I could afford it). Due to it's construction of separate wires for the left and right channels and not being braided together along with the OCC Silver wires in a multicore type4/type6 layout brought out the details, deepened the bass and opened the soundstage. To my ears, money well spent.

Another example is when I first got my DHC Complement C, I forgot to add a splitter. When I spoke with Peter he said you can braid it yourself. When I did the sound changed significantly. The soundstage went from wide open and deep to compressed. Now I won't buy a cable with a splitter any more and had him remove the splitter when he converted my extra Clone Silver (was for when I used to commute for work) from MMCX to the Sony 3.5mm.

I've also found that using a quality cable like the DoubleHelix can uncover issues in the playback chain. Once I got the Clone Silver back for the Z1R and listened to it first on my TA-ZH1ES it sounded great, but when I used it on my NW-NW1Z running MrWalkman's firmware I was like why doesn't it sound as good. I ended up changing the Region from J3 to U, disabled Plus V2 mode and it now sounded so much better and closer to the TA-ZH1ES, but different as expected. MrWalkman's firmware is great for the NW-WM1A making it sound closer to the NW-WM1Z, but really not needed on the NW-WM1Z as it's already optimized.

Finally for an expensive cable, it would be the DHC Prion4 $2,000+ or Chimera $3,000+. Both will outperform cables costing twice as much or more. I will say my Clone Silver with no split is close to my Prion4, but the Prion4 is the king. You may say why keep both cables? As the king, the Prion4 is best when I use it with my TA-ZH1ES, it's too unwieldy to use with a XLR to 4.4mm adapter on the NW-NW1Z when I listen in bed. That's why I had my extra Clone silver converted, to get a similar sound but in a more manageable configuration, no adapter need and thinner, lighter wires for listening in bed when I can't sleep.

Since you have both the DHC Clone Silver & DHC Complement C cables, how do these two differ on the MDR-Z1Rs?
On a somewhat related note (if you know), would a THX-AAA type topology benefit the MDR-Z1Rs or would a discrete/op-amp be superior?

 

[gerelmx1986]

I am using the Axios Cu.

Question - you say the other cable brought out more detail. But did it do this to the detriment of tonality and by slightly icreasing the treble? It's silver, right, so one would expect a slight increase in treble?

Yes, I know an increasing detail when changing the cable from axios cu to lavricables grand, which opposed to the cu the grand is pure silver.. and not the travel is not harsh The ground signal of the headphone is maintained on the enhanced.