[Devodonaldson]

Okay...Tidal Musix officially but perfect with usb transport on Android now using the Tifal Music app. So....when can Sony give the Tidal app access to its internals? I plug any USB DAC into X507 I grt bit perfect, but I want it straight from the Sony internals

 

[rmkjr]

@emilsoft random curiosity question. When you notice the Bluetooth differences what is you source? Local files through the music player app, or some other app? Also, under Settings -> Sound, do you have high-res streaming on or off?

I wonder if the Android SRC piece also gets involved in the Bluetooth encoding.

The Sony Android DAPs don’t have a full SRC bypass, but they do have that high-res option to pin it up at 192kHz. I’d be curious if that changes your perception.

 

[ttt123]

I am not talking about "Subjective feelings".
People on this forum have claimed that security updates change the sound signature on their devices, so it's complete madness in case of some of our colleagues.

Can you point me to a study that confirms that there is a sound quality difference between devices, even though it's the headphones DAC that is responsible for processing the data? Yes or no?

Multiple users have confirmed that they hear a difference, with "their setup". Take that for what it is worth, "to you".
Personally, I am fine with believing what I am hearing, and using that to make preferences for myself. There is no intent, or desire, or need, to prove or convince anyone else that what I am hearing is gospel. It is not, and only applies to me, and my setup.

Understand that you need studies, graphs, to prove that there is a difference, and that is fine. Different systems, and beliefs, are a given in this hobby. Enjoying the music is the common goal, whatever your system and/or beliefs.

Audioholics are notably fanatic, stubborn, and opinionated, about everything, and need to make up their own minds, through their own personal observations/listening, and their own required level of "proof". And this is the "norm".

 

[nanaholic]

Everyone knows how the AAC implementation in Android works - it's not a secret that it's the Apple's default codec. How is that relevant to LDAC, though? If you force it to work in high quality mode, there should be no difference whatsoever. Please point me to the result of studies that prove otherwise.

It's relevant because you are claiming if the codec is the same then any difference a user experience can only be placebo - when this shows it isn't the case in AAC not just between Apple and Android but even amongst different Android device, which refutes your "codecs are all the same" claim.

There's currently no study on LDAC, but it's not impossible that the implementation of LDAC is different in different devices which leads to different sounds.

 

[emilsoft]

It seems there is some funny business with ZX507 LDAC - it keeps being stuck on adaptive no matter where I put it to max (Sony's app, bluetooth settings etc), which might explain why I hear bit of harshness and smaller soundstage compared to the M11 Plus.. However I read online that apparently there is LDAC performance option in Sony's Music Center app (in addition to the Sony headphones app - bit confusing) and enabling that option to high performance apparently forces the high bitrate at all times (Sony using Android 9 gray area undocumented APIs to force it apparently) .. anyway, i'm checking now it seems like the sound has lost that slight harshness and is a bit wider, with gained focus and micro details

Now this might be an Android 9 bug - I've been reading that many devices suffer from locked LDAC bitrate, so maybe if you're reading this Sony, time to upgrade to Android 10/11 and give us an easier way to push max LDAC quality on your audiophile DAP

it would be good if someone can try and compare also:

1. Turn off bluetooth
2. Go to settings > connection prefs > bluetooth > wireless playback quality > LDAC high perf
3. Go to Sony Headphone app: enable LDAC high perf
4. Go to Sony Music Center app: enable LDAC high perf (maybe you need to connect bluetooth here to see the option)
5. Disconnect/Reconnect bluetooth.

 

[iFi audio]

mind you some DACs do their own high quality re-clocking and don't care about the source too much like my Apogee Element - I can put a crappy chromecast dongle on optical in vs a high quality spdif decrapifier, it will sound the same.. but try this on another DAC, say the ifi micro and immediately one can tell.

Different sound at a different digital input not always means that a DAC has one weaker (less cleaned up) than the other. What's sent to a DAC and from where also matters, no ?

 

[qua2k]

so maybe if you're reading this Sony, time to upgrade to Android 10/11 and give us an easier way to push max LDAC quality on your audiophile DAP

I am unsure if this is possible. the hardware of the 503 might be limited to Android 9. I noticed a bit of slowness when I tried the latest PowerAmp on it, reverted back to the Sony player as I feel PowerAmp is a little too much for the small screen.

 

[emilsoft]

I am unsure if this is possible. the hardware of the 503 might be limited to Android 9. I noticed a bit of slowness when I tried the latest PowerAmp on it, reverted back to the Sony player as I feel PowerAmp is a little too much for the small screen.

Android 10 should be even more optimised, if it supports 9 it should support 10 likely... if they don't update it to 10 most likely it'll be because of lack of effort. I'm hopeful but I think there's 50-50 chance they won't do it.. I wish Sony took this player bit more seriously, maybe if their mobile division picks up a bit.

 

[tonyg1]

Sorry this reply is very late in coming. I think the problem with remote control is down to the Sony-proprietory wiring of the headphone jack - the NW-ZX300 had the same issue. While the ZX500 now uses the Android operating system I think the 3.5mm audio jack is probably the same as that in the ZX-300, and it has 3 wires not 4, which most remotes (whether BT or a wired in-line remote control module) require to work with Android devices. So audio will pass through fine, but not remote operating functions. When I got my NW-ZX300 I bought a set of Bose QC20 (Android version) noise cancelling earphones after talking to a Sony support engineer on-line. (I already had the QC20 Apple version, which would only pass audio. The Android QC 20s didn't work, and it was after that I found out that the issue is the 3.5mm jack wiring.

So I went out and bought a BT remote control (Satechi brand) just for kicks. It works fine on my PC, Samsung Galaxy S10e, iPhone, and the A&K Kann Cube. The ZX507 finds it, pairs with it, but wont connect after that. WHY???

Why is Sony messing with basic functionality like this and the universal media playback commands?

 

[ttt123]

Sorry this reply is very late in coming. I think the problem with remote control is down to the Sony-proprietory wiring of the headphone jack - the NW-ZX300 had the same issue. While the ZX500 now uses the Android operating system I think the 3.5mm audio jack is probably the same as that in the ZX-300, and it has 3 wires not 4, which most remotes (whether BT or a wired in-line remote control module) require to work with Android devices. So audio will pass through fine, but not remote operating functions. When I got my NW-ZX300 I bought a set of Bose QC20 (Android version) noise cancelling earphones after talking to a Sony support engineer on-line. (I already had the QC20 Apple version, which would only pass audio. The Android QC 20s didn't work, and it was after that I found out that the issue is the 3.5mm jack wiring.

The 3.5mm audio jack has 4 wires in a TRRS layout. This can be used for a separated ground output. Each channel has a dedicated Grd ( R+/R- and L+/L-) instead of the Common Grd in the normal 3 wire TRS configuration (R+/L+/R&L GRD) HiFiMan(and some other companies) supports the same TRRS separated Grd output.
The Sony DAPs, ZX, WM series, all have this TRRS capability on the 3.5mm. This provides a separate ground for each channel. This is not true balanced, but sounds better than just TRS. The Sony automatically detects the TRRS jack and switches to separated ground.

The normal 4 contact TRRS 3.5mm found on phones, uses TRS for audio, and uses the 4th contact for the microphone.

The Sony DAP (and most others) do not have a microphone. Only the older model (much older) DAPs had combined earphone remote controls. These were usually all in one, and proprietory. Some models implemented a short dongle with the microphone, and a female 3.5mm jack to plug a separate earphone into.

With todays market demands, there is no market for a wired dongle with remote, to plug into a DAP, and then plug a multiple $K IEM with special cables into this dongle, with unknown wiring and the extra complexity of an added circuit board and contacts, with the potential sound deterioration this could cause. Thus this capability is not built into DAPs. And it is highly doubtful that they ever will be.

Sony DAPs will only work with the small Sony remote. Why does it not work with a generic BT remote is a good question. Unfortunately, there is no answer....

 

[riclib]

Sonly DAPs will only work with the small Sony remote. Why does it not work with a generic BT remote is a good question. Unfortunately, there is no answer....

Thanks that explains why I’ve never succeeded

 

[TooFrank]

Different sound at a different digital input not always means that a DAC has one weaker (less cleaned up) than the other. What's sent to a DAC and from where also matters, no ?

+1 FWIW: I didn’t believe this until I tried a dedicated streamer. Although not a wireless system, the streamer made - to my ears - a significant change to the output from my dac...yes I was surprised because I thought it was all about 0s and 1s. It’s a bit more weird as you cannot measure the difference, but only hear it...

 

[emilsoft]

+1 FWIW: I didn’t believe this until I tried a dedicated streamer. Although not a wireless system, the streamer made - to my ears - a significant change to the output from my dac...yes I was surprised because I thought it was all about 0s and 1s. It’s a bit more weird as you cannot measure the difference, but only hear it...

We can't measure it using the simplistic methods ASR employs for example but using more elaborated tests like spectral decays and other more microscopic details in terms of how the data arrives before hitting the DAC I'm sure its possible. How does the relocked signal look like etc - I'm sure companies that build their own standalone clocks (like apogee) have their expert lab measurements. Problem is us headfiers are easily swayed by "enthusiast" measurers who gives us snr/thd and freq response, and that is supposed to tell us how all "good" measuring DACs should sound the same, but it's so much more complex..

 

[Sonywalkmanuser]

The 3.5mm audio jack has 4 wires in a TRRS layout. This can be used for a separated ground output. Each channel has a dedicated Grd ( R+/R- and L+/L-) instead of the Common Grd in the normal 3 wire TRS configuration (R+/L+/R&L GRD) HiFiMan(and some other companies) supports the same TRRS separated Grd output.
The Sony DAPs, ZX, WM series, all have this TRRS capability on the 3.5mm. This provides a separate ground for each channel. This is not true balanced, but sounds better than just TRS. The Sony automatically detects the TRRS jack and switches to separated ground.

The normal 4 contact TRRS 3.5mm found on phones, uses TRS for audio, and uses the 4th contact for the microphone.

The Sony DAP (and most others) do not have a microphone. Only the older model (much older) DAPs had combined earphone remote controls. These were usually all in one, and proprietory. Some models implemented a short dongle with the microphone, and a female 3.5mm jack to plug a separate earphone into.

With todays market demands, there is no market for a wired dongle with remote, to plug into a DAP, and then plug a multiple $K IEM with special cables into this dongle, with unknown wiring and the extra complexity of an added circuit board and contacts, with the potential sound deterioration this could cause. Thus this capability is not built into DAPs. And it is highly doubtful that they ever will be.

Sony DAPs will only work with the small Sony remote. Why does it not work with a generic BT remote is a good question. Unfortunately, there is no answer....

ZX507 does have a built in microphone but not that you will use it.
https://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/nwzx500/v1/en/contents/TP0002432970.html

 

[ttt123]

ZX507 does have a built in microphone but not that you will use it.
https://helpguide.sony.net/dmp/nwzx500/v1/en/contents/TP0002432970.html

I see the manual describes a monarual microphone at no. 14, the front lower right. Taking a look, I cannot find any microphone hole, and unless the microphone uses the glass faceplate as a pickup, I don't see a microphone there. Makes me wonder if there really is a microphone? Not to worry, though, as I can't think of a use for it either.