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Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by leylandi, Nov 16, 2014.
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  1. udesign48
    I see.. so only ZX300 and WM1A come with 4.4mm balanced then?

    Anyways, what do you guys think about PHA-3 balanced out vs Sony ZX2 3.5mm out?
  2. kms108
    consider the ZX300.
  3. surfgeorge
    ZX2 has one 3,5mm connector which supports both 3,5mm single ended AND 3,5mm balanced.
    Unusual, but not a bad idea IMO

    The 3,5mm balanced cables can be used with any 3,5mm SE device as well
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  4. kms108
    It does not support balanced, it supports separate grounding TRRS, this is not balanced.
    Mathieulh likes this.
  5. udesign48
    hmm... do you guys think ZX2 sounds better using that TRRS mode (balanced)?

    I know MEE Audio has 3.5mm balanced MMCX cable.
  6. msiekkb
    A little better, because bass more controlled.
    udesign48 likes this.
  7. udesign48
    hmm I wonder why Sony haven't released any 3.5mm balanced MUC cable.
  8. Sonic Defender Contributor
    Balanced can provide more power which can help when needed with more difficult loads and it has common mode rejection, but the noise rejected unless from a very poorly designed/implemented audio circuit should be virtually inaudible. This is especially true with really short runs of cable such as in personal audio. The notion that balanced sounds better is quite contested even among audio circuit, electrical engineers. It can be useful when you need more power, but really if you are hearing the common-mode noise balanced architectures can reject you either have incredible, super-human hearing or are using an audio system with a fault.

    Here is a quote about some examples when balanced architectures are advantageous
    "Balanced audio-signal transmission is useful in many environments, such as concert venues, sports arenas and professional recording studios ..."
    source: http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt737/slyt737.pdf

    The signal to noise ratios that commonly favour balanced audio circuits are not audible. I wish I could find the article I once read, but essentially signal to noise ratios better than something like 70db are audibly transparent to the listener. I am not saying circuit designs should aim to only be at the minimum, but rather that people should be realistic about what they can actually hear as opposed to what we can measure with instruments.
    Last edited: May 27, 2019
  9. cfc7
    TRRS will be an improvement over the single ended, not only for the bass.
    The difference is not huge but is audible.
  10. Sonic Defender Contributor
    I'll stop posting on this point as this isn't the sound science forum so my apology, but that is not my experience at all. If I level match the SPL between SE and balanced I can't hear any audible difference. I still like the balanced circuits for more power. For example I have ordered a 2.5TRRS terminated cable for a headphone that I like to drive from my Q5's balanced input, but it lacks the power for this particular headphone to get to the SPL that I prefer.
  11. cfc7
    My experience was that I didn't want to believe in this difference and I found it accidentally so I didn't have any reasons to suspect some autosuggestion and not to continue with TRRS vs SE.
    And as long as it is audible, I'm not interested by any measurements or science here to say that it is an improvement.
  12. Sonic Defender Contributor
    :thinking: Ok, science be damned then. It's all good.
  13. cfc7
    That was not the idea.
    I'm using FR graphs as guidance and other measurements but in the end my ear will decide what sounds good for me.
    And there are many others which can hear a difference between SE and balanced but who knows...maybe we are all under placebo effect.
  14. Sonic Defender Contributor
    It is a very well established, common and validated effect so it is extremely reasonable to suspect it.
  15. TooFrank
    FWIW: My experience is from the silver cable with trrs I bought for my UE900. Don’t know whether it was the silver, the cable or the trrs, but to my ears it definitely sounded better (more details and resolution) with my zx2 compared with the UE900 stock cable. But as always, there may be “buying bias”:ksc75smile:
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