SONY NW-WM1Z / WM1A
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Aug 4, 2020 at 2:11 PM Post #42,436 of 45,723

kova4a

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On this front, I agreed, but nevertheless, wm1Z is perfectly capable, and so it has the sticker :)
Nah, I disagree. Hi-res playback suggests that a source can reproduce at least the industry standard for 24-bit which is in the 120-125db range, not only to have an extended frequency response. You can have a computer generated sound in a musci album, game or a movie that exceeds the limitations of live recordings and we may evolve to be able to listen to 120+db without hearing damage and wm1z won't be able to take advantage of that. So with that said the sony is capable of playing hi-res files but is not capable of reproducing hi-res audio regardless of whether the information is available in the file or whether we can hear the difference.
 
Aug 4, 2020 at 2:13 PM Post #42,437 of 45,723

Redcarmoose

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Aug 4, 2020 at 2:30 PM Post #42,438 of 45,723

kova4a

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To the contrary. Your posts are exactly not avoiding the hi-res discussion. They are instigating it, in some wild form of backwards forwardness.
You got me. To be honest, I think the entire hi-res discussion is pointless given how bad music albums keep being mastered and compressed, but it's something that Sony has been pushing to the consumers as the first DAP I ever saw with the sticker was the NW-A10. Now manufacturers even pack extra hi-res sticker in the boxes which is even more ridiculous. Personally, I got a bunch of those "It'a Sony" stickers that I grew up with - now, that's a sticker I would put on a Walkman.
 
Aug 4, 2020 at 3:00 PM Post #42,439 of 45,723

Redcarmoose

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You got me. To be honest, I think the entire hi-res discussion is pointless given how bad music albums keep being mastered and compressed, but it's something that Sony has been pushing to the consumers as the first DAP I ever saw with the sticker was the NW-A10. Now manufacturers even pack extra hi-res sticker in the boxes which is even more ridiculous. Personally, I got a bunch of those "It'a Sony" stickers that I grew up with - now, that's a sticker I would put on a Walkman.

I actually like how new music sounds. I’m fine with 16/44.1 and think I truly hear a difference over 320kbps? All of us are at this point in time and at this very place.........on this exact thread due to steps we took based on ideas and values regarding our understanding of increases in sound quality due to actions in one direction or another. One set of values were held as an idea to navigate the jungle of audiophile pitfalls and truisms. Thus our view of a subjective (audio) reality based on sound perceptions was all we could grasp. Placebo or truth we thought what we heard was real, we read and took up mentors and theories. We put dollars on the table and moved forward in one direction because we thought it was correct. Why shouldn’t we defend our values? I’m simply showing you that you refer to not pushing an agenda for the frivolousness of 24bit, when in fact it’s what you came here for. Somehow people get emotional about this or that cause. A single cause can be more motivating than most people think. Thus coming on a forum about a hi-res player and belittling what the basic design root concepts the Sony invented cosmogony is based on.
 
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Aug 4, 2020 at 3:24 PM Post #42,441 of 45,723

kova4a

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I actually like how new music sounds. I’m fine with 16/44.1 and think I truly hear a difference over 320kbps? All of us are at this point in time and at this very place.........on this exact thread due to steps we took based on ideas and values regarding our understanding of increases in sound quality due to actions in one direction or another. One set of values were held as an idea to navigate the jungle of audiophile pitfalls and truisms. Thus our view of a subjective (audio) reality based on sound perceptions was all we could grasp. Placebo or truth we thought what we heard was real, we read and took up mentors and theories. We put dollars on the table and moved forward in one direction because we thought it was correct. Why shouldn’t we defend our values? I’m simply showing you that you refer to not pushing an agenda for the frivolousness of 24bit, when in fact it’s what you came here for. Somehow people get emotional about this or that cause. A single cause can be more motivating than most people think. Thus coming on a forum about a hi-res player and belittling what the basic design root concepts the Sony invented cosmogony is based on.
Nah, I came here coz I was interested to read about that new custom firmware for the 1z/1a and then saw the comments about shigzeo's opinion, which came out pretty defensive as if people read his other measurement reviews, they would see that he liked the zx300 and a lot of other stuff from random manufacturers, so he's not a blind fanboy or just hating on sony for no reason. An yeah, there is difference between mp3 and CD quality because it's within the audible range. As far as badly mastered music goes - I can't stand the compression. It was great when I was a kid and music sounded louder but nowadays I care about details and treble extension and often times vinyl rips are my only option to properly enjoy certain albums.
 
Aug 4, 2020 at 3:29 PM Post #42,442 of 45,723

Sonywalkmanuser

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Nah, I disagree. Hi-res playback suggests that a source can reproduce at least the industry standard for 24-bit which is in the 120-125db range, not only to have an extended frequency response. You can have a computer generated sound in a musci album, game or a movie that exceeds the limitations of live recordings and we may evolve to be able to listen to 120+db without hearing damage and wm1z won't be able to take advantage of that. So with that said the sony is capable of playing hi-res files but is not capable of reproducing hi-res audio regardless of whether the information is available in the file or whether we can hear the difference.

Even for movies industry, hearing damage from watching movies with too loud content is real. The Cinemas even have to reduce the output levels so as not to affect the other neighbor movie screening or even to avoid legal repercussions in some countries.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2017/6/21/loudness-and-dynamics-in-cinema-sound

It's All Too Loud!
It's not just commercials and trailers that are played back much lower than '7'. Because the audience started to complain more and more about the main movie being too loud, cinemas have responded and reduced the level of the main movie too and there are good reasons for the complaints.

The Flemish Association for Tinnitus and Hyperacusis measured sound levels in several cinemas in Belgium. They measured peak levels up to 118 dBA! How is that possible? Well: one channel is calibrated for 85 dBC at -21 LUFS and therefore peaks at approximately 105 dBSPL. But there are 4 channels (surrounds are measured as one), which means 6 dB more. With full-scale clipping distortion, you gain another 3 dB per channel, and of course close to a speaker the level can be higher than in the middle of the room. 118 dBA seems insane, but in theory, it is possible. And the future is interesting. With Dolby Atmos, every single channel is calibrated to 85 dBC. The Atmos peak demand is 115 dBC per loudspeaker. A system can have 64 speakers, or in other words, the theoretical maximum SPL can be 133 dBC...

The Damage Is Done
In Belgium, in September 2010 a 17-year-old girl suffered permanent tinnitus when visiting the movie Inception. This received a lot of attention from the press and the government. In Kinepolis' cinemas, the absolute maximum is 5.5, with position 5 as the norm. This summer (2013) the Belgian government will make a law for a maximum allowed loudness levels in cinemas. They might even put a legal maximum level to the volume control.

But in general, it is not the risk of hearing damage that makes cinemas turn the volume down. It's the audience complains that the film is too loud, even long before it becomes a potential threat for their hearing. Another cause for complaints is that due to poor sound isolation loud scenes of the neighbour's movie disturb their own. Because of this, many cinemas turn the volume down and also modify the original calibration of the cinema. LFE's are often turned down to limit crosstalk to the neighbouring room and many times the balance between C, L, R and surrounds is off. Nevertheless, it seems like many cinemas are at least calibrated once in a while for a festival and I think the average cinema will be quite close to SMPTE calibration. Deviations from this are certainly not the main cause for a playback lower than 7.

We should emphasise that SMPTE calibration is important and should remain the reference, even with DCP workflows.
 
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Aug 4, 2020 at 3:39 PM Post #42,443 of 45,723

Redcarmoose

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Nah, I came here coz I was interested to read about that new custom firmware for the 1z/1a and then saw the comments about shigzeo's opinion, which came out pretty defensive as if people read his other measurement reviews, they would see that he liked the zx300 and a lot of other stuff from random manufacturers, so he's not a blind fanboy or just hating on sony for no reason. An yeah, there is difference between mp3 and CD quality because it's within the audible range. As far as badly mastered music goes - I can't stand the compression. It was great when I was a kid and music sounded louder but nowadays I care about details and treble extension and often times vinyl rips are my only option to properly enjoy certain albums.

Yes, he had a Japanese language ZX300. Interestingly the local ZX300 players in Japan were set-up as “domestic” and stayed in Japanese with no other language option. Hopefully the region tool can change that now for people who want other languages in Japan with local ZX300 players. Talking with the gal at the Tokyo Sony flagship store, she nicely informed me that since I was used to the 1Z and 1A UI, I could use a Japanese language one? Lol.
 
Aug 4, 2020 at 3:40 PM Post #42,444 of 45,723

Mystic Traveller

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No it does not. Sony has the scale and investment dollars to go with ASIC DACs instead of FPGA.
Oh, that's really interesting - thanks!! :) - as myself and actually many others kept thinking otherwise.
Where can I read about those ASIC DACs, never heard of them before - just some schematics and principles
for a humanitarian. :)
I've had my 1A for a couple of weeks only but must admit that before with my previous DAPs I've never heard that different FW versions can cause such audible difference in sound delivery,
like new FW from our colleague can greatly reduce a difference sound wise between 1A and 1Z.
 
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Aug 4, 2020 at 3:42 PM Post #42,445 of 45,723

Sonywalkmanuser

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There is a good reason for high resolution audio and that is during the digital recording and mastering process, there is more headroom for the mastering engineer to do the correct mixing of different microphones or sounds and avoid clipping

 
Aug 4, 2020 at 3:45 PM Post #42,446 of 45,723

Redcarmoose

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Nah, I came here coz I was interested to read about that new custom firmware for the 1z/1a and then saw the comments about shigzeo's opinion, which came out pretty defensive as if people read his other measurement reviews, they would see that he liked the zx300 and a lot of other stuff from random manufacturers, so he's not a blind fanboy or just hating on sony for no reason. An yeah, there is difference between mp3 and CD quality because it's within the audible range. As far as badly mastered music goes - I can't stand the compression. It was great when I was a kid and music sounded louder but nowadays I care about details and treble extension and often times vinyl rips are my only option to properly enjoy certain albums.

The new Firmware IS something. I haven’t used my 1Z for a week. The 1A in J region is amazing along with the switcher to 1Z and 1A/Z+.
 
Aug 4, 2020 at 3:54 PM Post #42,447 of 45,723

Sonywalkmanuser

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On why S-Master HX is not used for DMP-Z1:
The reason for not choosing S-Master is...
The DMP-Z1 launched this time is different from previous players. It did not use Sony’s proud S-Master digital amplifier. Instead, it was replaced with Asahi Kasei’s AK4497EQ DAC decoder chip. For the ear amplifier, TPA6120A2 was used. Audio chip. Another acoustic engineer, Hiroro Sato, explained the reason for not choosing S-Master: "The team hopes to make a player with a higher output power. The balanced output power of the DMP-Z1 can reach 1,500mW. If S-Master is used It’s difficult to reach this level. But I want to emphasize that Sony has not stopped developing the S-Master. This is still the key sound technology of the Walkman, but it is not suitable for use on the DMP-Z1 this time.” In addition, the in-camera collocation H-shaped aluminum metal chassis, gold-plated volume knob and other components, Sato Hiroro said that he had used different metal materials to make many prototypes and found the best combination. When tuning the sound, he will not deliberately tune for a certain Sony headset. He also considers that different users have different timbre requirements. Other brands of headsets, such as AKG, Sennheiser, etc., will also be used.

https://www.spill.hk/audiovisual/Sony-Electrical-Engineer-Tomoaki-Sato-Hiroaki-Sato-interview/
 
Aug 4, 2020 at 4:40 PM Post #42,449 of 45,723

Maxx134

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I like them a lot
15964482136541601086246909880484.jpg
Sweet setup.
From my experience, it is the largest soundstage sounding closed headphones.

All things I have mention cannot be proven in a Double Blind Test
Haha, pretty much everything & anything audio tested this way cannot be 100% proven! Haha figure that out.
:)

You cant go wrong with that pair, and if you got them for less than 100 usd, it’s a true bargain, they are so easy to drive, have a perfect balance with a bit of weight in the bass area, really good pair of headphones


Not everyone can afford only campfire and totl iems, and maybe some want to experiment with their sound
These are my fav portables as well.
:)

What if its our ears or tastes that need EQ.
I have EQ'd since I was a teen. Without EQ everything sounds like garbage to me.
I noticed a "juicy" effect to the sound in past with EQ.
Also the best EQ I tried, was the digital EQ option inside "Roon" player.
:)

Has anyone used the wm1A/Z as a line out to an Amp? How is it?
Me too, I using the single ended output for line out to single ended amp.
Have to have volume set at full, so the new MrWalkman's update will be a big help.

Small update:
What! That's small?!!
This is HUGE!
:beerchug:
 
Aug 4, 2020 at 4:48 PM Post #42,450 of 45,723

bflat

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Oh, that's really interesting - thanks!! :) - as myself and actually many others kept thinking otherwise.
Where can I read about those ASIC DACs, never heard of them before - just some schematics and principles
for a humanitarian. :)
I've had my 1A for a couple of weeks only but must admit that before with my previous DAPs I've never heard that different FW versions can cause such audible difference in sound delivery,
like new FW from our colleague can greatly reduce a difference sound wise between 1A and 1Z.

Here is a very high level comparison - https://numato.com/blog/differences-between-fpga-and-asics/

ASIC chips (Application Specific Integrated Circuits) are just as the name implies - manufactured for a specific application. FPGA chips are general purpose devices where one can burn in code to make it do specific applications. Because FPGA chips need to be general purpose, they are physically larger, consume more power, and cannot run as efficiently as ASIC. However, even with ASIC there is a further refinement. All ESS, AKM, BB, TI DAC chips are ASIC, but each of their ASIC DACs support multiple audio applications and uses so there are added features and power consumption that doesn't always benefit DAP applications. Sony has taken the ASIC benefits and taken it to an even more specific use - only for 2 channel audio output for low power (Class D). Add in Sony specific DSP features and you got a DAC chip that only works for Sony.

Basically Sony is the only audio device maker who also has their own proprietary ASIC that is purely built for their specific devices and nobody else. I am only commenting on the physical DAC chip and not the whole device. Clearly the FPGA chips have allowed Chord to come out with high end DACs to a niche market and they have one of the best audio engineers in the world who develops the DAC code for their FPGA chips so his algorithms are optimized for their application. However, that same FPGA chip is used by hundreds of other companies for thousands of other applications so it's safe to assume there are at least a few features/pins of the FPGA chip that Chord doesn't use.
 
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