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Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by leylandi, Jul 30, 2016.
  1. Pablovi
    That’s really the case if you go from 2.5mm and 3.5mm balanced. But according to Moon-Audio, the 4.4mm has a 5th connection that you can use as ground.

    The grounding scheme of portable players have essentially virtual grounds since they can't be tied to an earth ground. However, when you connect a DAP to a 2 channel stereo system with a true earth ground, some problems can occur. It is not an issue if you connect the 3.5mm single ended output to an RCA input connection on your preamp but when trying to connect a 2.5mm TRRS balanced portable player which only has 4 poles and no ground connection a special connector as used on the AK Players is required.

    This connector block has a 2.5mm TRRS connection and also a 3.5mm TRS connection. The ground from the 3.5mm is used to tie the ground of the Astell & Kern to the ground plane of the preamp. Just doing a 2.5mm TRRS connector to XLRs can often result in a hum issue. Why? There is no ground plane thus why it causes a grounding issue which results in the hum.

    See this special AK connector here.

    Silver Dragon Portable Interconnect V3

    There is a new connection that we are hoping gets adopted by more manufacturers. It is called the 4.4mm TRRS. This plug has 5 contacts for a balanced connection and the 5th contact eliminates the grounding issue. Sony is pushing this connection and some companies are starting to adopt it like Sennheiser. We have adopted it on our audio cables and will be implementing it on future Headphone Amp designs.“
    Vitaly2017 and Sp12er3 like this.
  2. nc8000 Contributor
    that is correct but sony has not used the ground pin in the wm players. Some modders have internally modded the wm players connecting the 5th pin in the 4.4 to the ground from the 3.5 in effect getting the same result as the box you refer
    Sp12er3, fiascogarcia and Pablovi like this.
  3. Pablovi

    Thanks! Why on earth Sony doesn’t wire the 5th connection? That’s why they invented the 4.4mm balanced jack.

    So, you cannot use a 4.4mm to RCA with the WM players? It won’t convert to unbalanced. But you can keep the balanced signal with a 4.4mm to 2 3-pin XLR’s?
  4. nanaholic
    They didn't invent it. NDICS invented it and convinced Sony to use it first.

    I keep having to clarify this but many of the online reviews keep repeating the same mistake saying Sony invented the 4.4mm standard - they really didn't.
    Sp12er3 and Pablovi like this.
  5. Pablovi
    Ok, even if they didn’t invented it. They’re the only ones using it. And the only advantage to do it is the added ground connection.
  6. nc8000 Contributor
    to me the main advantage beyond being able to do balanced is that is mechanically much more robust than the 2.5
  7. nc8000 Contributor
    Yes that is correct
  8. nc8000 Contributor
    there are other daps using 4.4 besides sony and sennheiser use it on the 820 amp. Probably others use it as well but sony were first. They probably didn’t wire ground as it is no needed for balanced headphones
  9. ttt123
    I did a quick search for which DAPs use a 4.4mm output (besides the Sony WM1A/Z, ZX300)...There are quite a few, hopefully indicating industry acceptance of the 4.4mm as a preferred balanced output. Wonder if AK will ever change from their 2.5mm. Maybe only if everybody else adopts 4.4, and they find they are losing customers due to only having 2.5mm balanced out.....Personally, I will probably not buy a DAP if it only has a 2.5mm balanced output. Just too much trouble to worry about cables with both terminations. I guess people who have invested in AK and like the sound, will stick with 2.5mm, and users that are invested in DAPs with 4.4mm will stick with 4.4 going forward. If the industry fully adopts the 4.4mm, AK will probably be the last holdout....

    DAPs using 4.4mm: Cayin N8, Fiio M11 Pro, Hiby R5, Hiby R6 Pro, Cowon Plenue L, AR -M200, Questyle QP Master, Shanling M6, Ibasso DX160, Lotoo Paw Gold Touch,
    (removed Questyle QP2R)
    AMPs: Oriolus BA300S, WA11 Topaz,
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2019
    llamaluv, Sp12er3, Aslshark and 2 others like this.
  10. mwhals
    The Questyle QP2R has a 2.5 mm balanced. The Questyle QP Master will have the 4.4 mm.
  11. RobertP
    I'm impress how the new 3.02 firmware manage to squeeze out more instruments and vocals details out of it. I detect more real fine details that I have ever heard before. The 3.01 has the warmth which I like and the 3.02 is more naturalness. Sub bass is no longer too booming for me with better texture and layers, well for my 1A unit at least. Definitely more ambiance with larger soundstage and more holographic 3D like. If sony just left mid-high to high alone, this firmware would be a huge improvement over the 3.01. It's too bright and sibilant in some tracks.

    Maybe I'll try out 3.00 firmware and see if it's better combination for me. How was it on WM1Z? Let me know :wink:
    Maxx134 likes this.
  12. bana
    I've been using 4.4mm to RCA into my PrimaLuna amp since i bought my 1Z two years ago with no issues. I also have a cable for SE out when I run my integrated amp, both bought from Amazon.
    Where is the issue??
    Vitaly2017 likes this.
  13. Pablovi
    You quoted the wrong post. I never said there was an issue. I said in that post that 4.4mm shouldn’t be an issue. Someone else said it was, because the WM is not wired to ground on the 4.4mm output. You could short the amp. But that was not me.

    Does it sounds better from 4.4mm to RCA than just SE to RCA?
  14. bana
    Unfortunately, I have two separate amps I'm using, a Macintosh pre-amp and the PrimaLuna integrated. I'm going to say the latter sounds better to my ears.
    Pablovi likes this.
  15. Vitaly2017

    So I could use without problems the 1z 4.4 into ifi itubes2 rca without issues then?

    Thats worrying one say it will frie and other one says its all good lol.

    Dangy ...

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