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Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by leylandi, Jul 30, 2016.
  1. captblaze
    I used to compile my own Android distros (since the honeycomb days) and although it was enjoyable it made me realize that I am not an Android fan. which is probably why I enjoy my WM-1A so much and stay away from Android based players
    Whitigir and Redcarmoose like this.
  2. Whitigir
    Couldn’t agree more.
  3. phonomat
    So, you guys really think the sound changes with firmware updates? Is Sony aware of this? Is there an official statement about it? Theoretically speaking, wouldn't that be a complete disaster for an audio company? I mean, if I acquire an audio device, I would hope it better sounds the same no matter how much they keep tweaking the UI and whatnot? What if I want the USB DAC function but the sound of FW 2.0? Just askin'.
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  4. nc8000 Contributor
    It seems to be the norm in daps that there are sound changes to some extent with fw updates, it was certainly the case with several iBasso players and I’ve read it in threads from other makers as well. How noticeable the changes are varies from person to person, I certainly haven’t noticed anything much between the various fw for the 1Z and didn’t really on my iBasso players either. As far as I’m aware no manufacturer have acknowkedged these changes, iBasso continually stated “we have not knowingly changed anything”
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
    phonomat likes this.
  5. Whitigir
    It started out as we observed it, and then technically speaking, you just have to put your mind into it to find out.

    Everything in digital world is binary informations. There are coding and strings, everytime something changed, especially the base firmware, the sound will be alternated even if the playback app and it DSP coding are not edited or changed. Do people know why ? Do the programmers and engineers know why ? Nope...., not primarily.....but not everyone can observe the differences, and most of the time they are too subtle to realize. But is there changes ? Yes...

    Now, let me make an example images. You imagine yourself doing some math on a notebook, and you have to write out the process on the given lay-out. What happen if I changed the paper and the sketched lay-out ? And you don’t have to change your way of doing math, you can even copy the same lines....would the outcomes have been changed ? Yes

    Your sketched out paper is the Provided base firmware.

    Now, we can talk about DSP, and again, 0 and 1 is just Binary informations. I can have this 01100011000, and it means nothing. You need a program behind it to interprete into human comprehension, whether it is music or visual stuff. So, let’s just talk about “ Digital Filter”, in picture and video, you can totally filter out Green/Blue....specific color. So the same as Digital music....everytime you slightly change these stuff....the music performances got changed.

    Is it a disaster for the company ? No....what if a specific user want A result with B firmware ? Go code the firmware and DSP yourself if you are capable of it. Otherwise, you will have to choose. If you already observed all those above and understand them all, then you would have already realized so much that Sony Original OS was made for music, and dedicated toward music.....everything else suck....Linux....Windows....IOS....Android....they all sucks....especially Android.

    If you accepted all of the above....you have no options. Stick to what you enjoy the most, if it have to be Sony devices, so be it. Trust me, there are dedicated programmers who thought they could have done better....but it turned out to be trash.....Android started out thinking they can outperform Apple OS....well, they don’t.....they needs 5x the resources to do what Apple devices can do. If it isn’t for open market and friendly open pattens, Android would have gone Bankrupt...the same as music, do Android know why their OS is not as efficient as Apple OS ? Not yet...if they do, then they would have improved it much better...Right?
  6. Redcarmoose
    If you wanted the USB DAC function you would just need to try and maybe EQ the Walkman to sound like 2.0. Still it would only be an approximation in the end.

    It’s an approximation due to actual changes involving tone personality and soundstage personality change with firmware updates. The only reason many of us believe this is, even without it being suggested; we discovered the same parallel changes post firmware update. There is pretty much a group consensus (on sound changes) even though all of us have different hearing and use different headphones.

    With the above out of the way.

    The win win is choice.

    You simply end up with selections of tone and soundstage presentation character. If you roll back far enough you also choose what extra improvement options like the vinyl processor or BT receiver. So if you liked 2.0 then you would make a choice.

    It has evolved this way maybe because Sony wanted to improve their product and learned they could. A parallel would be getting a new car the day it was released then finding aftermarket performance engine modifications at a later time. Though these performances tweaks are created in house by Sony.....and take time.

    Should Sony have kept the Walkmans in development for over three years (more) before releasing them to the public? They released them.....folks liked the sound and it’s been improved.

    The real disaster is going on every couple months with other brands releasing DAPs........putting them out with edgy operating systems and forgetting them to work on new hardware. Or Apple who after a year or two uses firmware to render the product you purchased two or three years ago.......ready for the trash bin.

    The improvement with our devices is action showing Sony cares for their creation.......and cares about the owners.
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
  7. Kitechaser
    I had a chance to listen to the DMP-Z1, and it blows everything I have ever heard out of the water, the Sony TA-ZH1ES, all desktop dedicated amps I have tried, just such a massive upgrade.
    I don't think another DAP can touch it, I seriously felt like I was doing some hallucinogenics when I was listening to it, I could touch the sound. True Holographic presentation, with weight behind every note. Music playback that gave me the chills, just beautiful.
    At least that is what I heard with the CL2 combo, I am really looking forward to trying it out with my PW cable, that I didn't have at the time.

    @phonomat And as far as, Do the firmware updates change sound? Yes they do, and the easiest way to find out is to listen for yourself. To my ears the change was pretty big, I could hear the difference in seconds, and came to the same conclusions as @Redcarmoose without knowing what he thought previously.
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
    Redcarmoose likes this.
  8. Whitigir
    I agreed with many things you said (holographical and weighty notes, is also very detailed and while super silky smooth *the thing the DAVE was behind is this super silky smoothness) :wink:....the sound from DMP is quiet Poisonous....don’t even listen to it if you don’t have the money....otherwise you may want to rob someone for it LOL
    Last edited: May 28, 2019
    AeroSatan and Kitechaser like this.
  9. Kitechaser
    That is exactly what I thought haha :)
    I had to stop listening to it because it was going to permanently ruin everything else for me. Completely blurred the lines between a playback and actually being there. .
    Whitigir likes this.
  10. hamhamhamsta
    Time to Celebrate. Get a Sony DMP :)
  11. meomap
    Probably, I have to try it someday.
    Too bad, none in Bay Area.
  12. Kitechaser
    The SOURCE AV in Torrance has one on hand. So if you are ever in Los Angeles...
    Whitigir likes this.
  13. gerelmx1986
    I am waiting for the major.upgrade to wm series
  14. nc8000 Contributor
    You may have to wait a long time for that
  15. Whitigir
    Even so, you will not get anything similar to DMP ....I doubt it

    It is built with 5 batteries packs, 1 each for analog section and 1 for Digital....the same as 5x super-capacitors :D

    Even WM1-Z is Pale in technical built and engineering (Virtually, everything inside DMP is Multi Layered Capacitors and F resistors. It is challenging to even design such device)
    Last edited: May 28, 2019

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