Sony NOW taking pre-orders for Nano Rival. (Solid Specs / Prices)
Mar 4, 2007 at 7:38 PM Post #31 of 52
no, it doesn't. UMS is a set of protocols for inferfacing a computer and a device. UMS is how your device talks to your computer. itunes organizes the music and then sends it to the ipod via UMS protocols.
 
Mar 4, 2007 at 11:36 PM Post #32 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky191 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Don't confuse "drag and drop" with MSC/UMS and filetree support which is what most people mean by drag and drop. ...


I said MSC/UMS AND filetree support
wink.gif
Thats obviously for music not data. Which is not how Apple use it, if indeed it does use UMS. Regardless, drag and drop, UMS and filetree are common use terms for certain types of funtionality. If you want to be semantic and literal in how you use words then the topic will go no where. It would be like calling your Mac a PC where its not useful to do so.

What term is useful to differentiate a device like an iPod, Zen or WALKMAN which have UMS modes for data, but need an application to transfer music. From a Device like a X5 or similar that doesn't.
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 3:45 AM Post #34 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky191 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I said MSC/UMS AND filetree support
wink.gif
Thats obviously for music not data. Which is not how Apple use it, if indeed it does use UMS. Regardless, drag and drop, UMS and filetree are common use terms for certain types of funtionality. If you want to be semantic and literal in how you use words then the topic will go no where. It would be like calling your Mac a PC where its not useful to do so.

What term is useful to differentiate a device like an iPod, Zen or WALKMAN which have UMS modes for data, but need an application to transfer music. From a Device like a X5 or similar that doesn't.


its interesting that your previous post was meant to clarify word use, and now you are dismissing a discussion on semantics.

msc/ums does not mean filetree. you could have a player that supports filetree but uses MTP protocols. these are all separate features.

ums/msc or mtp
no software required or software required
filetree or tags

the ipod is UMS, requires software, and browses by tags
the x5 is UMS, doesn't need software, and browses by filetree
the zen is MTP, doesn't require software, and browses by tags

i'm actually not sure what protocol sony uses, but they require software and browse by tags
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 4:11 AM Post #35 of 52
I think its ugliness does more for its failure than SonicStage.

I mean, look at iPods. It comes with iTunes, but it's still successful.
And as for iPod's looks, it's better than this thing, but it's still not much better. But people find it fashionable for some reason.
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 9:23 AM Post #36 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
its interesting that your previous post was meant to clarify word use, and now you are dismissing a discussion on semantics.

msc/ums does not mean filetree. you could have a player that supports filetree but uses MTP protocols. these are all separate features.

ums/msc or mtp
no software required or software required
filetree or tags

the ipod is UMS, requires software, and browses by tags
the x5 is UMS, doesn't need software, and browses by filetree
the zen is MTP, doesn't require software, and browses by tags

i'm actually not sure what protocol sony uses, but they require software and browse by tags


I never said it did. I said...

"...MSC/UMS and filetree support which is what most people mean by drag and drop..."

Because theres always "someone" who'll jump in and say the iPod/SS is drag and drop. Just to muddy the water for some reason. Those terms are not helpful when talking about DAP's without context. But its obvious what people are talking about. I'll ask again, what term usefully differentiates these devices? its not drag and drop either.
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 5:52 PM Post #38 of 52
the ipod uses the UMS protocol. that is why you can use your ipod in os x, windows, or linux. anything put onto the ipod is sent via UMS. some people are confused by the fact that on windows, you need to enable disk use for the ipod to show up as a drive. this is because itunes installs a process that will hide the ipod if disk use is not enabled. if you stop this process, you can see the ipod just like you would see any other UMS compliant device. some people also insist that to be UMS, content put on the device by dragging it on (without extra software) should play on the device. this is, in fact, not the case. UMS is just the way the computer identifies the device, it has nothing to do with how a device uses the data. to have media that plays on the ipod, it needs a database. the only reason the ipod requires software is because it needs that database to be written by the software. when you add data by dragging it onto the drive, the data hasn't been added to the database.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mas...e_device_class
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 6:39 PM Post #39 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by xenochimera /img/forum/go_quote.gif
i dont see how 4 gig would be enough for video, plus it also costs a lot more then the nano.


There will be a iPod Video rival, dont worry about that... should be here before the end of the year..

people are never happy.. i don't see the fuss over the iPod, it really doesn't have much going for it.

Each to his own, theres always a niche market for most things, i think Sony has a niche market.
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 7:09 PM Post #40 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
the ipod uses the UMS protocol....when you add data by dragging it onto the drive, the data hasn't been added to the database.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_mas...e_device_class


1) That Wiki does not add any new information on this.

2) Common usage terms are often technically incorrect. That doesn't stop them from becoming common usage. Often common usage terms can be more useful the the correct technical terminology.

3) I'll ask again, what term usefully differentiates these devices?

All you are doing is making the same point over and over. A printer is UMS that doesn't make it a DAP. Great point but its not useful in differentiating a iPod/Sony/Creative from a iRiver/Cowon player. No matter how many times you say it.
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 8:33 PM Post #42 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky191 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
1) That Wiki does not add any new information on this.

2) Common usage terms are often technically incorrect. That doesn't stop them from becoming common usage. Often common usage terms can be more useful the the correct technical terminology.

3) I'll ask again, what term usefully differentiates these devices?

All you are doing is making the same point over and over. A printer is UMS that doesn't make it a DAP. Great point but its not useful in differentiating a iPod/Sony/Creative from a iRiver/Cowon player. No matter how many times you say it.


in this case, common usage terms obscure the qualities that each of the 3 categories i mentioned represent. differentiate devices by talking about the 3 different qualities. UMS or MTP, software required or not, and filetree browsing or tag browsing. you can have all the information in a fairly concise manner that does not confuse any of the distinct properties. there is not one term currently in common usage that will differentiate all the devices.
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 9:35 PM Post #43 of 52
Quote:

Originally Posted by zip22 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
in this case, common usage terms obscure the qualities that each of the 3 categories i mentioned represent. differentiate devices by talking about the 3 different qualities. UMS or MTP, software required or not, and filetree browsing or tag browsing. you can have all the information in a fairly concise manner that does not confuse any of the distinct properties. there is not one term currently in common usage that will differentiate all the devices.


"UMS or MTP, software required or not, and filetree browsing or tag browsing" is hardly concise.

Since they all work the same for data UMS & filetree no point using that to differentiate them. But as these are DAP's you'd expect to differentiate them on their audio functionality. So lets consider that. Creative/Sonicstage/iPod all only use MTP/UMS & tags. Whereas iRiver/Cowon and their ilk can use tags, they can uniquely use UMS & filetree. While theres lots of other differences, IMO UMS & filetree is a useful differentiation to group them.
 
Mar 5, 2007 at 9:43 PM Post #44 of 52
creative does not use UMS, they use MTP with their newer players. some iriver players use MTP. some cowon players can use both MTP and UMS and some can do both filetree and tag browsing.
 
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