[jynweythek]

Hi, I'm in the market for budget closed full-sized headphones and I'm thinking of buying the RX700. I bought the Sony MDR-V6 recently as my first good quality headphone. I was very impressed with the SQ but the V6 has some major problems for me, so I'm going to return it. It's way too bright and incredibly fatiguing (to the point of ear pain). Additionally, it is a bit inconsistent for me in terms of music enjoyment. Some music just sounds kind of boring with it, and actually sounds more enjoyable on my cheaper headphones (CX300, Koss Sparkplug, even the $5 Koss UR5 I used for a long time, even though it is pretty awful). I believe the frequency balance is a bit weird (opposite of warm, perhaps). The recessed midrange might also be part of the problem.

The RX700 sounds promising because it sounds like it would have a warm, non-fatiguing sound and would not be overly bright. Is this fairly accurate? How is the midrange? I'd like something I could listen to for 4-6 hours every day, ideally. Also, how is the isolation? I heard the RX700 is semi-closed. Overall, in terms of SQ, frequency balance, comfort, and isolation, how does the RX700 compare to the V6? Is it pretty good at all genres of music? (I listen mainly to IDM, Rock, Trip-Hop, and Classical, in order of frequency). Thanks.

(If someone has asked similar question(s) before let me know. I've tried searching and have read a lot of the posts but still would like these specific questions answered).

 

[Deep Funk]

Have you given the V6-es a good burn in? I understand the fatigue and yes some genres just don't sound their best. Do you play FLAC, WMA 320 kbps etcetera?

The V6-es let you hear your music according to their recording and data quality. The lossier the better, say FLAC. I just played Souls of Mischief, James Brown and System of a Down and all in WMA 320 kbps. I ripped everything from the CDs. I sometimes grab my old Pioneer Monitor 10s or Aurvana Lives. The Monitor 10s really put pressure on your ears.

When I couldn't find a second pair of V6-es I bought the Creative Aurvana Lives. Isolation isn't the best so home use suits them better. I use them outdoors regardless because they are comfortable and their sound is polite and sweet. They reveal more detail than the V6-es and make my WMA 128 kbps sound very good on my phone. Just give them a test listen. I recommend them.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

I have a 7506, the pro version of the V6, and I came to a similar conclusion: It needs a slight boost in the lower midrange and a slight attenuation in the upper midrange and lower treble in order for it to be more enjoyable for listening. As unEQ'd, it is a bit too bright and a little hollow.

 

[jynweythek]

They definitely ought to be burned in by now. I used them as my main headphones for about a month, and left them playing for several days. I have tried them with mp3s and oggs at different bitrates as well as lossless, but it doesn't make any difference for their brightness and fatiguingness. Obviously some music is a lot more fatiguing (stuff with emphasis in the higher frequencies, mainly). I was listening to Bjork recently and found that her voice hurt my ears even with the volume turned way down (so I couldn't hear the rest of the music very well). I actually don't know how to explain that, since the volume level at those frequencies shouldn't have been overly loud, but then I don't entirely understand what makes sound fatiguing like that. Strangely enough, a lot of the music that sounds the best on the V6 is also the most fatiguing (Venetian Snares, Aphex Twin, Tool, Bjork).

I've tried eqing the V6 using my rockboxed Sansa c250, and that definitely takes the edge off the fatiguingness but it's still really bright and sounds unnatural to me. Plus I don't want to have to eq everything I use it with (may not always be possible either). Overall I think it would be better to have a headphone with a basic sound that I liked better in the first place. Then whatever eq tweaks I want to do should result in an even better sound.

I think it is odd that some people find the V6 very fatiguing while others can listen to it for hours every day with no problem, but I can't really explain it. It's definitely an impressive headphone, so I kind of understand its fans, but I can't really stand it myself. Feels like it would damage my hearing in the higher frequencies or something.

 

[Deep Funk]

Aha, I like it for its bright and harsh sound. It hurts the ears and sometimes the head for a while so you have to take a break every now and then. My Pioneer Monitor 10s have a flatter yet still bright/harsh sound which sounds softer in volume. Sometimes just lowering the sound volume is enough for the V6-es. Still, I can wear them all day while listening to everything that comes to mind.

If you want 'nicer' headphones the Creative Aurvana Live is worth your consideration for it covers pretty much the same frequency range with more balance, detail and politeness which gives them sweet sound. I would hold on to the V6-es for sometimes they reveal something to you you didn't hear before. Good luck...

 

[jynweythek]

Thanks.

Recently I happened upon this Japanese headphone review site. It has a frequency response graph for the Sony 7506. Now Headroom has a graph as well, and it looks really flat:

The graph on the Japanese site does NOT. It shows just what the V6 sounds like to my ears. Note the huge dip from about 100-400hz. This is why it lacks warmth. I can hear that this part of the music (especially the deeper part of the dip) is almost absent on the V6, but I can hear it on cheap headphones (!). Also note the peak around 2-3khz. Human hearing is most sensitive around 3khz, which makes this very fatiguing (I think this is why Bjork's voice ends up so loud). From about 4.5-11khz is another major peak (or mountain range, more like). The higher frequencies really stand out from all the other frequencies, which is why the V6 is so bright and fatiguing. This graph is a really accurate depiction, IMO, of how the V6 sounds.

I think the Japanese site is showing raw, unadjusted frequency measurements, while the Headroom graphs have been messed with a lot (HRTF and whatnot). Or it could be that the Japanese site does a better job of messing with the data. I'm not sure if the Japanese site's graphs are more accurate in general, but in this specific case I would definitely say so.

Anyway, I've really given up on the V6, so that's not the issue anymore.

I've found answers to most of my questions about the RX700 now (by searching and browsing some more). Sounds like the isolation is good, the comfort is pretty good, the sound balance should be pretty good, and it should probably work pretty well with all genres (including electronic music). I'm probably just going to go ahead and buy it, but I would like to hear some people's opinions (who have tried the RX700). I'd like to be reassured that it won't be disappointing compared to the V6. I'm a bit paranoid after buying the V6 based on lots of positive reviews. (I shouldn't have dismissed the criticisms of them by "crazy audiophiles" (what I thought at the time) on places like headphonereviews.org. Most of them are pretty accurate).

Thanks for the Aurvana recommendation, they look like a good possibility to look at in the future. But right now I'd rather get something cheaper like the RX700, which is $34. (Honestly the V6 was well outside of my original <$40 price range. I got it based on reports of extreme longevity and tons of positive reviews). Maybe later on I'll be looking in a higher price range, probably for an open headphone and/or IEM.

edit: If there any other comparably good closed full-sized headphones in that price range, I'd be glad to hear about them. I haven't heard of any though, honestly.

 

[Deep Funk]

I got more mixed reviews on the Sony MDR V6. Still 50 euros for a classic isn't bad.

The Creative Aurvana Lives (CALs) are copies of the Denon 1001 according to some. I'm not sure about that. They sure work for me. Going vintage sometimes brings great reward and surprise.

 

[jynweythek]

Well, I was looking at Amazon reviews, and the vast majority are very positive there. (But I've learned my lesson now!) What I had in mind was something I could use for my main headphone and listen to music (for enjoyment) for hours each day. These were a very poor choice for that, for me. I would probably keep the V6 if it had cost $34 (or if I had lots of money) though.

 

[lejaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jynweythek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks. Recently I happened upon this Japanese headphone review site. It has a frequency response graph for the Sony 7506. Now Headroom has a graph as well, and it looks really flat: The graph on the Japanese site does NOT. It shows just what the V6 sounds like to my ears. Note the huge dip from about 100-400hz. This is why it lacks warmth. I can hear that this part of the music (especially the deeper part of the dip) is almost absent on the V6, but I can hear it on cheap headphones (!). Also note the peak around 2-3khz. Human hearing is most sensitive around 3khz, which makes this very fatiguing (I think this is why Bjork's voice ends up so loud). From about 4.5-11khz is another major peak (or mountain range, more like). The higher frequencies really stand out from all the other frequencies, which is why the V6 is so bright and fatiguing. This graph is a really accurate depiction, IMO, of how the V6 sounds.

I agree...that graph from the Japanese site is exactly how they sound to me also. I'm a singer and the peaks in the upper mids make my voice sound horrible. Also...distorted electric guitars are exaggerated quite a bit because of the peaks...and the dip in the upper bass makes them lacking in warmth. I can't believe a lot of people describe them as accurate/neutral studio headphones. I prefer the RP21 over the v6, but you won't get the same degree of detail...it's much more natural sounding in the mids though...but somewhat boosted in the bass. You can sometimes find the RP21 for a very good price if you make your best offer to a dealer on ebay.

 

[jynweythek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree...that graph from the Japanese site is exactly how they sound to me also.

Interesting. I wonder, are the Headroom graphs generally flawed or is there some reason their V6 graph is wrong? Perhaps they tested an earlier version of the V6? I have heard that they switched manufacturers from China to Japan, and in the new Chinese version, the V6's flaws are more extreme. Could be just a rumor though, I don't really know, but it would explain some things.

 

[lejaz]

I don't know...the headroom graph of the k240S is pretty much how they sound to me. I think they just screwed up somehow in the testing of the v6. A lot of folks tell me you can't rely on those graphs anyway. My set is pretty old, I think. I purchased it second hand a couple of years ago, so it's probably the older Japanese made one if the rumor is correct. I've heard my singing on so many different headphones and speakers and the v6 is one of the worse sounding of all. Even most cheap ear buds make my vocals sound more natural. Only the ath m30 was worse. I was a drummer for many years also, and the crack of the snare drum often seems overly sharp with the v6. You might want to audition the shure 440 if you can. I haven't heard it but it gets good reviews.

 

[Deep Funk]

You heard your singing on several headphones? Right, I hope the recording went well for I don't really understand how the V6-es are that bad for your ears. I mean, Curtis Mayfield sounded good on the V6-es. I ripped the music from the CDs with the standard/neutral equalizer.

According to my manual I've got a 1985 model. I'm not sure what that could mean though. I bought my V6-es second hand.

 

[jynweythek]

My manual says copyright 1985 and doesn't mention any later dates, but I bought the headphones new.

I am curious, are a lot of other "audiophile" headphones as bright or as fatiguing as the V6? Or is it more so than usual? I'd like to know what to avoid in the future. For instance, it sounds like I wouldn't like Grados from what I've read about them. I get the impression that the V6 is one of the most fatiguing, though.

edit: I was checking out the DBI Pro 700, which goes for $40 and is supposed to be way better than its price. But it sounds like it's too similar to the V6 (even though it sounds like it is superior). It sounds like a mixing/monitoring phone with very aggressive highs that doesn't sound good with poorly done recordings (similar to the V6). Review here.

 

[lejaz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep Funk /img/forum/go_quote.gif You heard your singing on several headphones? Right, I hope the recording went well for I don't really understand how the V6-es are that bad for your ears. I mean, Curtis Mayfield sounded good on the V6-es. I ripped the music from the CDs with the standard/neutral equalizer. According to my manual I've got a 1985 model. I'm not sure what that could mean though. I bought my V6-es second hand.

The thing is that some singers voices may actually be flattered by the v6. Their singing may respond well to a boost in the upper mids...while others will sound worse. Because a particular singer sounds good over the V6 in no way demonstrates that the v6 is flat/neutral. I like Sinatra more on almost any other headphone I've tried...so it's not just my singing I don't like with those hps. I compared the v6 to a lot of different headphones and speakers over the last couple of years and it has an overly harsh and bright sound compared to almost all of the others, including the k240DF which is widely considered to be very flat/neutral. Even my JBL ear buds sound more natural to me except in the bass, which is very lacking. Many of the other headphones I've heard are WAY warmer and smoother than the v6....the k240S and the RP21 for example. STill, many people love them. It's all a matter of personal taste... as the saying goes, YMMV.

 

[Deep Funk]

True, I prefer to hear every bit of detail in the music in (possibly) good balance with the music as one piece of work. If that means some aspects like vocals tend to sound less 'leading' I don't mind. You can tweak the V6-es and your equalizer, still I like my
V6-es the way they are.

I sometimes switch with my Pioneer Monitor 10s from 1978.