[candlejack]

I guess you are probably in the wrong hobby if you don’t believe in what you hear

There's a difference between my subjective impression and the objective reality.

This is what Flat-Earthers fail to understand/accept. This may seem off-topic, but there are a lot of parallels that can be drawn between audiophiles who reject measurements and people who believe the Earth is flat. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to a complete moron to be a Flat-Earther. I found it quite fascinating.

 

[gerelmx1986]

I can`t believe you noticed that lol
Oh and the MDRs are pretty awesome^^

Haha my eyes fixed on the aaudio gears, Norton thedetails of less importance

 

[candlejack]

If everything can be shown in graphs and specifications, the HiFi industry should simply be non-existent.

How do you mean?

No need to fight for anyone, we are not playing Lord of the Ring.

Apologies, I wanted to avoid sounding patronizing when replying to you, but I realize I failed.

 

[candlejack]

Haha my eyes fixed on the aaudio gears, Norton thedetails of less importance

I the shelf falls off the wall (or even tilts forward enough) it will become an important detail for the audio gear on top.

 

[lumdicks]

No need to apologize. I am okay.

 

[heimis]

I the shelf falls off the wall (or even tilts forward enough) it will become an important detail for the audio gear on top.

Point taken.. It will be sorted

 

[candlejack]

Also I’m finding it hard to understand that you don’t believe that different grades and types of components can make a difference

This bit wasn't in your original reply, so allow me to answer here:
I am certain all components make a difference, even 2 "identical" components. Unit variation is a universal fact. The question is: does it matter?

If you drove your car off a cliff at 100 km/h vs 200 km/h, would the outcome be different? Of course, but would it be different in any meaningful way?

I am baffled when people worry about the difference that a 2 cm cable makes in their DAP but don't mind that the difference between 2 pairs of identical headphones is probably 100x greater. At least that is measurable.

At the same time, it's undeniable that my way of thinking is quite unpopular here and I find very few who are genuinely willing to engage with me in this topic of debate.

 

[nc8000]

This bit wasn't in your original reply, so allow me to answer here:
I am certain all components make a difference, even 2 "identical" components. Unit variation is a universal fact. The question is: does it matter?

If you drove your car off a cliff at 100 km/h vs 200 km/h, would the outcome be different? Of course, but would it be different in any meaningful way?

I am baffled when people worry about the difference that a 2 cm cable makes in their DAP but don't mind that the difference between 2 pairs of identical headphones is probably 100x greater. At least that is measurable.

At the same time, it's undeniable that my way of thinking is quite unpopular here and I find very few who are genuinely willing to engage with me in this topic of debate.

I’m unable to engage as I lack any sufficient technical knowledge and at same time am more interrested in what my ears tell me. I will not be doing any hw modding as I’m perfectly happy with the stock 1Z and the IER with stock cable and am worried that any changes might not be to my liking apart from them being very expensive both to have done and potetially with customs hassle in and out of EU. I never heard any big difference between the various stock fw but do hear quiet noticable differences with the various mod fw

 

[Damz87]

This bit wasn't in your original reply, so allow me to answer here:
I am certain all components make a difference, even 2 "identical" components. Unit variation is a universal fact. The question is: does it matter?

If you drove your car off a cliff at 100 km/h vs 200 km/h, would the outcome be different? Of course, but would it be different in any meaningful way?

I am baffled when people worry about the difference that a 2 cm cable makes in their DAP but don't mind that the difference between 2 pairs of identical headphones is probably 100x greater. At least that is measurable.

At the same time, it's undeniable that my way of thinking is quite unpopular here and I find very few who are genuinely willing to engage with me in this topic of debate.

I’m curious to know - have you ever listened to your IER-Z1R’s from a WM1A or 1Z (or any other DAP) and directly compared it with your ZX300? If so, did they all sound the same to you?

Not trying to argue, just genuinely interested to hear your findings.

I don’t own a ZX300 but I do have a few different walkmans, and I can clearly hear differences between them.

 

[phonomat]

There's a difference between my subjective impression and the objective reality.

This is what Flat-Earthers fail to understand/accept. This may seem off-topic, but there are a lot of parallels that can be drawn between audiophiles who reject measurements and people who believe the Earth is flat. Contrary to popular belief, you don't have to a complete moron to be a Flat-Earther. I found it quite fascinating.

Another analogon I often find myself reminded of is the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its devoted disciples, the Pastafarians. I joke, but the thing is, we're indeed dealing with "believers" and "non-believers" here, and you will never be able to sort this out. It's an age-old debate, and one that will continue well beyond our lifetimes, never to get settled. And you're right, the burden of proof should lie with the believer, but a believer can't prove what he believes in, because then it wouldn't be a belief, would it? But good luck in persuading him that what he believes in it false. And who are we to say it is? Like you, I do hear differences between transducers, but hardly, if any, differences between DAPs, DACs or amps, not to speak of cables or firmwares. Others do. The thing is, we will never be able to decide either way. Are we deaf, or are they delusional? We'll never know! This used to drive me mad when I still gave a rat's ass, mostly because it's so infuriating to me to see people apparently swindled out of their hard-earned cash, but I've learned to let go. And hey, if it subjectively makes them happy, it is sort of a victimless crime, isn't it? Placebo is at least as mighty as the Flying Spaghetti Monster! And you're right that this forum is mostly populated by believers (or perhaps we should call them positivists), but there are other forums out there which are directed more at sceptics like ourselves. I try to keep my mind open as much as I can, collect as many data points as possible and form my own idea about what's what based on that. It's all any of us can do really ...

One thing I do find curious, however, is that every expensive aftermarket cable that is bought, every capacitor or internal wire that is swapped in for a predecessor that cost a fraction of it, unfailingly makes a "night and day" difference and always, always sounds better to whoever forked out for it. Food for thought ...

 

[GiullianSN]

Whatever one spend money on will br better than the other, that's the law of justification and placebo.

 

[candlejack]

I’m curious to know - have you ever listened to your IER-Z1R’s from a WM1A or 1Z (or any other DAP) and directly compared it with your ZX300? If so, did they all sound the same to you?

Not trying to argue, just genuinely interested to hear your findings.

I don’t own a ZX300 but I do have a few different walkmans, and I can clearly hear differences between them.

Yeah, no problem, that's a fair question.

I went through a phase where I really, really wanted to get a new DAP. I was not dissatisfied with the ZX300 (and to be frank, when I bought the ZX300 I was not dissatisfied with the Galaxy S8 I had been using with the Andromeda/S), but I thought there had to be something more, otherwise why would so many people spend >$1k on these things. So I took a few trips to my local hifi showroom, trying DAPs and DAC/Amps, seeing if I could find something that impressed me.

I'm not going to say that they all sounded exactly the same, but the differences that were there did not improve my listening experience: nothing immediately jumped out at me as being clearer or more detailed, spacious, etc. Definitely not like when I change headphones. So despite my itch to buy something, I just couldn't do it. To begin with, I couldn't decide if one sounded better than the other, so how could I even pick an upgrade?

The only time I noticed a clear difference that I could label an improvement is when I was demoing some open back headphones. I was listening to the Arya and quite liked it, but there was a lack of clarity to the sound. I was driving it with the iDSD Micro BL. I asked the store owner to let me try a different Amp and he suggested the Hugo2. As soon as I changed the source, the veil had lifted and music sounded like I was expecting it to (I have high expectations). But I've never experienced anything remotely similar with IEMs.

But to be clear, this has nothing to do with my personal experience. I am perfectly willing to accept that my hearing is not as sensitive as other people's and that is the reason why some DAPs/DACs/Amps/cables sound the same to me when most other people hear distinct differences. But in order for me to do this, I would need to see some hard facts, not the equally subjective and unreliable impressions of other people.

 

[candlejack]

Another analogon I often find myself reminded of is the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its devoted disciples, the Pastafarians. I joke, but the thing is, we're indeed dealing with "believers" and "non-believers" here, and you will never be able to sort this out. It's an age-old debate, and one that will continue well beyond our lifetimes, never to get settled. And you're right, the burden of proof should lie with the believer, but a believer can't prove what he believes in, because then it wouldn't be a belief, would it? But good luck in persuading him that what he believes in it false. And who are we to say it is? Like you, I do hear differences between transducers, but hardly, if any, differences between DAPs, DACs or amps, not to speak of cables or firmwares. Others do. The thing is, we will never be able to decide either way. Are we deaf, or are they delusional? We'll never know! This used to drive me mad when I still gave a rat's ass, mostly because it's so infuriating to me to see people apparently swindled out of their hard-earned cash, but I've learned to let go. And hey, if it subjectively makes them happy, it is sort of a victimless crime, isn't it? Placebo is at least as mighty as the Flying Spaghetti Monster! And you're right that this forum is mostly populated by believers (or perhaps we should call them positivists), but there are other forums out there which are directed more at sceptics like ourselves. I try to keep my mind open as much as I can, collect as many data points as possible and form my own idea about what's what based on that. It's all any of us can do really ...

One thing I do find curious, however, is that every expensive aftermarket cable that is bought, every capacitor or internal wire that is swapped in for a predecessor that cost a fraction of it, unfailingly makes a "night and day" difference and always, always sounds better to whoever forked out for it. Food for thought ...

Thank you for writing this post. All of a sudden, this forum is not such a lonely place for me anymore. There are others who think and feel like I do!

But there is one thing that I would argue against, and that is the first 2 bold statements. Because that's just the thing: we should be able to know. This exact week, on the front page we had an article about ear simulators. People act like audio is some kind of mystical thing that scientific tools cannot capture. If you can record two singers and show that they sound different just by analysing the recording, then you sure as hell can record two source components that are supposed to sound clearly different and show that they indeed sound different. It shouldn't be so difficult and I imagine more would do it if there was anything there to show.

Anyway, I think I'm following in your footsteps, slowly getting to that place where I don't care anymore. The thing is, though, when I stop caring, there is no reason for me to log on anymore.

 

[Ojisan]

My solution to Whitigir's filter mod, inspired by Comply waxguard. Filter-less on Z1R, filtered at tip. Indeed the clarity is outstanding with this mod.

 

[Redcarmoose]

@Redcarmoose If there is one thing that I agree with this forum. But there are some people you should just avoid

It is the “policy” that you do not , should not and can not talk your mouth out of your ass like you know everything while you have not even lifted a finger or give a device a listen.

So I respectfully ask of you or anyone else to kindly disregard those baseless opinions, and stop responding

If it was me, I would always heed for the people who has real experiences rather than “oh, I only say it, because it is what I think but I have not actually done it”. On the internet or in real life

This is my favorite Quote “Opinion is like an Ass, and everyone has one”. It depends if you sit on your ass all day long, or do you take it to work and contribute toward the society

The images of a conversation Such as These are what I would be avoiding nowadays

A: “I don’t believe it, and you should not believe it”
B: “have you heard it ?”
A: No

Then the conversation should have been stopped right here

The same goes for modifications

A: I don’t believe modifications can improve the sound
B: Have you done it ?
A: No

Then the same also for for

A: I don’t believe that you are better than a manufacturer engineer. So I don’t believe you can improve the devices
B: Do you know what a Resistor is ? A capacitors ?
A: Yes I googled it
B: There are engineered “parameters”, do you understand all the values and meaning of it and how it behave within a circuit ?
A: I dont actually know how to solder a cables

“what I guess” key word “guess”