[duaned]

Has anyone compared the Z1R to the solaris?

 

[Rockwell75]

Has anyone compared the Z1R to the solaris?

@Malevolent recently said the following:

"Having compared the Z1R with the Solaris, I can agree with many who have demoed the top-end Sony - It is very special, indeed. A very good hybrid, with some excellent bass to boot. Among the genres I tested, it sounds best with dance music.

Funny thing is, the Solaris is just as good, in terms of technical performance. It sounds a little leaner in the bass department, but it compensates with a slightly more forward and detailed midrange. Anyone who's considering either 1 of the 2 would be happy at being presented with such a conundrum. It really boils down to signature preference, IMO"

That's pretty consistent with my own experience with Solaris and what I've read about the Z1R, namely that the Sony has better bass and the Solaris is more balanced with more forward mids.

 

[rutter]

A DAP is just a mobile phone with maybe some extra audio chips or discrete audio parts. It still uses the same mobile SoCs as a mobile phone, many are even Android based.

The dongle contains a DAC and amp. Some more expensive DAC and amps might discrete parts but that doesn’t automatically mean it performs well.

The main reason the Campfire Andromeda was once married to the Sony ZX2 and ZX300 was because their 3 ohm output impedance produced the best frequency response from the Andromeda. It wasn’t because they had anything special to them.

Where are you getting this nonsense from? A dap is just a mobile phone maybe with some extra audio parts? The dongle actually contains a dac and an amp... and that's a good thing? The only special quality of daps is output impedance?

Wow!

Majority of 64Audio are well above 100db sensitivity and are below 10 ohms impedance.

Anole VX is 110db sensitivity and 15 ohms.

I can go on and on.

The IER-Z1R is 103 db sensitivity and 40 ohms. The Focal Stellia is 106 db and 35 ohms.

https://www.focal.com/headphones/pdf/stellia_specification-sheet.pdf

"Excellent performance when connected to a portable audiophile player", not when touching your dongle.

Have you thought for a second that different DAPs might just have different sound signatures and react differently to different IEMs? It’s not a one size fit all solution.

Have you thought about that the little dac and amp hanging off the sides of your dongle don't actually get the job done well?

Campfire IEMs are extremely responsive to output impedance. Audiophile DAPs vary in output impedance, a lot of Sony DAPs are around 3 ohms. The dongle has an output impedance of ~0 ohms, some people with the Solaris would prefer a DAP with higher impedance as it would boost the presence region.

iPhone dongle works fine, end of story.

Obviously there's a lot more to the story I'd prefer to hear from someone who can educate a number of us. I believe the lecture would be called dongle abstinence, but I'll remain slightly open to depravity.

@Malevolent recently said the following:

"Having compared the Z1R with the Solaris, I can agree with many who have demoed the top-end Sony - It is very special, indeed. A very good hybrid, with some excellent bass to boot. Among the genres I tested, it sounds best with dance music.

Funny thing is, the Solaris is just as good, in terms of technical performance. It sounds a little leaner in the bass department, but it compensates with a slightly more forward and detailed midrange. Anyone who's considering either 1 of the 2 would be happy at being presented with such a conundrum. It really boils down to signature preference, IMO"

That's pretty consistent with my own experience with Solaris and what I've read about the Z1R, namely that the Sony has better bass and the Solaris is more balanced with more forward mids.

I've been at this for like two months. You need to have experience with both and not cherry-pick impressions. The Solaris does not have the imaging and depth of the IER-Z1R. Its bass is more than just a little leaner, it's worse by a serious margin. Mids and treble is where the Solaris may be preferred. Only in tone or tuning it could be considered preferable, which is not technical performance though in part it can enhance it the same way the IER-Z1R's more mature soundstage can bolster other aspects. I don't think it's any better in detail retrieval/resolution. The IER-Z1R just needs a fitting source whereas a ZX300 suffices for the Solaris.

PS

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/no-stereo-jack-no-problem-iphone-7-sounds-great/

O wow. So the newer iPhones don't actually have a dac or an amp, they are attached to the dongle... can someone post a dong pic? I want to see one. I love this argument. A dap is just a mobile phone maybe with some extra audio parts...

iPhone dongle works fine, end of story. If you want a different tone, go get a DAP.

I love the shamelessness! Different DAPs might just have different sound signatures and react differently to different IEMs... i.e. different daps might just give a different tone in comparison to the dongle, but they're all proficient in sound quality.

 

[hiflofi]

One very underrated aspect of the IER-Z1R's release is the absence of "professional" reviews (and the free sample units that come with that) which I find very conducive to a productive discussion about both its positives and negatives. It leaves judgement to the masses, either from people who have demoed or bought it, thus enabling a very organic proliferation of diverse views, all of which are highly acceptable.

 

[Hanesu]

Has anyone compared the Z1R to the solaris?

From my listening experience the Solaris is more mid centric while the Z1R is (slightly) more V-shaped. The Solaris sounds a bit sharper while the Sony has a softer approach. Micro detail is on a similar (very high) level though. Bass is stronger on the Sony. Both IEMs are great performer - it`s more a question of taste.

 

[rutter]

https://headfonics.com/2018/08/sony-expand-their-one-signature-sound-series/

Brief Impressions
The Z1R is not massively efficient, certainly needs more power than IEMs like the Andromeda and SE846. I presume that will be largely down to the big 12mm dynamic driver. On my own NW-WM1Z, I was hitting about 80 in low gain, possibly even higher. I suspect it can scale a bit more with even more output power from a small portable amp.

What I did hear was smooth, clear and very natural sounding. A small amount of mid-bass emphasis but otherwise quite controlled low-end, good vocal presence and a smooth but not overly forward top-end. There is nothing brash or bright about this signature, it sounded very nicely balanced with plenty of detail.

This professional took the dough out of the cookie cutter, although even he knew power might be relevant.

I know that Redcarmoose brought up a review or two of what are supposed to be more prominent members of this forum(?) who gave their first impressions, but they struck me as the typical formal reviews that just found ways to heap praise. It is kind of strange how these iems have yet to be reviewed.

 

[rutter]

@jeffreyw311 The Campfire Solaris has 115 db sensitivity and 10 ohms impedance! It's one of the easiest to drive iems. Campfire Audio have previously recommended Sony daps despite their relatively small power output and the fact that a phone and a dongle could probably blow the drivers of the Solaris in short order. Here's I believe their founder remarking on trying an upcoming dap, which by the way may qualify as one of these nuclear power sources some of you are losing your minds over.

Hey All,

When we were at the Munich High End show a few weeks ago I got to demo the AK Kann Cube. Using my Solaris it was the best I have heard, It really took the Solaris to the next level and I have been using every day. The amp in the Cube is a beast and it really made the Solaris sing. Also I found the UI to be unmatched. It a big DAP but its all business and to me I want the best sound possible in a device I can bring with me, this fit the bill. I immediately ordered 3 for my shop and begged my friends at AK to let me borrow the demo unit until my order showed up. In addition I tried with with Tidal and, dang it sounded amazing as well.

Heads up the AK Kann Cube is an amazing match with the Solaris. I do not sell AK anymore so I have no skin in the DAP market but I do want to promote players that we think are going to work best with our IEMs and this one is highly recommended.





Kann Cube + Solaris = smile on face.

Ken

You can go ask him why he appears to think that daps provide significantly better sound quality than iPhones with dongles.

As long as you keep rejecting measurements (and I am thinking specifically about you, Kite), it will always be a matter of opinion.

I for one don't hear much difference between DAPs. With the Andromeda, there was noticeable difference between sources, but that was due to the OI factor, not an objective quality difference. My Samsung Galaxy S8 was already excellent. Maybe I'm not sensitive enough, or maybe the difference between modern DAPs (a phone is also a Digital Audio Player) is not in the audible range of the common man. I would like to know and that's why I encourage measurements.

Edit: I've met enough intelligent people who are convinced god talks to them, that I'm not surprised that audiophiles hear huge differences between sources.

...So you people are what they call "objectivists"? Ignoramuses works too. I like the forward attitude.

Do you live somewhere where you can't try daps with iems, especially with the IER-Z1R? I have ended up trying a couple, in addition to having tried a couple of amplifiers through my computer with the IER-Z1R, and I can confidently tell you that tone or tuning are but one aspect. Daps can affect soundstage, imaging, separation, clarity, detail, fullness, texture, vibrancy, etc. they can in essence take sound to further levels. Who's to say the audible range of the common man is the issue here?

 

[hiflofi]

When are we going to strictly enforce the publication of official and compulsory quarterly aural exam results in our Head-Fi signatures so I can filter all the proles and their unfortunate ears?

 

[fiascogarcia]

One very underrated aspect of the IER-Z1R's release is the absence of "professional" reviews (and the free sample units that come with that) which I find very conducive to a productive discussion about both its positives and negatives. It leaves judgement to the masses, either from people who have demoed or bought it, thus enabling a very organic proliferation of diverse views, all of which are highly acceptable.

https://headfonics.com/2018/08/sony-expand-their-one-signature-sound-series/



This professional took the dough out of the cookie cutter, although even he knew power might be relevant.

I know that Redcarmoose brought up a review or two of what are supposed to be more prominent members of this forum(?) who gave their first impressions, but they struck me as the typical formal reviews that just found ways to heap praise. It is kind of strange how these iems have yet to be reviewed.

I think hiflofi hit the nail on the head. The prominent reviewers on Head-Fi (some of whom contribute to other sites) can't really go out and purchase every iem or headphone that they review. So the fact of life is that they rely on either free products or long term loaners for the most part. I have a sense that you don't really trust those reviews for that very reason, which I can understand. It appears that Sony is not apt to give or loan many of the Z1R's to reviewers, so you may not get many "professional" reviews anyway. I like to read those reviews, but as hiflofi mentioned, I also take stock in the comments of members here, fully understanding that their equipment stream and music preference may be different from mine. Hopefully with that information, I can get some idea if a piece of equipment might suit my needs. Personally, I'm really trying, trying, to stop getting a new toy, and then trying to immediately tweek my equipment to see if I can make it better. That's a rabbit hole I've fallen into far too many times. Cables, DAP's, amps all make a difference, but searching for perfection can make you lose sight of the purpose, which for me is enjoying my music. But that's just me.

 

[rutter]

This is a notable iem. I was starting to entertain the idea that these reviewers I'm not a big fan of don't have a lot of urgency to review even standout products that don't align with their interests. That is indeed not a good relationship to have between manufacturers and what are supposed to be informative impartial reviewers. These prominent reviewers can't even ask someone else to loan them a pair for review? There might be 5000 of these in the wild by now. I was over 3200. This is supposed to be a passion, to some extent at least. The IER-Z1R is a good iem.

The FW10K might as well not exist in the West. Why don't we have any English-speaking Asian reviewers?

And without a doubt IEMs are much more popular in Asia than in the west. One manufacturer I was talking to in the past does iems and portable headphones. They said on a rough estimate, every 10 over ears they may sell 1 IEM with USA and Europe. And in Japan/SEA every 20 IEMs, they may sell 1 over ear. Smaller spaces, mass public transit, and also high humidity. If it is summer, 100% humidity and super hot outside, would I like to use some IEMs or an over ear headphone?

Would make a lot of sense. Meanwhile the Solaris has been reviewed by everyone and their mama. Crinacle is one such reviewer, by the way. Could use some more. Plus he doesn't write for a "formal" website, not that those sites are great. Just pointing out.

 

[TSAVAlan]

I spoke with one of my Sony reps at our event in March. The tricky part for him was, in March he only had one demo unit available and he wasn't comfortable lending out his only unit for review. Good news now in May, is Sony has started receiving some IER-Z1R in USA. We have done tours for gear in the past and boy oh boy was that a little tricky to keep up with. Wonder how it must be for the guys at Sony since they are typically handling a few branches of Sony.

We in Sony's eyes are still primarily classified under their CI (Custom Installation) even though we also sell the Signature headphones and pro gear for our clients. So we deal with a few different branches with Sony on a whole variety of stuff.

 

[Rockwell75]

You need to have experience with both and not cherry-pick impressions.

I've owned the Solaris for two months and will eagerly take any chance I can get to demo the Z1R-- which is not an easy thing to do in my corner of the world. That said I've talked to about half a dozen people privately who have heard both and I picked that impression because it lines up well with what I've heard overall. Your comments about the imaging and bass of the Solaris have always struck me as an outlier and I have suspected from the outset that you were never able to obtain a proper fit and seal with them. In any case I eagerly await the day I can hear the Z1R for myself so I can weigh in conclusively and not have to rely in the impressions of others, a dubious prospect no matter how well experienced they are.

 

[XERO1]

From my listening experience the Solaris is more mid centric while the Z1R is (slightly) more V-shaped. The Solaris sounds a bit sharper while the Sony has a softer approach. Micro detail is on a similar (very high) level though. Bass is stronger on the Sony. Both IEMs are great performer - it`s more a question of taste.

Don’t forget about the fit.
Sadly, the Solaris (and Andromeda) uses a wide bore nozzle that becomes quite uncomfortable to me after just a few minutes and also causes problems with maintaining a good seal.
The Z1R fits my ears like a glove.

 

[rutter]

That said I've talked to about half a dozen people privately who have heard both and I picked that impression because it lines up well with what I've heard overall. Your comments about the imaging and bass of the Solaris have always struck me as an outlier and I have suspected from the outset that you were never able to obtain a proper fit and seal with them.

Keep in mind even though I like the IER-Z1R you'll still find some of my comments to be outliers because I encounter an overwhelming tendency of people to exaggerate. Take soundstage width for instance. I disagree on shockingly good clarity too. When you get the chance to hear the IER-Z1R come back to me with an impression of whether the bass difference is small or serious. I'd be also curious to hear if you'd be left with the impression that the two have similar depth, which is the quality of the Z1R that enables better imaging. Make sure that when you hear the IER-Z1R it is driven with power.

Also, I question what exactly you've read because I've been reading too.

PS

The QDC Anole VX whatever is another outstanding iem without English reviews. Who hasn't reviewed the Solaris? It gets undue attention.

 

[cn11]

I'm gonna get a chance soon to compare the Anole VX to the IER-Z1R... I bought a 2nd hand one on the FS section here. I may have to turn loose of the one I like less unfortunately... Damn budget (or lack thereof).