[PC Corp]

I went to some Chinese headfi type websites. Suprisingly, I found a head amp called HP-100 which looks exactly the same (inside, dimensions and weight) as the SonicAdventure amp. (And I 99.99% believe they are the same amp.)


Here are some pics.

Anyone who knows Chinese can go to this website to check it out.
here

I don't know the history of the two companies and who's coping who or whatever. The same company??? The only thing I know is that a DIYer called 2000ok first anounced the amp in March, 2002 on his website www.2000ok.net and he/she has beening selling the amp since for about $120 USD in China. And the person "2000ok" seems to be well known and respected by many headfiers according to many Chinese headfi type websites I've visited. According to a headfier, the HP-100 is an improved version of an earlier 2000ok amp.


I must say sorry to ServinginEcuador. My bad. You could have saved mosre than have the money you paid.

Be honest, I found there are so many good, inexpensive (tube) head amps in China.

when I saw that amp and the positive reviews, I was so excited.

Then... I saw Kelly's review...then..ServinginEcuador's...
Hopefully ServinginEcuador is the last one to pay that much for seemingly the same amp.

Again, anyone who wants to order the SonicAdventure "Reality" amp should think twice. That's my 2 cents.

 

[PC Corp]

oh, here's the SonicAdventure amp's pic

 

[Nick Dangerous]

How about that? They are the same!

 

[katsudon1]

In response to PC Corp's comment on the relationship between REALITY and HP100, we would like to clarify that HP100 was the prototype of REALITY and 2000ok was one of the founders of SonicAdventure. This has been asked a few times by others via email inquiries, hence, we have also stated this relationship [size=medium]EXPLICITY[/size] at our FAQs since September. Please Click here to see our FAQs. 2000ok sold some units since March
[size=medium]AT COST[/size] to headphone enthusiasts in China to gather customer responses on the product. That is how Gary, Tinha and I meet 2000ok and we thought of going commercial to bring this exceptional well valued product to the market and make it available to foreign markets. The production is now being manufactured in [size=medium]HONG KONG[/size] instead of [size=medium]CHINA[/size] because we are able to provide higher craftsmanship, implement better quality control and secure higher quality Western and Japanese parts here. Since incorporation, the SonicAdventure Team have been carried out [size=medium]excessive R&D[/size], much of time and effort have been spent in order to tweak and improve on the 2000ok's already excellent original design and tackle a few technical problems that we initially had before a market launch. Our philosophy was and still is to bring what we believe the best value and high performance ratio products to the market. We guess you probably may not able to imagine how many prototypes the Team have laying around in our office and homes.

So PC Corp, 2000ok apologizes for not forming a partnership with you and let you be an [size=medium]HONESET[/size] businessman. We, at SonicAdventure would like you to excuse us for being in the [size=medium]REAL WORLD![/size] Now that we have incorporated a company, with operating expenses and taxation to pay, we have to make a reasonable profit margin to survive in the market place. Considering our investments in terms of money, time and effort, we do not feel that what we are offering is excessively expensive. At least we are not just intended to be a reseller and earn a 50% profit margin by doing no R&D and providing no customer services! Please learn from business history, reseller model does not work anymore in nowadays' competitive market, DIRET SELL is the only way to benefit consumers. We would like to stress that we have been spending much of the revenue from revenue from the sales of REALITY in developing new products.

 

[freethetree]

With electronic goods manufactured in China it seems to be fairly common for 3rd party companies to sell rebranded OEM stuff. Often times the quality suffers but the products usually cost much less.

I have no idea whats up in this particular instance though, the HP-100 might be the exact same as or even better than the Reality.

Whered the amp go? The pictures dont show up, the link doesnt work and I went to the website and did a product search but couldnt find it.

 

[freethetree]

Oops, never mind, I guess it was explained.

Thats what I get for browsing 20+ windows at once.

 

[PC Corp]

I've had a bad day already.

Quote:

So PC Corp, 2000ok apologizes for not forming a partnership with you and let you be an HONESET businessman. We, at SonicAdventure would like you to excuse us for being in the REAL WORLD! Now that we have incorporated a company, with operating expenses and taxation to pay, we have to make a reasonable profit margin to survive in the market place. Considering our investments in terms of money, time and effort, we do not feel that what we are offering is excessively expensive. At least we are not just intended to be a reseller and earn a 50% profit margin by doing no R&D and providing no customer services! Please learn from business history, reseller model does not work anymore in nowadays' competitive market, DIRET SELL is the only way to benefit consumers. We would like to stress that we have been spending much of the revenue from revenue from the sales of REALITY in developing new products.

OK, they've deleted the pics from their website now. I'm real tired and don't want to defence myself anymore.

All I want to tell the potiential "SonicAdventure" buyers is that you could get the same amp from a Chinese website for as little as $120+ shipping+ whatever taxes. Many people in China have bought the HP-100 for about $120.

Where's the business ethics?

It's none of my business to tell people how to spend their hard earned money anyway.

 

[Plz.csa]

 

[Panshell]

Anyway,SonicAdventure amp(or perhap "hp100" or whatever) is still a good choice at this price range.
I would like to say:
if you have brought the SonicAdventure,never regret your decision.From the previous reviews ,it does worth your spent money.

 

[kelly]

I can't speak to what the amplifier sells for in China. The HP100 as far as I know was the prototype to the current SonicAdventure Reality which is the true commercial product. If this is incorrect and the HP100 sells commercially in China, I appologize for the error and for not noting this in my review.

It is, unfortunately, not uncommon to pay much higher in the US for a product sold for much less in asia. Stax is considered by most a very legitimate company despite the fact that their US distributors set a retail price of 2-3 times the Japanese domestic price for their products.

I do think your money goes a long ways with the US price of the Reality amp even if there are avenues to get it cheaper. If you're considering one but have reservations, I would sign up to audition one and decide for yourself.

I appreciate your posting this regardless of how it turns out, PC Corp. I don't believe too much information can be a bad thing and if the amp is available for less in China potential buyers should be made aware of the fact whether they consider it worth buying from SonicAdventure or not.

 

[PC Corp]

Yes Kelly, the Hp-100 is still selling for $120 in China or from the Chinese website. If my observasion and my Chinese serve me correct, they didn't mention that the HP-100 is a prototpye.

An additional information I want to tell you guys is that they also sell the HP-100 kit for a grand total of $110. Yes, the difference between a finished product and a kit is just $10 US dollars. But for $10, you can hire a person to sit on the assembly line for 3 days in China.

Worse, I believe the HP-100 is more polish, or is a higher quality product. The surface of the power supply shines on the HP-100. The two headphone jacks are the same (at least in look) to the Mccormack Micro Integrated drive - headphone/pre-amp I found here and on other several high quality DIY/commercial head apms selling in China. They said the headphone jack costs $2 each, which is a lot of momey for the price for the total cost of the HP-100. On the several Chinese forums I've visited, no one has mentioned the existence of the "Reality."

About the front face, HP-100 looks like a HeadRoom Max, which leads me to think why they change the front face on the Reality when they try to sell it overseas.

They make the HP-100 in the city across the broder of HongKong, which has amount the lowest and simpliest tax rates in the world. Yes, wages are more expensive in HongKong. Then why set up an additional website in HongKong and pay a skilled worker for $10 for less than 30 minute service while you can hire someone to work for you for the same amount of money for 3 days???

Yes, products have different prices in different countries. But would you be pissed if Stax sets up two websites, one in Japanese and another one in English, then eliminate all the dealers to claim the NEW World ORDER is to sell direct, then if you order in English you have to pay more than three times the money for an inferior product?



Quote:

So PC Corp, 2000ok apologizes for not forming a partnership with you and let you be an HONESET businessman. We, at SonicAdventure would like you to excuse us for being in the REAL WORLD! Now that we have incorporated a company, with operating expenses and taxation to pay, we have to make a reasonable profit margin to survive in the market place. Considering our investments in terms of money, time and effort, we do not feel that what we are offering is excessively expensive. At least we are not just intended to be a reseller and earn a 50% profit margin by doing no R&D and providing no customer services! Please learn from business history, reseller model does not work anymore in nowadays' competitive market, DIRET SELL is the only way to benefit consumers. We would like to stress that we have been spending much of the revenue from revenue from the sales of REALITY in developing new products.

I'm not saying the Reality doesn't worth the money. But from the pictures, which they've deleted, I saw, the HP-100 is a better product, at least in finish IMHO, for much less money. yeah, the HP-100 is a prototype, or whatsoever.

I don't want to start a war with anybody, but from the language of katsudon1, I felt being attacked personlly. And how can I trust the people behind the two companies when they deleted all the evidence of the HP-100 immidiately after my post and didn't let consumers to decide which one is a better product.

katsudon1, if you can show me some convincing facts, I will apologize openly here.

 

[katsudon1]

Quote:

Originally posted by PC Corp I don't want to start a war with anybody, but from the language of katsudon1, I felt being attacked personlly.

We apologise for using language that make you felt personally attacked.

People with wise eyes and analytical mind shall not have trouble picking up the contradictions that you have made in your argument. Please do not comment on product quality when you have never seen the actual product of REALITY, not to mention the earlier HP-100 prototypes.

We have to officially announce again production is done in Hong Kong to ensure quality control. When you can build Cadillac in Mexico for 1/10 of the cost of building it in US, why would GM being so dump and still manufacture Cadillac in the US? QUALITY CONTROL! Just like a handcrafted Italian violin, there is so much attention to details involved for producing such a dedicated product. We really wish that the cost of REALITY could be as low as you claimed since we will then able to sell it for sub USD200 and try to capture as much market share as possible.

As our effort to try to bring full consumer satisfaction, we have contacted our exisiting customers to offer a full refund after you started this thread. However, no refunds were wanted but one customer will be receving a brand new REALITY with all the updated tweaks as an replacement of the unit he bought earlier for no charge.

The whole purpose of circulating demo units is to let consumers to decide whether our offering is there cup of tea. We are confident in our product quality and truly believe that REALITY speaks for itself in terms of product quality and value for money.

Here is our offer. Should you be able to buy a brand new REALITY or HP-100 in China, please email the sales receipt to us together with 2 pics of the unit. We will immediately PayPal you USD1,000 without saying a word.

 

[PC Corp]

Quote:

People with wise eyes and analytical mind shall not have trouble picking up the contradictions that you have made in your argument. Please do not comment on product quality when you have never seen the actual product of REALITY, not to mention the earlier HP-100 prototypes.

A picture worths a thousand words. I've seen the pictures of the two amps and IMHO I "think" the HP100 is the better one. Why don't you put the HP-100 pictures on again and let other people to judge the quality of the two amps?

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There are two quotes from a Chinese headfi


forum .

The first quote means " Brother Ok's HP100A when will it be finished, waiting for so long."

Then there's a guy reply means " Something is changing, I'm waiting for more information."

The first quote posted at 2002-10-22 15:46:00, which means on October 22, 2002 in China, someone is still waiting for his HP-100.

Yeah, the craftsmanship may be better in HongKong, but according to Tuberoller

Quote:

That Sonic Adventure amp was'nt bad but wasn't the greatest either.I can certainly see it giving the MGHead a run for the money.It is better than the MG in every single way.It too had some QC issues(a poor connection at the headphone jack) but the sound was impressive for the projected price.It also seemed to sound good with every phone I tried it with.This amp is a contender.

So you see, don't blame me for believing that the HP-100 has better headphone jacks.

katsudon1, if you don't mind to offer me $1000 for each "used" HP-100, then I think an Audio Note DAC and the Stax Omega II are on my way.

At the end, I would say the Sonic Adventure amp is a very competitive amp for its price and performance. But if katsudon1 and partners can reconsider their business plan to offer the HP-100 amp for $120 + shipping and handling costs. This would be a monster.

Just my 2 cents.

And my contribution to this topic ends HERE.

 

[Joe Lau]

No ! I dpn't think HP-100 Jack cost US$100. I had order a upgrade version with gold plate. It still much lower than US$2.

US retail price higher than China price. Yes ! It is no wonder ! Some retailer in China just have profite 5% to 20% mark up ! thier Running cost on retail is much lower than USA.
They no need to pay advertising ! Import Tax ! After sell service cost.......

Manufacturing in Hong Kong ? It is hard to manufacturing products in Hong Kong. The salary of General Worker in Hong Kong is around US$500 to US$700/Pcs but China worker only US$50 to US$70/Month. So the Best way is setup a Purchasing & Shipping office in Hong Kong. Setup a factory in China but managing by yourself. Metal work supplier in China is much Cheaper than Hong Kong and easy to delivery to China factory.
Don't How much it sell in China but think about is it good value for money ? Sound quality & build quality good or not ?

 

[Panshell]

Hi,PC Corp.

Thank you for the information about all these things,and I REALLY appreciate your enthusiastic investigation in Sonic Adventure.

NOW I wondering how easy it is to own a STAX.

Would you mind checking the STAX and tell me where and how I can get it at it's lowest price? or else I guess you also have the way to convince their manufacturer to reconsider their business plan to offer STAX at their "Monster" price.

From your previous posts ,I was convinced that you are the specialist...So do help!