Sometimes it's not the system...

[Yikes]

Why is it that when someone (Me) expresses the opinion that Sennheiser HD-650/600’s are a little less than stellar performers HD lovers immediately blame our amplification or that they must not have been properly broken in? The fact is that there are many people who agree with the sentiment that the 650’s are kind of dull. If someone states that they like the 650’s I don’t immediately come out saying that it’s because the rest of their system must be overly bright and analytical.

Why do I offer my opinion of the 600/650’s? I feel that it is important to share these opinions. If newbies hear varying opinions they are more likely to wait for an actual audition before making their purchases.

The fact is that some people like a more detailed presentation. This is why my headphone inventory consists of AKG K1000 & K501 and Grado SR-325i’s and Sony SA-5000’s (the Jury is still out on the 5000’s) and Ety ER-4S’s. While some people like a warmer lusher (read dull and boring IMHO) presentation, for these people the HD 600/650’s are an ideal choice. Detailed or Warm, both are valid choices.

 

[[AK]Zip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes Why is it that when someone (Me) expresses the opinion that Sennheiser HD-650/600’s are a little less than stellar performers HD lovers immediately blame our amplification or that they must not have been properly broken in? The fact is that there are many people who agree with the sentiment that the 650’s are kind of dull. If someone states that they like the 650’s I don’t immediately come out saying that it’s because the rest of their system must be overly bright and analytical. Why do I offer my opinion of the 600/650’s? I feel that it is important to share these opinions. If newbies hear varying opinions they are more likely to wait for an actual audition before making their purchases. The fact is that some people like a more detailed presentation. This is why my headphone inventory consists of AKG K1000 & K501 and Grado SR-325i’s and Sony SA-5000’s (the Jury is still out on the 5000’s) and Ety ER-4S’s. While some people like a warmer lusher (read dull and boring IMHO) presentation, for these people the HD 600/650’s are an ideal choice. Detailed or Warm, both are valid choices.

I agree with you. Too many people believe the 650 can is unflawed. I have owned the 580, 600, and 650's. I am now left with the 580's and picked up a pair of SA5000's to replace my 650's and not for a minute did I regret it.

-Alex-

 

[Andrea]

Detail is one of the undeniable strong suits of the HD650 IMHO. Its fineness and refinement may deceive here, I believe. I find the HD650 extremely revealing but with class. The HD595, for instance, has some more immediate detail -- and still it's definitely not on par as for being revealing of a recording's intimate characteristics.

Now, I'm not certain if I understand what you refer to precisely by "dull". But in the sense of resolution and tonal accuracy, dull is to be looked for elsewhere, IMHO.

 

[donunus]

Andrea I think I know what yikes means. I Had the 580 10 years ago and it sounded boring to me too. I bought grado sr80s and never listened to my senn for about a year. I picked up the senn and then my views on it changed. I started loving it but still wanted something in between in terms of how forward the sound is... that is why i recently purchased the 555. I think the cheaper grados are the best begginer headphones. They make you able to determine the presentation you want in a can without spending too much

 

[Andrea]

Btw, donunus, the HD650 is different from the HD580. It is about as forward as the HD595 for me. The treble is even slightly 'crisper'.

While I'm sure that the HD580/600 have a comparatively 'distant' midrange and a slightly aggressive lower treble -- which may actually equate to 'laidback' in my understanding.

The HD650, just as the HD595, is not 'laidback' in the sense that it has an intimist presentation.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes Why is it that when someone (Me) expresses the opinion that Sennheiser HD-650/600’s are a little less than stellar performers HD lovers immediately blame our amplification or that they must not have been properly broken in? The fact is that there are many people who agree with the sentiment that the 650’s are kind of dull. If someone states that they like the 650’s I don’t immediately come out saying that it’s because the rest of their system must be overly bright and analytical. Why do I offer my opinion of the 600/650’s? I feel that it is important to share these opinions. If newbies hear varying opinions they are more likely to wait for an actual audition before making their purchases. The fact is that some people like a more detailed presentation. This is why my headphone inventory consists of AKG K1000 & K501 and Grado SR-325i’s and Sony SA-5000’s (the Jury is still out on the 5000’s) and Ety ER-4S’s. While some people like a warmer lusher (read dull and boring IMHO) presentation, for these people the HD 600/650’s are an ideal choice. Detailed or Warm, both are valid choices.

I think it's your amplification

I think synergy goes further. With a bit of research and experimentating this can prove more fruitful than suggesting amplification changes.

 

[3lusiv3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes This is why my headphone inventory consists of AKG K1000 & K501 and Grado SR-325i’s and Sony SA-5000’s (the Jury is still out on the 5000’s) and Ety ER-4S’s.

It appears that you listen to classical and jazz. That is your answer. Most people want a fuller sound with better bass response than the headphones you own. I have no interest in the headphones that you own because they wouldn't suit what I listen too. I'm not very interested in detail but prefer a comfortable, full sounding, well rounded headphone and none of your headphones would suit me.

 

[Thaddy]

I've noticed the same thing for the Grado line up. If someone says they don't enjoy the sound, then obviously it's a problem with their amp, cables, source, recordings etc... Maybe some people don't care for the Grado sound, no matter what equipment they have.

Of course, the same thing can be said for the other manufacturers.

 

[12thgear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaddy I've noticed the same thing for the Grado line up. If someone says they don't enjoy the sound, then obviously it's a problem with their amp, cables, source, recordings etc... Maybe some people don't care for the Grado sound, no matter what equipment they have. Of course, the same thing can be said for the other manufacturers.

Exactly. It does seem that Grado and Sennheiser fans are the quickest to defend though. Mac/PC on a friendlier scale.

I'm not necessarily a Grado fan. I never got to hear a true Grado can. I read a lot of reviews and recommendations and learned about the Alessandro MS-1. Since my tastes generally favor headphones/speakers that are a little below what many consider bright, the MS-1 seemed like a good fit; I took a chance and ordered a pair. I love them. For $99 it's hard to go wrong.

I've heard a few different brands of headphones, but nothing above the $200 range. I need to attend a meet one of these days and expand my horizons.

I want a "Reverend Moondoggie, you just blew my mind" moment.

 

[acs236]

The problem is not with fans of any particular headphone -- HD650, Grados, or otherwise. The problem, which is very common in a variety of settings, is that a lot of people put too much stock into objective descriptions and judgments of headphones. People have different preferences, but beyond that, people's ears are physically different. Different people will prefer different headphones. Just because someone doesn't like the same gear you do, it doesn't mean they're wrong.

 

[Yikes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaddy I've noticed the same thing for the Grado line up. If someone says they don't enjoy the sound, then obviously it's a problem with their amp, cables, source, recordings etc... Maybe some people don't care for the Grado sound, no matter what equipment they have. Of course, the same thing can be said for the other manufacturers.

Exactly!

Due to differing tastes people will like different headphones. Just because I don’t like your chosen headphone does not mean that my amp or source is inappropriate (or that I haven’t tried enough amps), or that I listen to the wrong type of music. It’s just different strokes.

 

[Joey_V]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes The fact is that some people like a more detailed presentation. This is why my headphone inventory consists of AKG K1000 & K501 and Grado SR-325i’s and Sony SA-5000’s (the Jury is still out on the 5000’s) and Ety ER-4S’s. While some people like a warmer lusher (read dull and boring IMHO) presentation, for these people the HD 600/650’s are an ideal choice. Detailed or Warm, both are valid choices.

Amplification comments aside.

I dont find the 650s dull and boring. I find the SA5000 to be unnatural and treble-happy, all in my opinion of course. Diff strokes.

 

[OakIris]

I also find it unfortunate that people seem to feel the need to "defend" their choice of headphones, as if they need to justify the sound they like. I enjoy the sound of all of the headphones I have - including Senns - but would never consider posting that someone shouldn't buy, say, Grados, because only the headphone brands I have are any good. I've never had the opportunity to audition any Grados, but would like to do so.

If you don't like the signature sound of a particular make of headphones, throwing a lot of equipment at them - different amps, cables, etc. - is not going to help you like the sound better, IMHO.

I don't get the fanatical "PC/Wintel vs Apple" debate, either. Personally, I have only used PCs, but I have always heard great things about Apple computers, and know that many of the "advancements" in the PC/Windows design have been copied from Apple! What difference could it make to me if someone prefers Apple computers over PCs, and vice versa or Senns over Grados and vice versa?!?

Holly

 

[tkam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaddy I've noticed the same thing for the Grado line up. If someone says they don't enjoy the sound, then obviously it's a problem with their amp, cables, source, recordings etc...

I completely agree with this, it happens with all manufactures but more so with Grado than any other headphones. Other than the PS-1's which I own I can't stand any of the current Grado lineup and before anyone starts check my sig my amp and source are plenty good enough.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Thaddy Maybe some people don't care for the Grado sound, no matter what equipment they have.

This is also 100% true, the fact of the matter is everyone hears differently and likes a different type of sound.

 

[Thaddy]

I think the main reason for the huge love/hate relationships we have between the Sennheiser's and Grado's is because their general sound signatures are total opposites.

Some threads remind me of a boxing match, how the Grado guys are in one corner, while the Sennheiser guys are in the other...and the gloves are about to come off

"Get some Sennheiser's, you'll like the smooth laid back sound more."
"No screw that, Grado's are so much more engaging, and will rock your face off!"
"What? Grado's are harsh and bright, get Sennheisers because they don't have a nasty midrange coloration."
"At least you won't fall asleep with your Grado's on!"
"Well yeah, who can fall asleep with a sandpaper vice on your head?"

*sigh*