some W5000 thoughts from around the net
Dec 8, 2005 at 10:11 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 23

ayt999

Headphoneus Supremus
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since there aren't enough W5000 threads around, I've made yet another.
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I'll be posting links from various blogs and whatnot from Japan to get other opinions on them... at least I hope I can do that since so far information about them seems to be pretty minimal, although there are some here and there. most of this stuff are from sometime in November and I could have done this earlier, but I was a bit busy and also not too interested (I should be heading to Japan one of these days so I was thinking of waiting until then to form an opinion about the can or buy one) so thus the delay.
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comments in parentheses are mine btw....

1.

someone's blog site:
http://www.ashrization.com/mt/archiv.../athw5000.html

here, the guy attended a prerelease W5000 listening session at Dynamic Audio 5555 (a high-end store in Akihabara). he explains that the headphone is easy on the head and wears loosely (although in relation to what I don't know, the AT headphones are generally comfortable too), the sound leaks a decent amount but isolation is decent, from the external characteristics (such as the ebony wood trim) you might imagine a heavy and dark sound but on the contrary it is the exact opposite with a bright and clear (effortless) sound to the point that it might be too clear, on the surface it doesn't sound bad but it seems that the clearness becomes overwhelming and the depth perception becomes thin, seems that a phrase such as closed-type that's like an open headphone describes the sound well, seems that small compilation classic and female vocals such as in pop music matches the headphone well, and one of the participants explained that listening to it confirmed his predictions that its sound was of the W1000-type, which the blogger agrees. he asks himself whether he'll buy it or not, to which he explains that he is a bit hesitant to do so, because he thinks that the W5000's character doesn't seem to match the type of music he listens to, and not because of the price, which he thinks the headphone deserves.

2.

not really anything of use to this thread, but noticed some pictures that I don't think I've seen yet.
http://plusd.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle...3/news046.html

isn't this dude a more appropriate model for the headphone since after all he seems to match the W5000 end-user more.
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http://image.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle...3/mn_at01a.jpg
http://image.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle...13/mn_at02.jpg

the article itself is the usual marketing blurb, but this CK7 picture seems to show it a bit differently than the rest with its shiny body so that was interesting.

http://image.itmedia.co.jp/lifestyle...13/mn_at07.jpg

all the others seem to give it a duller appearance. here's a nice page with some non-stock photos IMO.

http://www.assiston.co.jp/?item=1235

3.

now we come to the insanely popular Japanese internet forum (the largest in the world) and see what they have to offer.
http://hobby7.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/av/1128569522/l50

mainly all we find here (in a thread titled the "greatest closed headphones part 5") are some rankings. (I'll use a $1 = 100 yen conversion for simplicity)

post 434:

~$1h: A500
$1h~$2h: A900
$2h~$3h: A900LTD
$3h~$5h: W1000
$5h~$1k: W5000
$1k~: L3000

(he says that he tried to do it as a joke but apparently it didn't work out so well.... fanboy.
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)

post 438: (which apparently is based on post 429)

~$1h: A500 /SE-M870
$1h~$2h: A900 / DJ1PRO
$2h~$3h: Proline 750 / HD25
$3h~$5h: W1000 / CD3000
$5h~$1k: DX1000 / W5000
$1k~: 4070 / Edition 7

says he listed the more well-rounded multi-purpose cans on the left...

(this list is pretty intresting since it has a few that isn't generally talked about on Head-Fi for one reason or another, along with a few that seem to have highly polarized opinions, mostly unfavorable than favorable as far as I can tell, namely the DX1000 and the E7. seems that more posts with similar rankings continue for a bit, changing the DJ1PRO for the K271 at times, or going with a DJ1PRO / K271 at other times along with getting rid of the W5k, one person mentions the R10 as his pick for over $1k.... all again just personal opinions and I have no clue how they came to this conclusion.
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)

here's post 429 just because I mentioned it above:

~$1h: A500
$1h~$2h: A900
$2h~$3h: HD25 / Proline 750
$3h~$5h: CD3000
$5h~$1k: DX1000 / W5000
$1k~: 4070 / Edition 7 / Omega-II

for all these rankings who knows if they actually listened to them all and are basing it on a knowledgable comparison or just going by online reviews or whatever... so I guess they are not that useful.

4.

searching around other parts of the 2ch forum we come to the mass that is the "nice headphone" series of threads, currently at part 79.

somewhere around post 762, part 77... someone mentions that he's heard the W5000. (it being Nov 11th and before the launch date he gets quite a few requests that he post impressions. I guess he attended that dynamic audio prerelease thing too.)


so post 769:

first, he mentions that he's new to this and that he seems out of place in the listening session among the O2, L3000 and E7 owners, so he follows the lead of the others with the impressions.... the headphone is lightweight contrary to how it appears and easy to wear, the sound also contrary to its appearance practically the exact opposite (which apparently is the opinion of everyone present), the sound is light (he uses the term "light-tasting" so he probably means an effortless sound as opposed to a syrupy and thick sound which would be described as "thick-tasting") and beautiful, supposedly the sound is close to the STAX sound (to me this seems contradictory to the other stuff written though... no?), it doesn't have rumbling bass and is more geared towards jazz and classical music, the thing is flat (I guess in the context of it having a pretty neutral frequency response I guess?) and is an excelling headphone so you can say it is a headphone suited for anything in some regard (apparently this is something the AT rep who was at the listening session also mentioned.), the dude says that the can's personality is pretty thin so he's troubled as to how exactly to use the headphone, the W5000 is along the lines of the AD2000 in terms of sound (supposedly also mentioned by the AT rep), rock and jazz vocals is too light and unsatisfactory but female vocals are glowing, the headphone goes well with acoustic sounds, its sound is flat and has a wide range and positioning is well defined (contrary to how the AD2000 does positioning), imaging is monitor-like but the soundstage itself is wide, the headphone leaks sound but isolation is pretty good, and the headphone has enough of an open-headphone characteristic that you cannot believe it is a closed headphone (seems that the AT rep also pushes the W5000's openness and soundstaging). he says that to describe it in a word, "clear and refreshing" comes to mind. he says that the headphone seems to be more of an evolution of the AD2000 than the W1000.


a while later in post 801 another dude that went to the same preview event posts his thoughts:

first he introduces himself as the dude in the white shirt at the event. (I guess other event attendees knowing who's posting is important....) he first mentions that the W5000 uncharacteristically doesn't have much of the closed-headphone feel. rather than the thickness of the sound it emphasizes wide-range sonics and rather than a glossy sound the sound is more gentle. in terms of quality it seems equal to the W2002, but the character might be far more different than what he originally imagined. regarding the bass supposedly it extends further to the lower limits with a flat curve than before. for the treble and the upper extreme supposedly it is more accurate than the W2002 or the L3000 he had on hand, maybe a bit too much so, so he didn't have any impulse impressions (I guess what he means here is that if it were more flawed than the two he would have something to say, but since it is more accurate he isn't complaining?). he says that he has a good impression of it himself, but isn't sure whether it suites the tastes of others and it might be toss-up. to sum it up the W5000 is something like the rival unit to the DX1000 whose character doesn't overlap at all. he also mentions that it might be a statistical variation of the W5000 test unit, but he says that the earpad's shape may have changed slightly from previous models. also he says that it had the least feeling of oddness when worn compared to the other cans in the ATH-W series.


a random post I found that's sort of related to this... post 949:

says that the W5000 isn't something he needs to buy since at least through his understanding of the reviews, the DX1000 is more appealing to him (which I guess is a headphone he owns or has on order from the way he's talking).


post 964:

here we read that for this dude the DX1000 and W5000 are pretty much on equal terms and the rest would depend on which fits the user's tastes more.


5. and 6. are in post #5.

--------------------
I hope most of this is new stuff, but I think I've seen most of the W5000 discussion here so far and haven't seen this so it probably is new for this site. I also hope it adds other opinions and views on the new headphone in a good way.
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I didn't select these at all and simply posted anything worth posting in the mass of google hits I got so it should be pretty unbiased and encompassing the range of opinion.
 
Dec 8, 2005 at 10:12 AM Post #2 of 23
okay... so some observations after that terribly long search (way too many storefronts and media cut-and-paste equipment reports to shift through... I'm sure there are plenty of other useful user impressions I didn't get to so maybe I'll update the thread with those later).

it seems that the headphone, like some have already stated here, is more of the W1000 lineage, which means sonically the W5000 should sound similar to a W2002, W100, and others in that general ATH-W sonic group. these tend to have a clearer, thinner (as in not an overly organic, rich, or warm sound), and neutral (not an overly bassy sound) than the W10VTG, W11JPN, or L3000 which tend to be more of the warmer, layered, and usually more bassy type in the ATH-W series. this is a pretty large generalization and there's definite overlapping and stuff going on, but that's how I usually tend to think of the ATH-W series sound. the impressions of a few Head-Fiers liking the W5000 more than the L3000 might have to do with them favoring more of the W5000 type of sound... from what I've read I think I'll prefer the L3000 variety, although I'll have to wait until I hear the W5000 before knowing for sure. one thing though, is that I've yet to buy either the AD2000 or the W1000 so that may be an indication.

although I'm sure with the various L3000 store demos and whatnot available in Japan the people writing the impressions had a chance to hear that, it is pretty interesting to note that the usual headphones the W5000 are compared to are the W1000, DX1000, and AD2000. I wish there were more comparisons to the L3000 or W2002, but there was plenty of stuff relating the W5000 to the DX1000, so I guess that works for me. I'm not sure what their opinion of the DX1000 relative to the L3000 are, but for me the L3000 is above the DX1000 in terms of speed, clarity, extension, and detail (and probably whatever else you can think of... the DX1000 has a larger soundstage, but I cannot think of much more it does better, at least offhand) and I'll have to assume that they think the same. the headphone price ranking thing, although to what extent that thing is correct, seems to go along with this, and since I don't want to search for further proof, this will do fine.
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so anyways, it seems that the headphone falls above the W1000 and AD2000 (either of which seem to be the basis of the W5000 depending on who you want to believe, and it probably takes elements from both as you can see clear physical similarities between the AD2000 and the W5000, and the W5000 seems to be a successor of the W1000 in the ATH-W lineup as another non-limited edition headphone, and also with regards to the price) but probably below the L3000? I'm sure personal preferences play a role in this, so some who value the W5000 strengths more will go for that, while others may end up going for the L3000 still.

also, how the DX1000 is a very different-sounding headphone from pretty much any other out there (receiving a lot of polarized reviews looking at the San Jose meet thread and the few review threads present here), and how people say it technically is at the same level as the W5000, is just another example that shows the difference in opinions and preferences.

anyways, I'm looking forward to hearing this headphone and may or may not buy it then depending on what I think of it... but you know I'll eventually get it into my collection.
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I think it'll become another fine addition to the ATH-W family at the level of the W2002 and L3000 offering another slightly different flavor, sort of like how the Qualia 010 release didn't replace the R10.


also, I don't think I've seen anyone link to this website yet:
http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/...000/index.html

that's the ATH-W5000 special contents page, just like how they had one for the ATH-L3000... although not as feature-rich or extensive as the L3000 page probably due to its non-limited nature. also, they have a link to the ATH-L3000 on that page, which I doubt they'll do that if they think that the W5000 is a replacement for the L3000?
 
Dec 8, 2005 at 12:10 PM Post #4 of 23
The $64,000 question (or to be more precise, the $1,000 question) is, is it worth buying it over the urushi-phones? I rarely use the W2002 these days but it might be nice to have something with less peaky mids and the same capability.


[size=xx-small]I like the case. Wonder if a Qualia would fit in it? [/size]
 
Dec 8, 2005 at 2:24 PM Post #5 of 23
some more stuff....

again, my comments in parentheses.

5.

the current AT thread at 2ch.net
http://hobby7.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/av/1132929643/


post 461 (since this is around the time of the release people are starting to get the cans...):

says that his W5000's arrived and that that he bought it as a step-up from the AD2000 but the lateral pressure is too loose and it doesn't fit him well. (I guess the fit is a bit too relaxed now and while some people enjoy it compared to the previous generations, sometimes it backfires) on first impressions the sound is clearer than the AD2000 but the highs are edgy / piercing and the bass is flabby / not fully developed. (the dude uses the terms "shari-shari" and "suka-suka" for these which are phrases that describe the sound directly so I don't know what a good english translation for them are....) due to this,he's going to age them for now. (age being their term for what people on Head-Fi usually call burn-in)


post 464:

this poster comments on the previous dude's post saying that the "shari-shari" and "suka-suka" are typical of the AT house sound and also recalls the mention of the AT house sound resemblance remarked at the AT prerelease function. but then he mentions the W5000 resembling the AD2000 sound and how that doesn't fit in with those ideas. (as for me I'm not sure about at least this take on the AT house sound and it probably is a matter of the burn-in issue.)


post 540:

(this dude is responding to post 534, where a person asked about a A900LTD and W5000 comparison if anyone has both)

the A900LTD is flat, and for AT the midrange and low end are present more than usual, while the highs are not shrilly and easy to listen to. the PRAT is good. it is especially good with female vocals. in contrast the W5000 leans more towards the highs, and although this is before aging he thinks this signature won't change. the lows are extremely tight and fast, and extends quite deep. overall the A900LTD has a slight wet sound, while the W5000 sounds dry. in terms of resolution the A900LTD is decent and pretty average for this class, but the W5000 easily does better. the resolution is easily at the level where you can hear each note separately, he has the ER-4S but the W5000 is one or two ranks higher in this regard. you can say that it is similar to the ER-4S in that it practically doesn't have any incidental sounds. he says that he personally thinks that the W5000 isn't a headphone to listen to music in much of a fun manner. he ends by saying that it isn't the W5000 but he feels that it is more like something around a W2005. (hey, a W2002 reference... haven't seen much of those so far.)


post 546 (the poster from above adds to his comments after further questions from others):

as he uses it more, the high end gets tighter and the low end is getting more prominent than before, so there's still a slight imbalance towards the highs but the balance is flatter now. it plays fast-tempoed songs very well.


post 561 (after a question about a comparison to the W2002):

says that at the AT prerelease event there was a former W2002 owner and that the sound closely resembles the W2002 but the price reflects the sound. (now the W2002 had a MSRP of 100,000 yen and the W5000 isn't too far off at 120,000 yen, and with inflation and whatever else might be a factor, so who knows what this statement means.)


post 576 (the former W2002 owner mentioned in post 561 appears and posts his comments):

he start off by saying that his comments are from memory, but he thinks that the W2002 and the W5000 are similar. but in terms of pure efficiency, the ability to faithfully reproduce the source information, he thinks that the W5000 has a slight advantage. the W2002 has a peculiar accent on the low and highs that combined with the basic features of the headphone to produce a unique flavor, but the W5000 has a flat balance that you couldn't easily find elsewhere. he explains that the sparkling highs that he experienced uniquely in the W2002 might be a function of the silver-streaked cable. (supposedly the AT rep present at the event also mentioned this.) with regards to the W5000, he gets the impression that they are a hi-fi headphone without any peculiarities, just like the other impressions are saying, and that he especially likes the gentleness of the high end. he says that regarding that one trait he sometimes may think (sort of jokingly) that it may exceed the L3000 that he once owned? since he's a basshead that's the only aspect that dissatisfies him. but then he explains that the extension to the very low end is quite impressive.


post 583:

resolution W5000>>DX1000
transparency W5000>>DX1000
S/N W5000>>>>>DX1000
speed W5000>DX1000
soundstage DX1000>>W5000
positioning DX1000>>W5000
prat DX1000>W5000

(now who knows how useful this thing actually is or how reliable the source is... but it seems to go along with what I can tell of the W5000 sound signature from the impressions, and how it might compare to the sound of my DX1000, using various other ATH-W cans as a reference.)


post 677:

this dude went to do an audition of the A900LTD, W1000, and the W5000. he says in one word, the W1000 has ear-piercing highs, the W5000 doesn't do that, and the A900LTD seems to be a fun can to listen to. he explains that he didn't get to listen to the DX1000 but says that it seems to be an appealing headphone and seems like the best easy-listening headphone of the bunch.


post 743:

predicts that general conclusion might be reached before the current thread is done (for those not familiar with the structure of this forum, it revolves around 1000-post threads that get restarted only if there's enough positive interest so threads don't get old or stale) and that the ultimate seems to be the DX1000. he also says that the W5000 seems to be a one to consider. (I'm not sure why there's so much interest in the DX1000 at this forum, especially with the apparent lack of interest and dislike on Head-Fi... but then I guess the two seem to have pretty different tastes from the posts I've looked at doing this W5000 impression hunt.)


(here's an interesting succession of posts that seems to answer bangraman's inquiry pretty directly....)

post 748:
if there's a used W2002 for sale and a new W5000, which would you get? (they list a price if you want to go find it, but it seems pretty irrelevant to repost here due to different markets and whatnot.)

post 749:
buy the W5000. I'll buy the W2002. please tell me where they are selling this W2002.

post 750:
with that selection I'll also go for the W2002. the W2002 has quite a good reputation even in the AT offerings, and moreover it is very difficult to obtain. so tell me where they are selling it.

post 751: (the original poster responds)
right, just as I thought. I'll go buy it tomorrow.


(and that's the latest of the ongoing W5000 discussion in that thread....)


6.

the current "nice headphone" thread at 2ch.net
http://hobby7.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/av/1133849219/

post 57:

the DX1000 itself is a rather good headphone. but since the W5000 and DX1000 are exact opposites of each other, the opinions are divided, and personally I'll choose the DX1000 for its imaging within the soundstage.


(now this thread seems to be a bit too new thus not really plentiful in the W5000 discussion)
 
Dec 8, 2005 at 2:28 PM Post #7 of 23
ayt999,

Your efforts are very much appreciated! Getting information out of a Japanese headphone forum is very difficult if one speaks only Babelfish, and right now, I am especially interested in information comparing the DX1000 and the W5000. From what I read in the three DX1000 HeadFi reviews by you, soupy and TheSloth, the DX1000 with its relaxed and smooth character might be more to my liking than the W5000. I was afraid that the ebony enclosures might give the W5000 a somewhat leaner, more analytical sound. It seems that could be the case.

I'm just a little surprised that you seem to regard the old W100 as one of the leaner and colder ATH-Ws. I am very fond of mine exactly because it is fairly warm, full and smooth (more relaxed and forgiving than the R10, for example). To my ears the W100 has a triode-like liquidity. I recall that many who have heard the W100, the W2002 and the W1000 seem to think of the W100 as the warmest and most forgiving of the three. I wish I had the opportunity to listen to more of the ATH-Ws. Unfortunately, the W100 is the only one I know. Feel free to help me out with some additional comments about your own experiences.
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Dec 8, 2005 at 2:45 PM Post #8 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomcat
I'm just a little surprised that you seem to regard the old W100 as one of the leaner and colder ATH-Ws.


hmm... let me listen to them again and make sure I got that right. been a while since I've heard them at least.
tongue.gif


so after a quick listen, I'll still put them with the W1000 and W2002, although its sound is much closer to the other group than the W1000 and W2002 are. I did say that there might be some overlap and major generalizations going on didn't I?

the W10VTG, W11JPN, and L3000 are much more so with the richness and fullness so the W100 doesn't get to join them, at least in my list.
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Dec 8, 2005 at 3:01 PM Post #9 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by ayt999
hmm... let me listen to them again and make sure I got that right. been a while since I've heard them at least.


ayt999,

That was a lightning fast response! Great, thank you!

Just one point. When I listen to my W100 for the first time again, after a hiatus of a couple of weeks, they go through another break-in period. If I haven't used them for a while, they can sound cold and screechy at first. They need time to loosen up again. I guess behaviour like that isn't uncommon with musical instruments either. Violins, for example, tend to sound best when they are played fairly continuously. And since the W100 isn't lacquered, it's a good idea to apply oil or wax to the enclosure from time to time. So, either your W100 is unhappy because you rarley use it, or I need a W11JPN or an L3000. You selling?
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How do you rate the DX1000 in the warm and relaxed and non-analytically musical department?
 
Dec 8, 2005 at 3:31 PM Post #10 of 23
keep in mind that I've had most of these ATH-W cans for a while (other than the W10VTG that I got relatively recently, all the others I've had for at least a year or two, and in the case of the W11JPN I've had that since 1998 or 1999) and the impressions are based on long term listening so I doubt that matters. do you rely purely on whatever your gear currently sounds like for your impressions?
 
Dec 8, 2005 at 5:01 PM Post #11 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by ayt999
do you rely purely on whatever your gear currently sounds like for your impressions?


ayt999,

Sure, I'd tend to rely more on fresh listening imnpressions than on old ones. But I fully believe that your impression is correct that the W11JPN is warmer than the W100. There are others who perceive a similar difference, overlunge, for one. As I understand his posts he thinks of the L3000 as slighlty less warm than the W100, but he absolutely agrees with you about the W11JPN and the W10VTG, it seems.

However, warm or not, that's not what really interests me, in the end. What I am most curious about is which of the wooden headphones is the least anlytical, the least hi-fi-ish, the most liquid and cohesive, the most communicative about the music's emotional message. When there's a choice between the typical hi-fi criteria like detail, resolution, transparency and so forth on one side and emotional involvement on the other, I would always choose the component that's emotionally more involving.

Therefore my question: if you had to rate the ATH-Ws, the ATH-L and the DX1000 in that regard, how would you do it? Which one offers the most relaxed, non-analytical and non-fatiguing listening pleasure? I am aware that judgements like that tend to be highly subjective. But I guess if there is anyone who could tell me, it's you. You know 'em all.
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Dec 8, 2005 at 5:44 PM Post #13 of 23
Alex,
Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it. My impression of the L3000 is very similar to your and from reading those posts, the W5000 sounds very simlar to my W2002. I will get to hear the W5000 next week, so I will report back.
 
Dec 8, 2005 at 5:49 PM Post #14 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman
[size=xx-small]I like the case. Wonder if a Qualia would fit in it? [/size]


Heck with the Qualia's, how do the L3000's fit in there?
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Dec 8, 2005 at 7:07 PM Post #15 of 23
Just to chime in on the lineage of audio technica's W series, I have stated previously IMHO there are two underlying sound signature lines which were carried from very earlier on.

To my ears, the ranking from more analytical to musical sound...

W1000>W10LTD>W2002>W100>W11R>L3000>W10VTG>W11JPN

The grey area exist between the W2002 and L3000, I felt can be influenced by the characteristics of the rest of the equipment and go either way, but at the extremes, W1000 and W11JPN has stronger characteristics (IMHO).


Overlunge
 

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