[AHumblePerson]

Hello All;
 
Long time forum surfer here.  I tried, I honestly tried not making a thread, but I cant stay away.  I'm chasing a pair of headphones and it's just driving me nuts.  I wrote this whole post before hand last night while listening to my music collection (all 320 mp3) pointing out things like "this song could use more bass" or "I'd really like to be able to hear her voice better"... basically trying to describe what I want to hear in my music.  If you could just hear me out, I'll try not to waste any more of your time explaining what I'm looking for.  I just wanna say that I don't at all believe that I am an audiophile, I definitely don't have a pair of "golden ears".  I'm just looking for some good/great sound.
 
Based on my experience, I'm a fan of the "V" shaped response.  I find myself listening to more and more "modern" music like electronic, EDM, dubstep... like Bassnectar, Sir Sly, Sweedish House Mafia, some Skrillex here and there, good old Basshunter, etc.  So I'm looking for solid, and I mean SOLID bass impact (quantity and quality).  I find myself even gravitating towards R&B music just to hear that more of that "thump" at times.  At the same time I also want that "sparkle" in the treble.  So right now it would seem that maybe a pair of Beyers or maybe an Ultrasone would fit the bill.
 
But I also listen to rock music.  I'd say I value my rock music just as, if not more than my electronic music collection.  I'm not talking about that hard metal stuff with the ear piercing screaming through the whole song.  The closest I have to that is a few tracks from Avenged Sevenfold and Killswitch Engage.  For rock I listen to bands like Rise Against, Breaking Benjamin, Red, Trapt, Trivium, My Chemical Romance, Three Days Grace, The Veer Union, some Nickleback.  For alternative I listen to bands like Cold Play, Linkin Park, 30 Seconds to Mars, Lifehouse, OneRepublic.  I want that "thump" when I hear drums, and I want crisp treble for the cymbals.  So maybe Grados would fit the bill now.   But that "v" shaped response could prove to be a problem since I wanna be able to hear the mids and point out details in the mids better, like vocals.  
 
Speaking of vocals, I have to say, I'm a big fan of female vocals.  In electronic music I like the presence of a female voice.  I feel it adds a kind of addictive rhythm that makes me want to keep hearing that song over and over again.  I also like listening to some tracks from Evanescence (I feel that there entire album Fallen is a perfect blend of rock and female vocals).  So mids are VERY important.  I would like the vocals to be realistic/organic/smooth, but I also would like them to be emphasized... well maybe emphasized isn't the word I'm looking for.  More like... I want to be able to hear them clearly and listen to all the little details in the mids, so I guess a big soundstage would help with that.
 
I don't really listen to classical, I think the closest I get to that is maybe orchestral music.  I listen to a few OST's from movies and video games.  I do also listen to some violin solos from Lindsey Stirling.  I guess soundstage would also be important here.  Or maybe I'm thinking of instrument separation?
 
At this point I honestly don't have a clue of what I want.  Maybe the HE-400?  Q701?  HD650?  A pair of Grado's?  Mad dogs?
 
I'll do a quick summary of what I want in the sound;
 
Treble:  I feel this is my most questionable area.  I think... that I enjoy a piercing treble.  I like to hear that "ring" when I high note comes along (not ringing in my ears).  I definitely want that "sparkle" although I don't want it to be too fatiguing.  I want it to be aggressive... but again not too fatiguing.    I guess I want it to be piercing/ringing/sparkling/aggressive but I don't really want it to be very loud volume wise... it that makes sense.  I guess the main thing I don't want with the treble is for it to be "raspy".  Clarity is also very important as I enjoy listening to details.
 
Mids:  I would like the mids to be able to stand out from the chaos that is created by the treble and bass.  Again, I enjoy listening to details... they make me smile.  They don't necessarily have to be forward, I just want to be able to hear them clearly, like vocals, guitars, etc.  Vocals (female especially) are of a particular concern in this category.  I would like for female vocals to be... intimate and realistic.
 
Bass:  Quality AND Quantity.  I enjoy hearing a strong thump from drums, beats, drops, etc.  I want it quick and tight; don't really want it "bleeding" into the mids or treble, but I definitely want for it to resonate and be impactful.  I also want a great sub bass (movie theatre bass) because I also plan on using these to watch movies.  I definitely want that EPIC sensation to the sound.  That would go well with my OST tracks as well.
 
Headphones Summary;
I'll be using these for music, movies and gaming.  Gaming is probably the least important of the three, but all three are important (I play competitive fps on xbox).  I'm looking for headphones and an amp/dac.  My budget is around $650.  I'm pretty much set on getting the ODAC with the Magni (open to other suggestions).  The two of those will set me back around $265, so my budget for headphones is around $385 (I could probably add around $20 to that).  Isolation isn't an issue because I'll be using these at home on my laptop.  Comfort is also important, but not even close to the importance of sound quality.  
 
Final Summary;
I want to make it clear that I in no way want a laid back headphone (though you guys probably could have guessed that based on what I want).  I want to feel engaged in the sound.  I want to be wowed when I put them on.  I wanna feel the energy.  I want them to sound musical, not too realistic/analytical.  Like I said I'm a fan of the exciting "v" shaped response, but unfortunately it doesn't play so well with mids which are also important to me.
 
And I'm torn between open or closed headphones.  I know I want a good soundstage, but I don't want the sound to feel "distant".  I want the music to be... not necessarily in your face, more like... I want to be able to feel like I'm part of it all.  But I don't want it to feel congested or too compact.  It doesn't have to be open/airy, I just don't want the sound to be congested/compact.  I want good instrument separation for my music and an open or "3d" soundstage for movies/games.
 
If your still reading this I throw a thousand thank you's your way.  I know I'm all over the place with my explanations.  But like I said I'm listening to my music while typing this out, going back and forth and all, trying to perfectly craft those explanations to help you better understand me... at a personal level... or as close as I can get to that point.  Any recommendations you could give me would be more than appreciated.
 
Some headphones I have in mind are;
HE-400
Ultrasone Pro 900
Beyer DT770 or DT990
Mad Dogs
Grado SR60i/225i/335i
 
Thank you again for reading this and hopefully you can help me out.

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
Based on your description, I can think of a few headphones right away that I would suggest you look into heavily. I would like to stress that you can use an equalizer to perfect the overall sound of a headphone to your liking. So go with a model that is close, stock, to what you want. And then simply tweak the bass/treble to the "V" that you prefer since your ears are going to dictate what you like. That will save you an endless search for the perfect headphone which doesn't exist.
 
Hifiman HE-400 - Everything you described. Highest quality bass, near perfect ortho mids, and a sparkle to the treble. Very friendly for equalization if you want to increase bass or or treble. Highest recommendation.
Beyer DT990 PRO 250ohm - Everything you described, with a little more mid-bass and a little more sparkle in the treble.
Ultrasone PRO 2900 - Everything you described, with even more bass, but very costly. Worth it though if you want copious controlled bass.
Denon D5000 - Everything you described, stock. Discontinued. Very pricey now.
Mr Speaker Mad Dog with SR007 Stax Pads - Like the HE400, but closed back, and able to be tweaked for ridiculously well controlled and potent sub-bass with ortho quality.
 
Based on what you described, the DT990 and PRO2900 might be your top picks, but I would definitely put stress on the HE400 and adding a little equalization to get it just right for your needs as it has overall best quality here.
 
For source equipment, I would keep it simple.
 
Schiit Modi/Magni will be great, it's less costly, but the DAC is USB only and has no other inputs. Even though they match, I would probably get a DAC with more input options for future use with other equipment (not just a PC).
JDS Labs ODAC/O2 also a great deal. A little more costly. But the ODAC has the same limitation, of being USB only, so only useable with PC.
 
 
Those are going to give you the most for your money right now. You can mix and match them of course, that's up to you. Personally I like matching equipment when possible for style purposes since you're going to see it on your desk all the time.
 
Very best,

 

[AHumblePerson]

Mal to the rescue!  Thank you for the response, seriously.  Those all sound top notch.  The HE-400 was at the top of my list.  
The Denons and Pro 2900 sound good, but their a bit out of my headphone budget and I won't be able to get a dac/amp if I get them.   Oh well, the DT990 Pro 250 ohm sounds like my next best option anyways as it has more bass AND more sparkly treble unlike the Pro 2900 which only has more bass.  There are a couple of things that concern me though if I choose the DT990's;
 
1. Would you say the DT990 Pro 250 ohm's mids are recessed?  How do they compare to the HE-400's mids, is it even close?
2. I'm curious as to why you recommended the DT990 Pro 250 ohm over the Premium 250 ohm.
 
On the other hand, I could go HE-400.  The way you said "near perfect ortho mids" makes me want to get them right now.  I understand their my best option if I EQ them, but the only problem with EQing is that it isn't really available when gaming and watching movies though.  I'm also no master at EQing.
 
Also how would you compare the Mad Dogs bass to the HE-400 with no EQing to either one?

 

[pbal]

100% agree with Mal. But when it come down to it, Follow Your Heart.

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

Mal to the rescue!  Thank you for the response, seriously.  Those all sound top notch.  The HE-400 was at the top of my list.  
The Denons and Pro 2900 sound good, but their a bit out of my headphone budget and I won't be able to get a dac/amp if I get them.   Oh well, the DT990 Pro 250 ohm sounds like my next best option anyways as it has more bass AND more sparkly treble unlike the Pro 2900 which only has more bass.  There are a couple of things that concern me though if I choose the DT990's;
 
1. Would you say the DT990 Pro 250 ohm's mids are recessed?  How do they compare to the HE-400's mids, is it even close?
2. I'm curious as to why you recommended the DT990 Pro 250 ohm over the Premium 250 ohm.
 
On the other hand, I could go HE-400.  The way you said "near perfect ortho mids" makes me want to get them right now.  I understand their my best option if I EQ them, but the only problem with EQing is that it isn't really available when gaming and watching movies though.  I'm also no master at EQing.
 
Also how would you compare the Mad Dogs bass to the HE-400 with no EQing to either one?

 
Heya,
 
The DT990 PRO 250ohms's mids are slightly recessed. This is true for any headphone or speaker that has elevated bass/treble. Mids are technically recessed if any other frequency ranges are louder. So every "V" frequency response, even if it's just 1db difference, is technically "recessed." It's a term that actually gets used way, way too loosely around here. Someone will say the mids are recessed on one headphone, and someone will say they're recessed on another, and when you compare things like the DT770 and the XB500 are use the words "recessed mids" it's very misleading as it doesn't have a quantifier and they are not equal in terms of their presentation of mids. Just the generic and misleading term, "recessed mids." The reality is that the DT990's mids, while technically recessed, are still quite good and sound appropriate; they're not too distant or dim and are not over-bearing either. The HE-400's mids are better, not by a long shot, that would be exaggeration, but by a margin enough to say that it's a clear winner in the mids department. Ortho mids are a little other-worldly, so to speak. They just sound so natural and are still very high quality even when bass is enhanced a little.
 
The DT990 PRO is generally less expensive than the Premium. That's the only reason it was recommended. If you like the look of the Premium better and don't mind paying extra money for the same headphone with a different look, by all means, do as you see fit there.
 
The Mad Dogs's bass is about the same, maybe ever so slightly more when it comes to sub-bass, compared to the HE400 (which is generally the case for most headphones that are closed as they will more easily perform in low frequencies).
 
Based on how you described things, even though I think the HE400 would be the best use of your money, the DT990 is probably going to be the winner here, because it will do what you want without equalization so you can use it with any source, and have that "V" response that you like. They're also very durable, comfortable and way less expensive. Makes them a clear option to me.
 
Very best,

 

[AHumblePerson]

Thank you for taking time to answer my questions and then some.  Very informative stuff.  I'll definitely look into it some more before making a decision but you've really helped me out.  Thank you.