Soekris Audiophile Line Dac's 2541, 1541, 1421, 1321, 1101
Jun 15, 2022 at 1:43 PM Post #301 of 478
We are on a Soekris thread and you should verify what you state ! Soren never provided any firmware with NOS filter. He just offer the possibility to upload custom filters in dac prior to 2451. You can find specific info here ! Soekris DAC are not NOS DAC so who care about NOS fans !
[...]
Base your choice on technical details and measurement, add mystical belief on cable is for me the best way to spend your life in chasing the perfect setup and never be happy with what you can afford.
This is probably right. Custom filters loaded on the top of firmware, right. Technically it becomes an integrated part of firmware, creating a custom firmware, so I didn't really make a mistake. :)

It is also correct that Soekris is not NOS DAC and any attempts to make it NOS failed which means that internal electronics is not capable to handle a noise. The user is dependent on the inferior internal DSP processing, while R2R-11 is a native NOS DAC, when combined with upsampling on the PC using Foobar 2000 with SoX or PGGB it carry no signs of digital artefacts, especially true with PGGB which include millions of taps. I tested it myself using samples provided by the author of PGGB and noticed some improvement, but not to the level that would justify permanent switching to oversampling mode. In the end I listen all music in a native format. These days most of titles are available in high resolution format at no extra cost, so all this bashing about OS/NOS is becoming less relevant. What is important is a quality of electronics inside a DAC and I am happy with.

You mention measurements, I don't care. Cables make sense, however it only becomes important when transparency of the system reaches certain level. Below that level all cables sound the same. :)
 
Jun 21, 2022 at 4:04 AM Post #302 of 478
When your approximately $1600 worth DAC (with VAT & import duty) comes in a simple cardboard box like this with a glued on paper sheet, you can be sure the design philosophy prioritised sound above anything else and aimed to keep any other cost down. :)

IMG_20220621_085857.jpg
 
Jun 21, 2022 at 4:30 AM Post #303 of 478
When your approximately $1600 worth DAC (with VAT & import duty) comes in a simple cardboard box like this with a glued on paper sheet, you can be sure the design philosophy prioritised sound above anything else and aimed to keep any other cost down. :)

IMG_20220621_085857.jpg
Please give impressions, especially if you have experience with previous Soekris DACs (1421 or 1541). I am thinking of moving on from the 1421 (after a few other upgrades) and want to know how much longer I should stick to what I have. I'm thinking quite a while still :)
 
Jun 21, 2022 at 4:37 AM Post #304 of 478
Please give impressions, especially if you have experience with previous Soekris DACs (1421 or 1541). I am thinking of moving on from the 1421 (after a few other upgrades) and want to know how much longer I should stick to what I have. I'm thinking quite a while still :)
This is my first R2R DAC, so won't be able to compare to the 1421. I owned some D/S and Chord DACs, so some brief impressions are coming up later. Probably versus the RME ADI-2 as that is what I have around right now.
 
Jun 21, 2022 at 4:56 AM Post #305 of 478
This is my first R2R DAC, so won't be able to compare to the 1421. I owned some D/S and Chord DACs, so some brief impressions are coming up later. Probably versus the RME ADI-2 as that is what I have around right now.
RME AK version is one of the least chipdac sounding chipdacs. So yeah, this ought to be a very important comparison :)
 
Jun 21, 2022 at 6:52 AM Post #306 of 478
When your approximately $1600 worth DAC (with VAT & import duty) comes in a simple cardboard box like this with a glued on paper sheet, you can be sure the design philosophy prioritised sound above anything else and aimed to keep any other cost down. :)

IMG_20220621_085857.jpg
I like the box though. Simple, utilitarian..
 
Jun 21, 2022 at 7:28 AM Post #307 of 478
I like the box though. Simple, utilitarian..
20 years from now there will be a brisk trade in Soekris boxes. So @betula should hang onto it, it will be worth more than the DAC before we know it :D
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 6:36 AM Post #308 of 478
Soekris 2541 R2R DAC vs. RME ADI-2 FS (AKM4493 version)

First impressions:

This write up is not a review or a proper comparison, just a selection of random personal notes and subjective impressions.

In a nutshell, I wish it was possible to combine some of the characteristics of the two DACs. Just for the record, I made this comparison with an external amp, with my Burson Soloist 3XP in power amp mode in this case. The internal amps of these DACs are not bad but also not great. Perhaps the Soekris internal amp is a little better than the RME's, but nothing to write home about. Versus the 3XP the internal amps just sound a bit closed in and congested with a loss of headspace, resolution and refinement. I would say the amp section on the 2541 performs somewhere in the $300-400 range, when it comes to standalone external amps.

Here I will evaluate the DAC sections only. Cutting straight to the chase, overall the Soekris 2541 produces the better sound, but not without compromises. The 2541 sounds a lot more lifelike, alive and real. It is also warmer and softer, but not overly warm or overly soft. Soren's DAC has without a question a more pleasing sound, especially when it comes to acoustic instruments or vocals. Vocals are a lot richer in tonality and sound more lifelike, more organic.

The ADI-2 in comparison has the technical edge when it comes to clarity, resolution and dynamics. This is the most obvious in bass reproduction, especially with modern or electronic music. Bass on the RME is just more defined, clearer with bigger impact, better dynamics and focus. Dynamics (especially macro) on the RME are overall better. The real issue on the German DAC is with tonality and then mids and treble compared to the Soekris R2R. The RME just sounds a bit dead and boring in comparison. Like a cold, lifeless recording. Sure, the clarity and that bass impact are attractive and entertaining, but the rest of the sound is just dry and lacks soul. This is true for D/S DACs in general, not unique to RME. RME is actually a hint warmer and smoother than many delta/sigma DACs. Still, versus the Soekris R2R these differences are very apparent.

To me personally, bass rendering is one of the top priorities, as a good portion of my music is modern EDM (ambient). So to me this compromise on the Soekris is a little bit painful. At the same time, I find it nearly impossible to go back to RME (or any delta/sigma for that matter) after the Soekris due to its richer, more lifelike and more pleasing tonality.

Soundstage on the RME is wider, but on the Soekris it is a little deeper and instruments are better positioned in a 3D space. Not by an awful lot as I was expecting it, but still better.

I guess the journey never ends, but this DAC is a pleasant stop. My aim is probably to rebuy a Chord TT2, but I was hoping I can get away with something more affordable. It seems I prefer R2R tone to D/S by a big margin, but I miss a bit of resolution, bass clarity and bass impact. I see, Audio GD products (R28) are getting some love, even in this thread. Would the R28 be a better match for my personal taste? R2R sound with slightly clearer and more impactful bass?

I am happy to experiment further as buying and selling is part of the hobby for me, but I start to think I should probably just save up and get the TT2 as I personally found that unit the most satisfying so far, but it is hard to justify the cost even second-hand.

In the meantime I think I will probably keep the Soekris and sell the RME, despite the softer and less impactful bass. The other advantages, like a richer sound, are simply too good to let go.

Objectively the RME and the 2541 are both good DACs but do things differently. Ultimately the choice should be based on personal sonic priorities and musical taste: clarity & impact but a less engaging and less lifelike sound versus a soulful and musically engaging sound but with a softer and slightly less technical presentation. Tough choice, as they emphasise different treats.

IMG_20220622_101322.jpg
I quite like the slightly retro look of the dac2541.

Further impressions after some more listening as I got used to the Soekris sound even more:

Sound reproduction versus (live) music listening.
Studio clarity/sterility versus live performance.
Details are actually on a very similar level, just the RME is slightly more open and brighter in the treble which contributes to the perception of higher resolution. As well as the speedier (PRaT), more precise sound of the D/S DAC.
RME definitely comes across as colder, Soekris definitely feels richer and more organic. With acoustic music it is not even a contest. With studio produced electronic music the RME has the edge because of the added dynamics and punch but the Soekris actually does a decent and enjoyable job as well, just in a little softer way. To be clear, the difference is not in bass quantity or body, it is about focus and impact.

Orchestral or live performance acoustic music brings you a lot closer to the real experience with the Soekris. Also, electronic music with real sounds and samples in it (Amon Tobin for example) actually sounds better on the Soekris. It elevates the experience. The RME's advantage really is only with hardcore electronic stuff like Boris Brejcha. I also have to mention that RME is a studio audio company, just audiophiles picked up their ADI-2 due to its clear sound, versatility and compact form factor. RME is not a personal boutique home audio company like most companies we usually buy from.

Even though on some of my tracks I will miss the bass from the ADI-2, the vast majority of my music is more engaging, more enjoyable on the 2541. My only complaint about the 2541 really is that the low end could be a little more impactful. The rest is pretty delicious. I am enjoying it quite a lot actually. :)

To wrap up, let me leave a few notes here for folks who say all DACs sound the same:

I recently talked to a person, who told me, to his ears all good quality headphones above $200 sound the same. Then we have a group of audio enthusiasts who say it is absolutely pointless to spend more than $500 on a headphone amplifier as all they do is make the audio signal stronger/louder. So effectively they say every good amplifier above $500 sounds the same.
Then you have the group of people who say all DACs sound the same. Then people who say audio cables make a difference but not USB cables. Or not everyone can hear the difference between DAC filters and so on...

It is true that headphones make the biggest difference, then amps, then DACs and then cables. One should keep these priorities in mind. At the same time saying "there is no difference in sound between this and that because I can't hear it" is simply silly. It is like saying "it is impossible to run 100m quicker than 18 seconds, because I can't run it quicker". Well, hearing abilities differ as well.
And please do not start a cable debate. :)
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 7:11 AM Post #309 of 478
Interesting writeup, I can only compare Soekris 1421 with Topping D50 and the Soekris cut away that sabre treble glare, and some bass boost that Topping's OPA opamps were bringing to the table. To my ears it's perfectly linear, at the time I thought it was warmer but now I think the Topping was bright with bass boost.
However as you mentioned the other technicalities like dynamics and staging / imaging aren't as good as the TOTL gear out there.
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 7:45 AM Post #310 of 478
If you like the R2R sound but want more resolution and slam (and if you have the space, they're huge) consider the Audio-gd R8 mk2 or R7 mk2 depending on budget.

This is the most lifelike DAC I have heard. I have one in my 2 channel rig and if I had the desk space in my headstation. I'd buy another one.
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 8:04 AM Post #311 of 478
If you like the R2R sound but want more resolution and slam (and if you have the space, they're huge) consider the Audio-gd R8 mk2 or R7 mk2 depending on budget.

This is the most lifelike DAC I have heard. I have one in my 2 channel rig and if I had the desk space in my headstation. I'd buy another one.
Budget could be enough for the R7 if I really liked the sound, but that is just a real monster when it comes to size and weight. 15kg? Really? :)
The R8 size could possibly work for me, but even that is borderline for desktop use...
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 8:19 AM Post #312 of 478
Budget could be enough for the R7 if I really liked the sound, but that is just a real monster when it comes to size and weight. 15kg? Really? :)
The R8 size could possibly work for me, but even that is borderline for desktop use...
Yep, they're worth every cent. Check the pics on the audio-gd website, they're built like tanks. But they're not desktop gear, that's for sure. Ignore the fact the website looks like a scam LOL. I have bought direct from Kingwa the owner, and also from Magna Hifi in Netherlands.

I have 5 pieces of Audio-gd gear, it's my favorite brand.
 
Jun 22, 2022 at 9:48 AM Post #313 of 478
Budget could be enough for the R7 if I really liked the sound, but that is just a real monster when it comes to size and weight. 15kg? Really? :)
The R8 size could possibly work for me, but even that is borderline for desktop use...
I would also suggest R-8Mk2. Reserve money for DI-20HE, it will be a valuable add-on to any system... It open a system for further improvements. Link these devices with an external clock. You will never stop. Not joking, just smiling. :)
 

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