[Scopip]

I don't know about what you guys think.

But the math portion is only 33% of the SAT now. Verbal is only 33% Yet Writing came out from no where to be 33%.

Honestly, I view this a direct attack at the ESL (english as a second language) population. Mainly @ asians.

It also has an adverse impact on those students that actually think.

The test takes out quantitative reasoning and analogies. The only remaining section of the test that requires thinking is Reading comprehension.

Writing could be used to measure intelligence. But the SAT mainly uses to measure mastery of grammar.

---
fyi: i have a strong bias against this new format. In the late 90's, I passed all my AP exams including US and European history (which are very essay intensive). I did very well in analogies and reading comprehension. Yet I recieved extremely low scores on my SAT II wriiting. (Main reason being, SAT tests writing in such a way that it requires no thinking. Just memorization of "proper" grammar.

 

[ADS]

I think it's a great thing. Judging by some of the writing I've seen, much more emphasis needs to be placed on grammar and general writing skills. Math is much more memorization intensive than grammar, at least the kind on the SAT. I'm a dual english and computer engineering major, and high level writing takes much more thinking than most of my high level engineering classes.

 

[patman657]

If you are living in America, you need to know how to write adequately in English. If you are a foreign college-bound student, the reality of the situation is that you need to have a pretty good grasp of the English language. Your classes will be in English, your exams will be in English, and if you are going to stay in America after you graduate, your job will require a comprehensive knowledge of English. If I went to Japan for school, I would have to know Japanese well, and the same goes for any other country.

What bugs me is that even though standardized tests are not a good measure of intelligence, colleges still weight them heavily in the admission process. I think the general standardized tests should be phased out and replaced with subject tests, which will require passable English to get through, but will mostly be a measure of what you have learned in school.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Writing is perhaps the biggest key to college success IMO, as it impacts you in almost every class (even a lot of science classes aren't all multiple choice). It makes sense for colleges to more easily judge the writing abilities of their potential students. FWIW the test now reflects the old adage "reading, writing, & arithmetic." People can still test more individual subjects pertinent to their particular major with the SAT II's, including sciences and foreign languages. If I had a complaint about SAT math, it would be that it only reflects classes up to about Algebra II and does not allow more advanced students to show their advantages. Some say that's what the SAT II math is for though.

 

[KR...]

It looks like a great change that should have been made long ago. In the US English is the main language, in order to go to college here you need to be sufficient in English. This would not be any different in any other country and their main language.

 

[GuineaMcPig]

How is this change an attack on Asians? Is it somehow destructive for foreign sutdents to have to attain a higher level of mastery of a language that they will likely have to speak for the next 4-6 years? Will it hurt them in the long run to be able to read and write in a language that has become a useful tool in international business?

Maybe in 50 years there will be Chinese reading comprehension/writing sections on the SAT

 

[jerb]

i think the emphasis on english is a good thing, for instance, i need to speak spanish just to get a donut and a latte from duncan donuts. this needs to change (im talking about the U.S here) ohter than that from a students point of view i thnk ita bad. history and english are bs, its taking useless information and opinions and writting a page and a half of BS. math requires actual thinking.

there ya go my opinion as a citizen and as a student (who has to take em next year)

 

[Tim D]

I am pretty sure there will be plenty of asians that will ace the writing test regardless of ESL depending on experience. Now if someone has only 3 years experience with English then I'm pretty sure they would not do as well, but I would be boggled as to why there would be a reason they would be able to ace the verbal and just do poorly on writing? Any test that better differentiates between the selection pool is a good thing...its the same thing for interviewing. Why would you ask questions that fails to gather different responses?

My only issue with it is I have always disliked handwritten tests because my penmanship is worse than a 3rd graders. Of course I've always managed to do fine regardless which must show some form of restraint on the graders part but I can't help but wonder what sort of bias seeps in during the frustration of reading my dribble. But all the APs I remember were handwritten so *shrug*.

ESL students have a simple time testing out of college level language courses as well.

 

[zbuddah]

I agree with ADS and the rest. I think this is a great change! English needs to take a greater presence even in college. I know a few who are absolute math wizards getting +100% in math based classes but can barely write a decent paragraph.

Really its pretty sad, I welcome this change in the SAT. What good are you if you can only communicate with numbers. 1337>?? naw...

And seriously I don't see how this is an attack to ESL students, grow up people.

Don't hate just study harder.

Edit: I'm asain with an ESL family, so don't think I don't understand.

 

[Bunnyears]

Please correct me, but I was under the impression that foreign language speaking students did not take the SAT, but instead took the TOEFL.

In any event, after seeing the wretched level of written work from so many college students, I think that this change is extremely welcome. Once again, the art of written expression will be taught in the classroom along with the way to answer multiple choice tests. Writing is so very important, not just for writing term-papers, essays and exam questions, but also for the niceties of life: the thank you note, the letter of condolence, etc. Later in life, most of you will need to know how to construct and write a good memorandum as well. Nowadays true writing has become a dying art, and hopefully, this change in the exam may at least slow the pace of the decline of this very important skill.

 

[chadbang]

I think it's an excellent addition and, though you express an preference for math, the writing section is actually worth 1/9 of the exam, not 1/3.


Yes, math makes you think - in numbers.
Writing makes you think - in words.

Which is more important? Up to the individual, I guess. I'll take words, anyday.

And for those who advocate non-standardized testing. Just to remind you, before the SAT if you wanted to go to Princeton or Brown, or UCLA, you had to travel to EACH SCHOOL and take their test. You want to add the expense of travelling to and taking a test at EACH of the schools you're applying to? I don't think so.

 

[stet]

more or less seriously, this brings to mind Vice Magazine's writing awards for NYC public school students.

http://www.viceland.com/issues/v11n8...s/the_best.php

(there's not one asian surname in there, but maybe the new sat is a direct attack on them too

)

 

[KR...]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim D My only issue with it is I have always disliked handwritten tests because my penmanship is worse than a 3rd graders. Of course I've always managed to do fine regardless which must show some form of restraint on the graders part but I can't help but wonder what sort of bias seeps in during the frustration of reading my dribble. But all the APs I remember were handwritten so *shrug*.

Most doctors have horrible penmanship; it has nothing to do with how intelligent they are. With so many people typing rather than hand writing papers, books, e-mail, bogs, message boards, etc. Most people now have terrible penmanship. Before the invention of typewriter and the PC, most people, even poorly educated people had near perfect and downright gorgeous penmanship.

 

[The_Mac]

It doesn't matter how smart you are, how many brilliant ideas you have, or what kind of genius inferences you make about some facet of science, if you cannot express yourself clearly and communicate your idea, it's worthless. An idea that nobody knows about because it can't be worded isn't useful, it's a shame.

I'd much prefer to have three people of average skill working under me that all communicated with each other, myself, and the customer superbly; as opposed to three people that were top in the field, but could not work together, and failed at communicating with me or the client.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadbang Yes, math makes you think - in numbers. Writing makes you think - in words. Which is more important? Up to the individual, I guess. I'll take words, anyday.

Gotta agree with you 100%.