Smyth Research Realiser A16
Jun 10, 2022 at 2:15 PM Post #13,576 of 15,951
I have been in the pre-order queue for... err, now I can almost say "forever," and not feel that I am exaggerating too much. Indeed for the past three years or so, I have mostly lived in complete forgetfulness of my A-16 pre-order adventure. Lately, I have been wondering about a couple of options : either pay the difference and get my A16 now, or sell my position in the queue to someone else who is willing to move on it. What is the better option?

I used to have big dreams, fantasies, and plans about all I could do with the A-16, but that was more than four years ago, and after the looooong wait and holding pattern which most people in this forum are familiar with, and a dizzying number of disappointments from the Smyths, I am not sure maintaining my interest in this technology is even worth it anymore. What I am sure about is that the wait-and-hold pattern has become the very definition of ridiculous, and must end, one way or the other.

Any helpful thoughts?
As others have said, this depends on your priorities. I love watching movies in Atmos/DTS, and I have no possibility of installing that kind of speaker system in my home. So, for me, paying the full list price for the A16 was still a bargain, especially since I've already invested in a good headphone system. Even if I hadn't, outfitting a 24-channel speaker-based Atmos system would cost WAY more than the A16 plus my headphones and related equipment, assuming roughly comparable sound quality. (Heck, just the room treatments you would need would probably cost more than the A16.) That's why I paid full price and got my A16 in about a week. YMMV.
 
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Jun 10, 2022 at 2:34 PM Post #13,577 of 15,951
Can I borrow someone else's iPhone, will I be able to get an HRTF made on their iPhone 1 time and will it be linked to my account on the ATV4k? or would I need to have an iPhone present with me when I watch movies? Not sure how this works.

I doubt that Apple would make that possible, mostly because 'ease of use' is the prime directive, and the easiest thing for someone like myself, fully invested in their ecosystem, is to whip out my iPhone (or iPad with faceID) and scan myself and the HRTF instantly is in my AppleID profile for all my devices.

So a scan of someone else and transfer to some other AppleID is a lot of complex workflow and UI.

The easiest path you have is to buy a used iPad of any size, as long as it has a truedepth faceID scanner, associate it with the same AppleID as the ATV4K, and use that. Plus, if you keep it near the ATV4K, you can use it to 'type' whenever prompted by the ATV; it's truly magical when that happens on my iPhone. Plus you can use the Remote app (in the control panel) to drive the ATV as well. If you then never use the iPad, then sell it.
 
Jun 10, 2022 at 2:42 PM Post #13,578 of 15,951
I have been in the pre-order queue for... err, now I can almost say "forever," and not feel that I am exaggerating too much. Indeed for the past three years or so, I have mostly lived in complete forgetfulness of my A-16 pre-order adventure. Lately, I have been wondering about a couple of options : either pay the difference and get my A16 now, or sell my position in the queue to someone else who is willing to move on it. What is the better option?

I used to have big dreams, fantasies, and plans about all I could do with the A-16, but that was more than four years ago, and after the looooong wait and holding pattern which most people in this forum are familiar with, and a dizzying number of disappointments from the Smyths, I am not sure maintaining my interest in this technology is even worth it anymore. What I am sure about is that the wait-and-hold pattern has become the very definition of ridiculous, and must end, one way or the other.

Any helpful thoughts?
If you can afford to pay the difference and go to John for a custom in house PRIR, you will have an absolutely spectacular experience. BTW, if you can do that I would recommend you also ask then to do a pro edition that output AES/EBU so it can double as an ATMOS AVR with multichannel DACS of your own choosing.
 
Jun 10, 2022 at 5:29 PM Post #13,580 of 15,951
If you can afford to pay the difference and go to John for a custom in house PRIR, you will l have an absolutely spectacular experience. BTW, if you can do that I would recommend you also ask then to do a pro edition that output AES/EBU so it can double as an ATMOS AVR with multichannel DACS of your own choosing.
Thanks for this. Could you explain the "pro edition" that can double as an Atmos AVR a little more, since I am not familiar with the concept? Thanks.

PS : Is this "Pro Edition" the same as the "Speaker Edition" that is being discussed in this other Head-fi thread? :

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/smyth-research-realiser-a16-speaker-edition.960912/
 
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Jun 10, 2022 at 10:33 PM Post #13,581 of 15,951
PS : Is this "Pro Edition" the same as the "Speaker Edition" that is being discussed in this other Head-fi thread?
No, that is again another version that supposedly can simulate 24 channels over a stereo speaker pair instead of over headphones.

AES/EBU is a balanced pro variant of stereo SPDIF. @phoenixdogfan is talking about a version of the A16 that has 8 of these stereo AES/EBU digital outputs instead of 8 analog stereo 3.5 mm jack outputs to output up to 16 decoded audio channels. But this version is a lot more expensive I think, and only useful if you plan to use a real - and high quality - multichannel speaker system, and you will need additional equipment with digital inputs. And ideally some additional DSP to perform functions like delay and room correction.
 
Jun 10, 2022 at 10:39 PM Post #13,582 of 15,951
No, that is again another version that supposedly can simulate 24 channels over a stereo speaker pair instead of over headphones.

AES/EBU is a balanced pro variant of stereo SPDIF. @phoenixdogfan is talking about a version of the A16 that has 8 of these stereo AES/EBU digital outputs instead of 8 analog stereo 3.5 mm jack outputs to output up to 16 decoded audio channels. But this version is a lot more expensive I think, and only useful if you plan to use a real - and high quality - multichannel speaker system, and you will need additional equipment with digital inputs. And ideally some additional DSP to perform functions like delay and room correction.
The AES unit itself is not that much more expensive. IIRC when I got mine it was $4500 whereas the regular unit was around $4200. But it is true that you cannot connect it to speakers directly so there can be a lot of additional cost from other components.
 
Jun 10, 2022 at 10:45 PM Post #13,583 of 15,951
Do you guys have a link to this particular "Pro edition" or its manual? I do have more than one elaborate speaker (and headphone) system with separate prepros and DACs so it is possible I can fit the pro version right into one of them without a lot of additional acquisitions.
 
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Jun 10, 2022 at 11:09 PM Post #13,584 of 15,951
Do you guys have a link to this particular "Pro edition" or its manual?
I only found a mention on the German for-tune website (with high prices):
https://for-tune.de/produkt/smyth-research-a162u-realiser/#1583087936153-d16fbe11-2e6a

I see they mention D-sub connectors for the AES/EBU outputs.
("Als A16AES: 16-kanal Digitalversion im AES Format mit Sample Rate Konvertierung verteilt auf 2 x D-Sub Buchsen im Tacam Pin Layout.")

I also wonder what this version is exactly:
"Als A16USB: 16-kanal Digitalversion mit erweiterter USB Schnittstelle." ("... extended USB connection")
If it means that also 16 channels can be output via USB that would be interesting, then a pc could be used to do additional DSP. Unfortunately the price is again a lot higher even than the AES edition.

By the way: 2 of these would be nice with the AES version I guess:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88d
 
Jun 10, 2022 at 11:14 PM Post #13,585 of 15,951
You just go to the smyth website, press the Buy link and you will see all product variations. The PRO-AES version is being talked about currently but there is also a PRO-Dante version (though that may be more like $6700 IIRC). I don't think the PRO-ANALOG makes much sense over the standard edition.
 
Jun 11, 2022 at 12:15 PM Post #13,586 of 15,951
The AES unit itself is not that much more expensive. IIRC when I got mine it was $4500 whereas the regular unit was around $4200. But it is true that you cannot connect it to speakers directly so there can be a lot of additional cost from other components.
The whole entire point is you bypass the DACs in the A16 which may not be all that good. There are any number of multichannel DACS from Octo, Lynx, Motu, among others that offer truly superior DACS and they're not all that expensive. If you've invested in very good speakers for your home theater, and don't want to go the Trinov route, this may be the way to go. If you read ASR at all, just look at Amir's reviews of those multi channel home theater processors. Almost without exception, aside from performing their core DSP functions, they are the very worst performers in terms of their amplifiers and DACS. So, if I had it to do all over again, I would spend a few dollars more and order a pro unit. At some point they will be adding PEQ, and possible Dirac, and at that point anyone with a pro unit would have something highly functional for a reasonbable price as these things go.
 
Jun 11, 2022 at 6:22 PM Post #13,589 of 15,951
While waiting for the Auro 3D upgrade this happened.
https://www.kiratas.com/2022/06/10/3d-sound-specialist-auro-technologies-is-insolvent/
What will happen now?
There's bankruptcy chapter 7(liquidation) and chapter 11(reorganization). Auro 3D's filing is for reorganization. Chapter 13, by the way, is for individuals, not companies.

Aside from that, the major issue (as I see it) is whether Auro-matic upmixing continues to be supported. Although there's little Auro 3D content out in the marketplace, upmixing is where most of the value is, IMHO.
 
Jun 11, 2022 at 6:27 PM Post #13,590 of 15,951
some media could benefit from a upmix to Auro 3D ??

I was considering Auro 3D just for the Dolby 5.1 upmixer. The company is still in business and the A16's are existing hardware, so it's no skin off Auro to go ahead and license the software for A16s. On the other hand, licenses for (maybe) a few dozen A16s aren't going to save the company.

It would be a shame if Smythe took another hit for the time spent developing Auro if they weren't able to license it.
But customers still may not buy it if it's dead-end technology like HD-DVD.
 

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