[esimms86]

If they would just communicate only a tiny little bit with us...
We're doing the field testing at the moment and that's ok with me if we get the feeling that we participate a little bit in the development process.

Back in 2017 when I talked to Mike on the High End show and wrote him an e-mail afterwards (in those times when they still answered to mails...) he wrote me back that it's always good to hear from the users and that we probably understand the problems better than they do.

I really don't know what happened.

No updates in KS either, even if promised.

So we can again start to speculate, e.g. they had only about 50 units completed; no more money left for the rest, they go belly up in the next months... etc.

I totally get your point, however, your speculation(even as an “e.g.” or “for example “) is not helpful for those of us still waiting for our units. We all know that the Smyths are poor communicators but excellent programmers. Right now, it appears to me that they are focused on what they know how to do well, that is, rewrite firmware code. It’s too bad that Heavenly Sound isn’t interested in picking up the communications role.

Incidentally, I emailed them a couple of weeks ago about making the CanJam, etc., PRIRs available to those of who travelled out of our way and were fortunate enough to have PRIRs made. So far, I’ve received no response from Smyth Research.

 

[Richter Di]

I totally get your point, however, your speculation(even as an “e.g.” or “for example “) is not helpful for those of us still waiting for our units. We all know that the Smyths are poor communicators but excellent programmers. Right now, it appears to me that they are focused on what they know how to do well, that is, rewrite firmware code. It’s too bad that Heavenly Sound isn’t interested in picking up the communications role.

Incidentally, I emailed them a couple of weeks ago about making the CanJam, etc., PRIRs available to those of who travelled out of our way and were fortunate enough to have PRIRs made. So far, I’ve received no response from Smyth Research.

I really hope they will send them with the A16. The trip to Paris to get my measurement done was approx 300 EUR for the car ride plus 100 EUR for the hotel plus something like 20 EUR for the ticket. So 420 EUR for nothing!?

 

[Juy777]

I can understand the frustration of a lot of users. Public relations definetly does not seem to be the strong suit of Smyth Research, as well as the marketing aspect.

Here are some wild guesses from me, pure speculation, what the reasons for this behaviour MIGHT be.

If they would care of business things would be quite different. Different as in Smyth Research developing a Prototype, and then selling the license for the A16 to Denon, Yamaha, AKG you name it, cashing in maybe 2 million dollars.
Of course KS backers would have gotten their units, but branded under a different name.The easy way out.

It somehow reminds me of myself, i am good at the job i am doing but i cant sell/present myself to companies properly . You focus on the job you are doing, and you dont care so much about the other aspects.

I think the Smyth brothers might be individualists, swimming against the mainstream current, focusing on their brilliant idea. And mistakes still happen, no matter how good you are.

I imagine them being totally flooded with work, after a period of financial instability and doubt (until they partnered up with heavenly sound), underestimating the full scope of the much more elaborate A16 unit compared to the A8.

Then they had to get that Dolby License. Of course Dolby tried to find stuff to delay the license. They have their own "Dolby Atmos for Headphones" thing going, they sell a app in the windows store for $30 i think.
(their demo content is horrible so far, dont bother, especially the earkilling snowboard movie trailer)

3 people will use up all the kickstarter money only for living, paying rent, buying food during those years. Not for parts. I am amazed how they managed that, i guess they sunk in a lot of their own money. Even if 2 out of the 3 only worked halftime for Smyth Research.

On the bright side of things, Smyth Research did react to some of our most urgent issue, namely the "BUZZ". And they seem to have reacted to some of our mails and worked on the CD stutter issue. They will come up with something more elegant in the future,
but now they have to use quick gap measures to kill the worst bugs, wading in dozens of kartons of soon-to-be shipped A16 units. One guy might be assembling the units, the other tests the finished units, and the third coding the fixes into the firmware.
I assume 12 hours a day.

I even got a personal reply of Stephen Smyth which i posted here concerning some bugfixes. I know another user in here which also reported hearing back from Smyth Research repeatedly reporting stuff in the last weeks.

Of course they could have been responding to each and all of our emails personally. But then we wouldnt even have a single prototype shipped to us so far, because they have to set priorities.

I further doubt anything will go "belly up", they flushed in more cash with heavenly sound, and they have working prototype units which still could be licensed to some big company for some serious money. The units would then be
further developed by a team of 30 guys at "Sennheiser", targeting the Pro Audio segment, potentially ditching the consumers. Those people would then maybe continue support for our prototypes.

To summarize my view of things, at least the most crucial and annoying bugs of our A16 have been killed so far, very quickly. I dont think they will have any time for feature requests, GUI stuff etc until they have shipped out
the units for all the KS backers and the preorders.I dont expect any online PRIR exchange features in the near future.

And i cant blame them, personally.You can only do so much.

So lets hold fast, and be patient. Let them do their thing, but still write the occasional mail with the most urgent problems, in hopes they might find the time to read it.

There is not much more we can do really. My 2 cents

 

[dsperber]

I've now installed 1.70. I apologize for my misinterpretion (if that was really true) of the meaning of this new auto-mute feature. I just assumed it was over and above (i.e. in addition to) the current minimal (say .5 sec) mute, which was the result of the 1.60 change that reduced the previous 10-second mute. But if it was actually a total replacement for that .5 sec mute, and now variable from as little as 50ms up to a maximum of 1000ms, then I defer.

Anyway, I've now tried this out using CD/PCM via HDMI input. At first I was using my UDP-203 (set to BITSTREAM, but the A16 shows it's receiving PCM 2.0). Interestingly, the room still shows as Atmos. When I had no change at all from 1.60 and trying the full range of auto-mute timings provided, I then repeated the test using my BDP-103 (set to LPCM, and again the A16 shows it's receiving PCM 2.0 but this time the room changes to PCM). Same result as before, namely no effect on the stutter.

Actually as I recall I think the initial auto-mute timing value right after the firmware update actually appeared as 0ms. I had to push ADJ + to get it up to 50ms, 100ms, etc. But now I cannot get back to 0ms, so maybe the initial 0ms was simply a one-time null situation fresh after the new firmware went in. In any case, if you are at 50ms and you do another ADJ - it wraps around back to 1000ms. So if 0ms was intentional, and meant to imply "turn this feature off completely", it doesn't seem to be selectable.

Regardless, for me I say that no matter what this auto-mute period is set at there is ZERO effect of whatever this function is supposed to provide relating to the stutter/hiccup artifact when a CD track starts (or right after a navigate/FF/REW when the sound returns after its brief navigational pause). I initially tried 50 ms, but saw no effect. Audio artifact still there. I then gradually increased it all the way up through available values, even as high as 900ms. All had ZERO effect. Exactly the same "stutter" audio anomaly regarding the start of a CD track or return of sound after a navigation/FF/REW is still present, at least when feeding CD/PCM via HDMI.


At least I did learn one thing about the A16 user-interface and the BACK button. Turns out BACK will return you to whatever screen was previously displayed. And PA will get the current preset speaker map displayed. The new auto-mute setting is reached through a series of screens and cursor navigations: HOME -> navigate down to SETTINGS -> navigate down to SYSTEM -> navigate down to VOLUME SETTINGS -> navigate down and then right-cursor over to AUTO-MUTE. I then used ADJ + to increase the auto-mute interval.

I then pushed PA, and was returned to my preset 01 speaker map display. I could then run my test of current auto-mute interval value. To try a different interval value, all I now had to do was push BACK and was returned to the last screen which was displayed, i.e. the VOLUME SETTINGS screen where several lines down where the AUTO-MUTE item lived that line was even still pre-selected. Unfortunately it was now the left TRI-VOL item on that line which was now pre-selected, so I had to right-cursor over to AUTO-MUTE. Minor nuisance. Would have been nice if the previously selected AUTO-MUTE item was still selected from BACK, but not to be.

Anyway, at least you can bounce back and forth between the preset speaker map display with PA, and whatever other non-graphic configuration screen your working on with BACK. That definitely saves time.


One final comment. I decided to give the Atmos demos trailers from the sites nicely posted on the other thread a go-see. So I downloaded a number of them (totaling about 5GB), placed them on a USB drive, and inserted the USB drive into my Oppo UDP-203. I also placed a microSD card in the A16, so that I could do a screen capture (in audio meters mode) to prove that the A16 understood what was going on.

Everything worked well, except that the MKV files I downloaded from The Digital Theater site all use an MLP (Meridian Lossless Packing) method for lossless compression of PCM audio data, typically used for DVD-Audio so I read. It presents no problem for the Oppo but results in no sound out of the A16 being fed BITSTREAM from the 203. All the other demo files are MP4 and M2TS, both of which contained proper usable audio when bitstreamed to the A16 so they produced proper sound.

I also was able to test the BMP screenshot function, to see just how fast it would react and capture a screen while the A16 is simultaneously actually working, e.g. handling the 9.1.6 Dolby Atmos audio from one of these demo trailers. Turns out it responded essentially instantly once the # key was pressed. Of course it still took 5-7 seconds to write the BMP file to the SD card (while the audio meter screen remained frozen throughout the 5-7 seconds), but everything returned to normal after that. Of course I did have to push the ALL button (as I've previously mentioned), because while the BMP screenshot function of the # key is now active, so also is the underlying speaker solo function of the # key which is performed second, immediately after the BMP screenshot write completes. And since I don't have a speaker assigned to that # key the speaker solo of nothing produces no audio. So you have to push ALL to return things to normal again.

Nevertheless, it all works nicely. Here is the BMP screenshot of one instant in one of the Dolby Atmos trailers, driving all 16 speakers:

Most importantly of course, through this 9.1.6 PRIR (sum of BBC room for overhead and Lw/Rw speakers + AIX 7.1 for ear level speakers) I actually can hear all 16 of these speakers individually solo'd. And it really does sound to my brain that these speakers are all around me, and correctly located spatially by my brain and hearing system. Remarkable.

 

[audiohobbit]

I totally get your point, however, your speculation(even as an “e.g.” or “for example “) is not helpful for those of us still waiting for our units.

Yes, I'm sorry for being negative. I was for a long time optimistic regarding the A16, but I have serious doubts about the financial situation now and what really annoys me is this total lack of communication. A few lines on KS, a few words in an E-Mail, would be no big effort.

I really hope they will send them with the A16.

If they have them (and didn't mix them up) I think it's much easier for them to send those files via E-Mail or put them onto the Exchange website, whenever this will go online.
I already thought back then when they made that promise, that this sounds very dificult, keeping track of all those files, save them and put them onto every unit. I think they also underestimated this. Would have been much easier if everyone brought a micro SD card and they put the individual PRIR on it. But I can imagine that the prototype didn't have the SD card functionality at this time.

Smyth Research developing a Prototype, and then selling the license for the A16 to Denon, Yamaha, AKG you name it, cashing in maybe 2 million dollars.

they have working prototype units which still could be licensed to some big company for some serious money. The units would then be
further developed by a team of 30 guys at "Sennheiser"

I think this will never happen. The Realiser heavily relies on personal measurment with microphones in the ears and that is way too complicated for the average user.
They were offering licensing to companies for the A8 technology but no one was interested (of course I think that they'd need someone that can sell their idea to the companies...).


FW1.70:
I tried it yesterday, only with mp3s from the Oppo 103. For HDMI I thought it had an influence on the stutter at the beginning of the track or when skipping. With longer mute times I could mask this better. But have to test it more thoroughly and with CD of course also.
For SPDIF it seemed to make no difference. There is no stutter anyway and even with the 50 ms setting the beginning of each track is "swallowed". No gapless playing possible (Live recordings for example).
So it's not worse than with 1.60, more or less the same, maybe a bit better with HDMI.
I think the update was mainly for the buzzing problem.




Yesterday I tested User B. As I already said optical headtracking seems not working for user B. Even if the preset display says optical, at least at the moment it seems only to work for User A. Since you can not set the HT modes individually (I think) you have to set it to magnetic for both users. So I will try magnetic next.

I wanted to use User A for my Audeze LCD2 and User B for my in ears (cheap Hifiman RE 400, mainly for movies, especially 3D movies with glasses on).
But I ran into some problems.

First I tried to make a manLOUD HPEQ with the Surrey room for the in-ears. I chose L+R speakers of the Surrey room. Unfortunately that wasn't as successful as with the LCD 2. Only tried stereo so far: L and R solo works fine, but the phantom center is still in or near my head. I will try doing a manLOUD HPEQ again but using the center speaker from the Surrey PRIR. Let's see if this works better.
For the manLOUD procedure the bitmap-saving procedure with th #-key comes in really handy. Because when you save the manLOUD HPEQ you won't have any clue afterwards what EQ settings you made. It's a total black box. For my first manLOUD HPEQ I made screenshots with my smartphone of every EQ band. Now I did it using the #-key. Yes it takes longer, but the pictures are immediately on the SD card and you can transfer them to your PC (and they're not as big as smartphone pics). I encountered that the first or the first few BMPs took a little longer to capture, than the rest (32 pics, for every EQ band one...)
-> all this was not User B specific.

User B:
If you want to use the upmixer you have to go to a Preset of User A that includes the upmixer. Then the upmixer will also be there for User B.
Using a shaker: I use a so called I-Beam at the back of my chair. I don't use the Tactile outputs so far. I use the stereo headphone output and direct it to a DSP (Behringer DCX2496).
The reasons are: I want to have a lowpass with a higher cutoff frequency than the 120 Hz (?) possible with the A16 and I have to EQ the signal anyway to flatten resonances that the I-Beam itself has (strong 50 Hz peak normally) and resonances coming from the chair/couch that you mount it to. Without a PEQ proper set, a shaker is more or less useless I'd say.
The I-Beam is capable of higher frequencies as well (theoretically up to 20 kHz) and in a real sound you can feel bass up to around 150-200 Hz. Deep male voices or guitar strings for example at higher volumes. The I-Beam can reproduce this and it is very convincing, if set up properly.

Unfortunately the DCX2496 has only three inputs, so I can't connect stereo HP outputs of User A and User B simultaneously. So at the moment I would need to re-plug the two cinch cables to User B output, but that's not what I want.
I have the read the manual again if the Tactile outputs also deliver signal from User B and what volume control controls this. If you go to the audio meters, than there is only a tactile display for user A.
To be honest I didn't understand how the Tactile settings work, for example the 2 different volume settings. Look at the appendix where this is described. Totally complicated (unfortunately sometimes typical for the Smyths. Although many things with the A16 are made much easier than with the A8!)



And again my presets for User A remained silent!! This is totally annoying and a major bug, but seems to happen only to me so far?
It must have something to do with the combination of PRIR (Surrey), presets, and HPEQ, I suppose so far.

 

[audiohobbit]

(sum of BBC room for overhead and Lw/Rw speakers + AIX 7.1 for ear level speakers)

This brings up the question: How big is the headtracking range of such combined PRIRs?
I suppose only the +/-30 degrees of the A8 PRIR.

But what does the Realiser do if you have one PRIR with +/-30 and one with +/-45 (only 2 look angles, nothing at 30 or below) for example. Ok, then I suppose also only +/-30 will be the result.

 

[audiohobbit]

PS: As a workaround to be able to see the display from further away I will try using a fresnel lens magnifier in front of it. I have a glass door at the rack so I think I could mount this fresnel lens to that glass in front of it. Just have to find one that is at least OK. There seem to be many cheap products out there that deliver horrible quality.

 

[audiohobbit]

On german Hifi-Forum KS backer no. 62 just reported that he got his mail from James that his unit is ready for shipping!
And it seems that he now also asks specifically for order details.

 

[blubliss]

On german Hifi-Forum KS backer no. 62 just reported that he got his mail from James that his unit is ready for shipping!
And it seems that he now also asks specifically for order details.

That's good news since I'm #64, soon now.

 

[denniswaugh]

That's good news since I'm #64, soon now.

I'm #94, so fingers crossed I'll have it well before Christmas

 

[esimms86]

Yes, I'm sorry for being negative. I was for a long time optimistic regarding the A16, but I have serious doubts about the financial situation now and what really annoys me is this total lack of communication. A few lines on KS, a few words in an E-Mail, would be no big effort.

No worries. I fully agree with you about their lack of communication.

I fully expect Smyth Research to honor their Kickstarter and Pre-Order shipping obligations. I am also encouraged by their efforts to continue upgrading their firmware. I'm much less encouraged by the fact that they are a small and financially precarious operation run by a couple of retired brothers with little sense about how to run a business(nothing against retirees; I'm one myself. It's just that the Smyth brothers have already made their money so I expect them to be less motivated from a financial standpoint). I'm also somewhat discouraged by the fact that they no longer make replacement parts for the now ten year old A8. Let's all hope that our A16s never fail(yeah, I know).


[/QUOTE="Richter Di, post: 15220898, member: 5794"]]I really hope they will send them with the A16.[/QUOTE]

If they have them (and didn't mix them up) I think it's much easier for them to send those files via E-Mail or put them onto the Exchange website, whenever this will go online.I already thought back then when they made that promise, that this sounds very dificult, keeping track of all those files, save them and put them onto every unit. I think they also underestimated this. Would have been much easier if everyone brought a micro SD card and they put the individual PRIR on it. But I can imagine that the prototype didn't have the SD card functionality at this time.

I actually brought a USB drive with me to CanJam New York 2017. The Smyths, however, declined my request to put my PRIR on the drive.

 

[Rene Lou]

PS: As a workaround to be able to see the display from further away I will try using a fresnel lens magnifier in front of it. I have a glass door at the rack so I think I could mount this fresnel lens to that glass in front of it. Just have to find one that is at least OK. There seem to be many cheap products out there that deliver horrible quality.

Instead of a fresnel lens, you could use something like this as well: https://www.head-fi.org/posts/14236092/

What I also used (eg: for short time usage like making a new PRIR): Point an iPhone to the A8/A16 display and make a video call (facetime) to your iPad. Then take your iPad to your seating position and voilà, a nice real-time display just some inches away from where you are with the A8/A16 display easily readable

btw: I received an email from James yesterday as well asking for shipping details (#57)
Rene

 

[GeorgeA]

I’ve recently purchased two bluray audio: Herbert Von Karajan Beethoven: 9 Symphonies and Alessandro Quarta Plays Astor Piazzolla. Both blurays have Dolby Atmos versions and the second one has also an Auro 3D version.

The first bluray audio is a production remastered by Emil Berliner Studios and MSM Studios for Deutsche Grammophon. The second one was recorded and produced by Immersive Audio Network from Munich.

I’m writing this information for those A16 owners in Germany, who might want trying to record their PRIRs at one of these studios, provided that their fees are reasonable. At IAN website, they write that their studios are officially Dolby Atmos Home and Spatial Sound Wave (Planetarium Shows) certified.

https://www.ian.solutions/ian-solutions/solutions/

 

[Richter Di]

btw: I received an email from James yesterday as well asking for shipping details (#57)
Rene

Congratulations!

 

[audiohobbit]

Instead of a fresnel lens, you could use somet

Yes I thoght about a camera as well, but can't find one below 40 to 50 euros and where you can watch the stream via web browser.
For an interim solution (hopefully....) shouldn't be too expensive, but a camera would have its advantages of course.
I also have an older smartphone which I could use the camera from but I have no idea how to bring the stream online via wifi. And more importantly the non changeable battery has a lot of swelling so that the housing already broke, and I fear it might explode when plugging in to a charger (permanently).