[jagxjr15]

4-6 Weeks?

I actually thought you had a valid point, regardless of the spookiness of a few scenarios you conjured up. So don't attempt to take it all back now. Besides, there are some genies that can't be put back in the bottle once outed, and this seems to be one of those

I didn't "take anything back". I just wanted to let the few people who were somehow offended by my post that no offense should be taken by them, and also that they should grow up and not be so thin skinned.

 

[Richter Di]

@Sanctuary I figured out how to measure the way you’re talking about that worked on the A8. You pick your speakers for the first sweep, when presented with the enter to save or SPK to redo you hit the back button. You can then select different speakers to measure that what you just did. When you get back to the screen where it plays the sweeps it will have a little white outline around the speakers you’ve already measured. This will allow you to measure up to 16 speakers individually and save them in a single PRIR. Glad you pointed this out because it’s going to make my file management much nicer when I redo my measurements tomorrow.

This sounds much more comfortable. Could you with this also do the trick to circle on a chair, using only one loudspeaker?

 

[illram]

This sounds much more comfortable. Could you with this also do the trick to circle on a chair, using only one loudspeaker?

This is what I'm wondering. A while back James said in an update there would be a specific method to do this with audio prompts on where to look, etc., but I don't see any of that in the manual.

 

[jagxjr15]

Is it possible to do measurements of an unequalized system with analog sweeps, and then for playback insert the equalization after the source but before the A16? By equalization I am broadly including frequency, time and delay compensation. If the equalization is done separately for each channel, then since these linear operations and filters should commute with the Smyth SVS linear filters in theory it should work, although their may be implementation issues. However, if the equalization is done jointly for multiple channels (such as Trinnov equalization with remapping), the situation seems less clear. Anyways, so long as one has channel-wise equalization before the A16, such as minidsp, audyssey, dirac , with blu-ray, AVR, PC, respectively, then one should obtain the same equalization as if digital sweeps were output over HDMI followed by equalization (not sure about dirac: does it do remapping?). This approach doesn't rely on any capability for PEQ in the A16 itself. Of course, the requirement to have the equalization in the loop affects portability and in particular the ability to share PRIR, unless one also shares an equalization filter, which may not be available or compatible. I wonder if anyone has tried this with the A8.

The Trinnov transforms are preserved under SVS transforms. I originally used a Sherwood R972 with Trinnov. My A8 was setup was (of course) done without Trinnov because the SVS calibration was only possible via the analog outputs of the A8 (the Trinnov transforms could only be applied if the multichannel input signal to the R972 were digital) The R972 didn't do ADC on the multichannel inputs. In playback, the R972 analog preamp outputs (with Trinnov applied) were routed into the analog inputs of the A8 (where the SVS transforms were applied) and the A8 analog outputs to the power amps, so that the A8 was between the R972 (Trinnov) preamp section and the power amps. I could not hear any difference (to the Trinnov) when the A8 was in the playback signal path. My sole reason for getting an A8 was to allow me to listen to my audio system without disturbing the neighbors: portability was not an issue with me.

With the R972, the Trinnov transforms could only be applied to all-of-the-speakers-in- a- room, i.e., to the whole system, because changing the output of one speaker could affect the Trinnov transform applied to the others. The SVS setup can be done one-speaker-at a-time, but , using the R972 the Trinnov could only be applied to all the speakers as a total system (with the room included also). But I think the Trinnov Altitude prepros may do ADC on analog inputs, which means the Trinnov transforms could be applied to the SVS caliibration signal outputs, which means one-speaker-at-a-time SVS setup may be possible with an Altitude prepro.

 

[CanMad]

I didn't "take anything back". I just wanted to let the few people who were somehow offended by my post that no offense should be taken by them, and also that they should grow up and not be so thin skinned.

Can you leave it please. I don't think being upset because it stirs up sadness/bad feelings etc of your terminally ill father is "thin skinned". Show some sensitivity to the poor guy. And keep the discussion on topic.

 

[jagxjr15]

Can you leave it please. I don't think being upset because it stirs up sadness/bad feelings etc of your terminally ill father is "thin skinned". Show some sensitivity to the poor guy. And keep the discussion on topic.

My post had nothing to do with anybody's terminally ill father.

 

[CanMad]

Its the perception of the receiver not the giver that matters.

 

[audiohobbit]

Is it possible to do measurements of an unequalized system with analog sweeps, and then for playback insert the equalization after the source but before the A16?

Yes, this is what I do with my AVR and the A8 at the moment. My AVR doesn't do room eq for the 8ch analog in, so I recorded the PRIR unequalised. Then I connected the 8ch analog out of the AVR to the A8 and can do the room EQ in the AVR. The A8 acts like a 8ch power amp with speakers, one can say.

BUT: This is not possible if you deliver bitstream via HDMI to the A16 and let it decode Atmos etc.! That's the problem. I don't have an Atmos capable AVR and didn't want to buy one...
With an Atmos AVR you had to connect lots of preouts (12 for 7.1.4) to the A16 analog, including som additonial AD-DA conversions etc. Ihoped that it was possible to avoid these with the A16.

 

[mrmac]

Ok after a couple of tinkering sessions and speed browsing the manual I have also started to get the gist of this. In my mind the interface is a bit convoluted and messy, but the end result is astonishing. Although I’ve had the thing crash and lock up on me a few times. I don’t know if this is down to me doing something wrong. It just locks up and all I can do is power cycle it. Also I can’t seem to get the HPEQ to work. I do the measurement but no chirps happen. @Got the Shakes have you experienced any of this?

The ability to mix speakers from different PRIRs is amazing. I have a simple 5.1 system with a good LCR but very simple surrounds. I just use my front with the BBC Atmos setups and it’s already very impressive. I find the front 3 speakers to be critical (especially the centre) for the illusion to work. But the preloaded rooms work very good for the rest of the channels, even the top speakers.

@Got the Shakes have you had any luck with bass management? I have tried direct mode but I didn’t hear any major improvement. I’m using audeze lcd 2 so bass would not be lacking. Maybe this is down to the HPEQ not working (or me not doing it) properly...

More tinkering awaits!

 

[innocentblood]

this may seem like a stupid question but please bear with me - do you always have to fix the headtracker on top your headphones whenever you are listening to the A16? does that ensure you're getting the full A16 experience? the manual describes 2 ways of using the headtracker - the method with the set-top seems cumbersome... what methods are the current A16 owners using?

 

[mrmac]

this may seem like a stupid question but please bear with me - do you always have to fix the headtracker on top your headphones whenever you are listening to the A16? does that ensure you're getting the full A16 experience? the manual describes 2 ways of using the headtracker - the method with the set-top seems cumbersome... what methods are the current A16 owners using?

Head tracking is optimal for sure. Pretty sure I won’t use it much on a day to day basis. It works incredibly well and for working and mixing with A16 it would be a must. But for watching a film in a comfy seat where you don’t move, it’s not needed in my opinion. The cable tangle and fiddlyness of it is tedious.

I’m excited to try the 360 degrees though. Must be pretty trippy.

 

[Evshrug]

Head tracking is optimal for sure. Pretty sure I won’t use it much on a day to day basis. It works incredibly well and for working and mixing with A16 it would be a must. But for watching a film in a comfy seat where you don’t move, it’s not needed in my opinion. The cable tangle and fiddlyness of it is tedious.

I’m excited to try the 180 degrees though. Must be pretty trippy.

With my Audeze Möbius, which has NX Waves surround and headtracking, I can turn to face completely away from the source (if 180° is the front hemisphere, I guess this would make the Möbius capable of 360° tracking). It’s cool, but really it’s just for realism if you’re someone like me that slouches in different positions while viewing a screen for extended time periods. Kinda fun while riding on a train or in a car though, hah!

KS Backer #32

 

[Got the Shakes]

This sounds much more comfortable. Could you with this also do the trick to circle on a chair, using only one loudspeaker?

You could yes. But you’d either need a second person to help change which analog output you’re using, or get up from the chair and change it yourself. The reason for that is that each output is for two speakers. The 1-2 output is for the front left and right. If you select that your capturing rears that uses a different output (I believe the 5-6 one). It would be doable, but tedious.

This is what I'm wondering. A while back James said in an update there would be a specific method to do this with audio prompts on where to look, etc., but I don't see any of that in the manual.

I haven’t tried capturing a PRIR yet using head tracking, but there is very basic instructions when using the no head tracking method. Before it sends sweep a voice will tell you where to look. It’s basically “look straight ahead” and then after those sweeps play then “look left” which means turn your head 30° to the left, then it will prompt you to look right which is a 30° hear turn to the right of 0°.

Ok after a couple of tinkering sessions and speed browsing the manual I have also started to get the gist of this. In my mind the interface is a bit convoluted and messy, but the end result is astonishing. Although I’ve had the thing crash and lock up on me a few times. I don’t know if this is down to me doing something wrong. It just locks up and all I can do is power cycle it. Also I can’t seem to get the HPEQ to work. I do the measurement but no chirps happen. @Got the Shakes have you experienced any of this?

The ability to mix speakers from different PRIRs is amazing. I have a simple 5.1 system with a good LCR but very simple surrounds. I just use my front with the BBC Atmos setups and it’s already very impressive. I find the front 3 speakers to be critical (especially the centre) for the illusion to work. But the preloaded rooms work very good for the rest of the channels, even the top speakers.

@Got the Shakes have you had any luck with bass management? I have tried direct mode but I didn’t hear any major improvement. I’m using audeze lcd 2 so bass would not be lacking. Maybe this is down to the HPEQ not working (or me not doing it) properly...

More tinkering awaits!

I’ve been lucky I haven’t had any crashes. I did have it get stuck when playing content and not let me change presets, but a simple backing out to the setting menu and then back into the screen where you change presets fixed that.

Doing the HPEQ was actually one of the first things I figured out how to do with out the manual. If I remember all I had to do was put the mics in, hot either the HP button or go the the HPEQ app in the applications menu and then hit whatever button the screen said to to start the sweeps. I think all of that took like 30 seconds.

I haven’t messed with bass management at all. When I crudely captured my system I used my 5 captured speakers with the subwoofer from the BBC room and that actually sounded pretty good to me. Tonight and this weekend I should get some serious time to play with the A16 and try to get a much more precise capture the room I captured a few nights ago. I think I’m going to capture with head tracking not so much because I’ll use tracking often, but I should at least be able to get the looking left and right angles pretty close to where they should be.

 

[profsbg]

The Trinnov transforms are preserved under SVS transforms. I originally used a Sherwood R972 with Trinnov. My A8 was setup was (of course) done without Trinnov because the SVS calibration was only possible via the analog outputs of the A8 (the Trinnov transforms could only be applied if the multichannel input signal to the R972 were digital) The R972 didn't do ADC on the multichannel inputs. In playback, the R972 analog preamp outputs (with Trinnov applied) were routed into the analog inputs of the A8 (where the SVS transforms were applied) and the A8 analog outputs to the power amps, so that the A8 was between the R972 (Trinnov) preamp section and the power amps. I could not hear any difference (to the Trinnov) when the A8 was in the playback signal path. My sole reason for getting an A8 was to allow me to listen to my audio system without disturbing the neighbors: portability was not an issue with me.

With the R972, the Trinnov transforms could only be applied to all-of-the-speakers-in- a- room, i.e., to the whole system, because changing the output of one speaker could affect the Trinnov transform applied to the others. The SVS setup can be done one-speaker-at a-time, but , using the R972 the Trinnov could only be applied to all the speakers as a total system (with the room included also). But I think the Trinnov Altitude prepros may do ADC on analog inputs, which means the Trinnov transforms could be applied to the SVS caliibration signal outputs, which means one-speaker-at-a-time SVS setup may be possible with an Altitude prepro.

Well it is good to know the A8 and R972 with Trinnov worked properly. It seems that although Trinnov Altitude prepros may do ADC on multichannel analog inputs, it is infact correct to do the SVS calibration without Trinnov, and then route Trinnov to the A8 (or A16) analog inputs, like you were doing with the R972. Otherwise, an SVS sweep on a single channel would get mapped to multiple speaker channels and confuse the SVS calibration. For Trinnov without remapping, or for other channel-wise equalization schemes the order does not appear to matter.

Hence it appears that the A16 with analogy sweeps can be made to work with room equalization with some limitations. Most prepros (or AVRs used as prepros) do not output LDPCM so the analog inputs of the A16 would have to be used . But with bluray and minidsp, or pc and dirac,audiolense,acourate, etc., one could output LDPCM over HDMI (or possibly over USB) and avoid this limitation. Also, decoding would have to be done before the A16, which might entail an Atmos AVR, but this is not an issue for me. There is a problem with portability in that the AVR or minidsp would have to be in the loop, although a PC based system wouldn't require any additional hardware. However, to share room equalized systems, the PEQ setting or impulse response would have to be shared as well as the PRIR. Eliminating this restriction would be the main benefit of an updated A16 with digital sweeps. Anyways, it seems mostly workable, so I will go back to waiting for my A16 to arrive.

 

[jgazal]

I haven't received any question about the length of the head tracking cable. I recall them saying there would be different lengths.