[Fox1977]

As mentioned ... I’m 80 percent sure that they don’t have the cash for initial payments to Dolby.

Screw these stupid surround codecs. Ship it, add AmbiX (very optional) at a later point and be done with it! No professional needs any of these decoding capabilities.

Really running out of patience here; despite my sympathies for their efforts.

What is left without “these stupid surround codecs” ?? Stereo ? Many of those who backed the A16 did it precisely for this ability to emulate multichannel systems.
If it was stripped from this feature, I’d have no interest in it...
Heavenly Sound invested money in Smyth Research to help them achieve the project. Running short of money and abandoning it when it already got the Atmos certification would be an economical nonsense. Heavenly Sound aims st making profit, like any other company. I think they have projects to duplicate the A16 technology and the algorithm into cheaper devices or to license it and integrate it somehow in AV receivers for example.
But in order to do that, they have to achieve the A16 first that will be a technological showcase.

 

[Maestroso]

What is left without “these stupid surround codecs” ?? Stereo ? Many of those who backed the A16 did it precisely for this ability to emulate multichannel systems.
If it was stripped from this feature, I’d have no interest in it...
Heavenly Sound invested money in Smyth Research to help them achieve the project. Running short of money and abandoning it when it already got the Atmos certification would be an economical nonsense. Heavenly Sound aims st making profit, like any other company. I think they have projects to duplicate the A16 technology and the algorithm into cheaper devices or to license it and integrate it somehow in AV receivers for example.
But in order to do that, they have to achieve the A16 first that will be a technological showcase.

No professional device used in production comes with a decoder. In a DAW environment you feed raw PCM into an fx unit. For encoding purposes, we use units from the codecs’ respective developer. So much for that ... of course, for “audiophiles” plugging in an additional unit for the decoding part of the job (or using software for that matter) would be too complicated, apparently ... and approx. a 500 USD investment in addition to the 4000 USD for the A16. Of course, nobody could afford that ... .

So, there you have it - in that category you won’t be able to please two crowds at the same time. Another mistake in Smyth’s marketing nightmare.

As for Heavenly Sound: I presume you haven’t met their (=HS) staff in person yet (and yes, I have). They really couldn’t care less - and if their rhetorics lend any indication of what their hopes are for the A16 - then, well, we’d be all screw**. I mean, you’d probably want to explain what the device brings on the table if you really wanted to sell it - especially to a journalist of the 2nd largest production magazine. And I wasn’t the only one who received that treatment, as was revealed to me later on.

But hell, I’d done the review for Studio & Prod. (which would have given them a lot of exposure) if I wasn’t worried about the dealings with Heavenly Sound. All I can say is that the A16 won’t be on that list until Smyth/Heavenly get their communications in order.

But please, don’t misunderstand me: I do hope that you are right and I wish them all the best! It’s just that I can see the writings on the wall, as things stand at the moment.

Hey, I forgot to put on my special set of glasses ... sorry about that!

 

[chi2]

It does seem to me that even now everybody is trying to stay positive and optimistic - not least because Smyth Research is holding our money hostage and nobody wants to risk loosing it. But for me time has come to call a spade a spade: Their business practices are in every way unprofessional, inacceptable, and utterly pathetic.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

No professional device used in production comes with a decoder. In a DAW environment you feed raw PCM into an fx unit. For encoding purposes, we use units from the codecs’ respective developer. So much for that ... of course, for “audiophiles” plugging in an additional unit for the decoding part of the job (or using software for that matter) would be too complicated, apparently ... and approx. a 500 USD investment in addition to the 4000 USD for the A16. Of course, nobody could afford that ... .

So, there you have it - in that category you won’t be able to please two crowds at the same time. Another mistake in Smyth’s marketing nightmare.

As for Heavenly Sound: I presume you haven’t met their (=HS) staff in person yet (and yes, I have). They really couldn’t care less - and if their rhetorics lend any indication of what their hopes are for the A16 - then, well, we’d be all screw**. I mean, you’d probably want to explain what the device brings on the table if you really wanted to sell it - especially to a journalist of the 2nd largest production magazine. And I wasn’t the only one who received that treatment, as was revealed to me later on.

But hell, I’d done the review for Studio & Prod. (which would have given them a lot of exposure) if I wasn’t worried about the dealings with Heavenly Sound. All I can say is that the A16 won’t be on that list until Smyth/Heavenly get their communications in order.

But please, don’t misunderstand me: I do hope that you are right and I wish them all the best! It’s just that I can see the writings on the wall, as things stand at the moment.

Hey, I forgot to put on my special set of glasses ... sorry about that!

It seems to me the reason why they are saying so little is because even a defense of their business practices by them might reveal more information than they care to have everyone know. So they stay silent b/c that's the way to keep whatever they don't want us to know closely held to themselves.

 

[jgazal]

I thought royalties were calculated per unit sold and boxes were an integral part of the product design - not an afterthought.

 

[Maestroso]

I thought royalties were calculated per unit sold and boxes were an integral part of the product design - not an afterthought.

Yes and no. AFAIK, Dolby charges an initial down payment and then licensing per box on top.

About the prints on the boxes: The only hold-up I could think of are issues like where to place proprietary (again Dolby) logos and such. Otherwise, pretty straightforward. Overall, printing boxes should be a non-priority given the grave issues at hand here.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Yes and no. AFAIK, Dolby charges an initial down payment and then licensing per box on top.

About the prints on the boxes: The only hold-up I could think of are issues like where to place proprietary (again Dolby) logos and such. Otherwise, pretty straightforward. Overall, printing boxes should be a non-priority given the grave issues at hand here.

How much money we talking about for the down payment?

 

[Richter Di]

As for Heavenly Sound: I presume you haven’t met their (=HS) staff in person yet (and yes, I have). They really couldn’t care less - and if their rhetorics lend any indication of what their hopes are for the A16 - then, well, we’d be all screw**. I mean, you’d probably want to explain what the device brings on the table if you really wanted to sell it - especially to a journalist of the 2nd largest production magazine. And I wasn’t the only one who received that treatment, as was revealed to me later on.
But hell, I’d done the review for Studio & Prod. (which would have given them a lot of exposure) if I wasn’t worried about the dealings with Heavenly Sound. All I can say is that the A16 won’t be on that list until Smyth/Heavenly get their communications in order.

Great to have an insider here.
Could you tell us a bit more about your meeting with Heavenly Sound?

 

[Eich1eeF]

How much money we talking about for the down payment?

The initial down payment has already been payed, since it is due before the license applicant receives any software from dolby, long before the device is accepted for certification.

Note that Smyth Research Ltd. ist already listed at [URL]https://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/licensing/licensed-dolby-manufacturers.aspx[/URL]

 

[jgazal]

YouTube unites a bunch of content creators and Google decided to adopt Ambisonics. Perhaps Dolby and DTS are taking that into consideration to decide the royalties pricing.
The functionalities I see in packages are most related to marketing and protection. I'd rather believe the A16's package was already designed with those aims from the very beginning.

 

[OdysseusG]

Regarding licensing fees, my understanding was that the processor board they were using was purchased as a surround sound processor, which Smyth then modifies. That way the original seller is licensed and paying fees, with that cost factored into the sale price, and the purchaser doesn't have to worry about the process and huge up front fees.

Think back to most of the "audiophile" blu ray players being based off of Oppo units. Companies would buy entire Oppos and modify them, ranging from dropping the whole unit into a bigger chassis (Lexicon) to recycling everything but the transport and video boards (Ayre) and starting over.

 

[Eich1eeF]

Regarding licensing fees, my understanding was that the processor board they were using was purchased as a surround sound processor, which Smyth then modifies. That way the original seller is licensed and paying fees, with that cost factored into the sale price, and the purchaser doesn't have to worry about the process and huge up front fees.

While Momentum Data Systems is also licensed according to the list I linked to above, that doesn't explain why Smyth Research is also explicitly listed as a Licensee. I'd be rather surprised if the Smyths had not payed and were still listed. That is in contrast to Storm Audio and Focal, both of which use basically the same MDS DSP board and HDMI switcher as the Realizer.

Think back to most of the "audiophile" blu ray players being based off of Oppo units. Companies would buy entire Oppos and modify them, ranging from dropping the whole unit into a bigger chassis (Lexicon) to recycling everything but the transport and video boards (Ayre) and starting over.

And those two are not on the list.There's also Cambridge and McIntosh, who resold Oppo players in one shape or another, but are listed, probably for their processors / receivers.

 

[Maestroso]

Could you tell us a bit more about your meeting with Heavenly Sound?

I met a representative of Heavenly Sound (HS) at AES and wasn't impressed. As mentioned in a previous thread, his attitude pretty much went as in "why should I care", " I don't know", "It does surround" and he basically delegated all questions to James Smyth, who, at the time I actually found someone present at their booth, was on a break (however, when I ran into James at the conference a few days later, he was very responsive and happy to answer all questions - nothing wrong about his interactions, just to clarify!).

Throughout the conference I may have visited the booth about three times. Sometimes nobody had been present, sometimes that HS guy was standing somewhere beside but it wasn't really clear whether he belonged to the Smyth booth in the first place. None of the other attendees, whom I talked to, even noticed that Smyth Research had a presence at AES (, which is quite something to say, considering that there were no more than, say, 30 booths exhibiting).

After having wasted all this time and hearing from other visitors that they had experienced the same thing, I decided not to move on with my intentions to do a profile about the A16. I may reconsider if the A16 gets released and support as well as communication is up to reasonable standards. For now, my concern about the A16 relates to HS. If that was an indication for their dedication to the A16 project, then there is not much to look forward to. As for Smyth Research: On site the communication was ok, but we know how things have been in written terms. It remains to be seen whether they can convince us with the actual product. Of course, for that, the jury is still out ...

 

[Maestroso]

While Momentum Data Systems is also licensed according to the list I linked to above, that doesn't explain why Smyth Research is also explicitly listed as a Licensee. I'd be rather surprised if the Smyths had not payed and were still listed. That is in contrast to Storm Audio and Focal, both of which use basically the same MDS DSP board and HDMI switcher as the Realizer.

And those two are not on the list.There's also Cambridge and McIntosh, who resold Oppo players in one shape or another, but are listed, probably for their processors / receivers.

You are right. Thus, I stand corrected. Nevertheless, I would imagine them having to pay a per unit fee nonetheless. Let's just simply hope that the silence is not due to some financial bottleneck. Now wearing my glasses again, which makes me a bit more hopeful . The darkest hour is just before the dawn.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I met a representative of Heavenly Sound (HS) at AES and wasn't impressed. As mentioned in a previous thread, his attitude pretty much went as in "why should I care", " I don't know", "It does surround" and he basically delegated all questions to James Smyth, who, at the time I actually found someone present at their booth, was on a break (however, when I ran into James at the conference a few days later, he was very responsive and happy to answer all questions - nothing wrong about his interactions, just to clarify!).

Throughout the conference I may have visited the booth about three times. Sometimes nobody had been present, sometimes that HS guy was standing somewhere beside but it wasn't really clear whether he belonged to the Smyth booth in the first place. None of the other attendees, whom I talked to, even noticed that Smyth Research had a presence at AES (, which is quite something to say, considering that there were no more than, say, 30 booths exhibiting).

After having wasted all this time and hearing from other visitors that they had experienced the same thing, I decided not to move on with my intentions to do a profile about the A16. I may reconsider if the A16 gets released and support as well as communication is up to reasonable standards. For now, my concern about the A16 relates to HS. If that was an indication for their dedication to the A16 project, then there is not much to look forward to. As for Smyth Research: On site the communication was ok, but we know how things have been in written terms. It remains to be seen whether they can convince us with the actual product. Of course, for that, the jury is still out ...

HS are the money people. They provided the "angel financing" hence their name.