[esimms86]

Thank you very much for that. Had a quick look. Technofear kicked in pretty quickly but I am looking on my phone. I'll have a proper look on my tablet later. I've had a PRIR done at a show and hope to use a preset BRIR as I don't have a speaker set up. I use an iPhone, iPad and Sonos speakers so I am used to being spoonfed my tech. It will be very interesting to see if I can master the A16 interface. I agree that a new thread might be good so that people like me don't drive all you knowledgeable guys nuts with dumb questions!

Your unit will ship with the PRIR so all you would need to do is to make a file specific to your own headphones on your own head to pair with the PRIR. That should at least get you started with listening to music/movies.

 

[Sanctuary]

Maybe? I don’t particularly like the clutter of multiple threads on the same topic, as people inevitably post on all the threads, but then again Head-Fi makes separate “CanJam Announcement” and “CanJam Impressions” threads for each meet. If the first poster of this thread could edit their first post to include a link to an “impressions” thread, that would be great, but even if we only keep the one thread, I think people would generally skip to the latest page anyway.

Problem with these "mega threads", especially if they don't even contain any real relevant information yet is that when people don't keep up with them, it's hard to know what page the useful stuff actually started, and also you end up with a bunch of snots saying "read the thread", even if it's over 500 pages by that point, especially if they get tired of having to answer similar questions all of the time. As a compromise, instead of needing to start a new thread, maybe make an annotation in the first post that tells you to just jump to page whatever to begin.

As for dangling speakers, I still haven't decided on what we are going to do, but there's no way I would be able to use my fronts like that. I have some ~22 inch bookshelf speakers that were used for surrounds in the 5.1 setup that I was actually thinking of using bungee cords with, or some other thick elastic material to either suspend them directly from above, or instead using one of the stackable shelves we have that can almost reach the ceiling and angle the speakers as parallel to the floor as I can. Suspension wouldn't work though when we decide to rent a drier room to repeat this process, so I might just end up having to buy one good adjustable height stand and speakers that would actually fit on them. What I have right now would need some kind of huge clamp to hold them, since they don't have the correct mounts in the back. I know PA systems have these kinds of clamps, but I haven't been able to find them anywhere online, just the stands without the actual mounting system.

 

[Evshrug]

@Sanctuary I hear you, and starting over DOES seem far more attractive than wading through 330-400 pages of people (including me) anxious about delays. I thought I had suggested an OP first post link up to the beginning of impressions, but I guess I only typed about the beginning of a new thread.

The more I think of it (and since this thread ISN’T labeled the “Impressions and Discussion Thread”), the more I warm up to the idea of starting fresh. If/when the A16 is delivered, we won’t “need” this thread anymore, and we can focus on happier and more exploratory stuff. Still would be nice to signpost to people that this bigger, older thread is “dead,” and suggest people move on to the post-release discussion thread.

Edit: And do Dolby Atmos speakers need to be angled parallel with the floor? Or just tilted down 45°? Based on the angles I remember (correctly??) from the show PRIR’s, we could just stack our milk crates a bit higher, prop the speakers down at an angle, and secure them to the crate platform so they don’t fall forward.

I have a friend with a PA speaker, but I believe the quality of the speaker also has an effect on the final DSP, so I’d want to use the best speakers I have (mine).

 

[SergioPOE]

@Sanctuary I hear you, and starting over DOES seem far more attractive than wading through 330-400 pages of people (including me) anxious about delays. I thought I had suggested an OP first post link up to the beginning of impressions, but I guess I only typed about the beginning of a new thread.

The more I think of it (and since this thread ISN’T labeled the “Impressions and Discussion Thread”), the more I warm up to the idea of starting fresh. If/when the A16 is delivered, we won’t “need” this thread anymore, and we can focus on happier and more exploratory stuff. Still would be nice to signpost to people that this bigger, older thread is “dead,” and suggest people move on to the post-release discussion thread.

Edit: And do Dolby Atmos speakers need to be angled parallel with the floor? Or just tilted down 45°? Based on the angles I remember (correctly??) from the show PRIR’s, we could just stack our milk crates a bit higher, prop the speakers down at an angle, and secure them to the crate platform so they don’t fall forward.

I have a friend with a PA speaker, but I believe the quality of the speaker also has an effect on the final DSP, so I’d want to use the best speakers I have (mine).

Atmos "enabled" speakers fire up to the ceiling so the sound bounces back down to the listener, so the sound from those probably comes down at least at a 60º angle. Proper Atmos speakers that are attached to the ceiling are aimed perpendicular to the floor, so to get a proper overhead effect, you would probably need between 60 and 90º of inclination.
If nothing else, it should be fairly easy to emulate a 9.1 set-up.

 

[krismusic]

All this talk of milk crates. Is speaker set up no longer a thing? I would have thought the Realiser would need to measure an optimal speaker set up. Surely better to buy a profile from a well set up room than cobble together a system like this?

 

[castleofargh]

All this talk of milk crates. Is speaker set up no longer a thing? I would have thought the Realiser would need to measure an optimal speaker set up. Surely better to buy a profile from a well set up room than cobble together a system like this?

but then you don't get the sound of the speakers as measured at your own ear. surely it will all come down to trial and error, and personal preferences, but as a Realiser allows to record both speaker and headphone from our own and same reference point, it's very interesting to get that level of per user customization IMO. I'm guessing that those with subpar speakers and rooms might be more often tempted by some famous ready-made room profiles if it's not too expensive, while others will probably want to test and build up their own... everything! and the idea of a room made from X times the exact same speaker, that's sort of an audiophile phantasm as you'll never get exactly the same transducers IRL. I don't care about that level of fidelity, but you can be pretty sure that I will NEED to try it ^_^.

 

[Sordel]

All this talk of milk crates. Is speaker set up no longer a thing? I would have thought the Realiser would need to measure an optimal speaker set up. Surely better to buy a profile from a well set up room than cobble together a system like this?

Psychoacoustically speaking it may be better to have a “fake” system recorded in the room you are sitting in rather than a “real” system recorded in a room with very different dimensions and surfaces. If you already have a perfect listening room with a flagship-quality reproduction system well, mazel tov, but then I kind of wonder why you need an A16 at all!

 

[sander99]

If you already have a perfect listening room with a flagship-quality reproduction system well, mazel tov, but then I kind of wonder why you need an A16 at all!

One reason could be that you could take the sound of your perfect listening room with you to every other room in the house, or into the garden (for example with extension cables for headphones and headtracker), or even on holidays, or on the road (wouldn't be too difficult to install an A16 in a car or camper or caravan).
Of course usually a flagship-quality reproduction system would have been setup in a well isolated room, but sometimes someone has a system that is good enough but in an environment where it can not be played as loud as one would want, because of neighbours, sleeping children etc. In such a situation having a virtual copy of your system that you can play as loud as you want, at any time of day or night, is very usefull.
I am now using a far-from-perfect 5.0 loudspeaker system, yet I am reasonably content with it. But I live in a not-very-well-isolated appartment an I can not play the system very loud, I am even reluctand to play it reasonably loud because I don't want to annoy my neighbours at all. So at the moment I can not really use it to my full enjoyment. Only to have a virtual version of this simple 5.0 system would already be very usefull to me.

 

[MichaelJames99]

@Sanctuary I hear you, and starting over DOES seem far more attractive than wading through 330-400 pages of people (including me) anxious about delays. I thought I had suggested an OP first post link up to the beginning of impressions, but I guess I only typed about the beginning of a new thread.

The more I think of it (and since this thread ISN’T labeled the “Impressions and Discussion Thread”), the more I warm up to the idea of starting fresh. If/when the A16 is delivered, we won’t “need” this thread anymore, and we can focus on happier and more exploratory stuff. Still would be nice to signpost to people that this bigger, older thread is “dead,” and suggest people move on to the post-release discussion thread.

Edit: And do Dolby Atmos speakers need to be angled parallel with the floor? Or just tilted down 45°? Based on the angles I remember (correctly??) from the show PRIR’s, we could just stack our milk crates a bit higher, prop the speakers down at an angle, and secure them to the crate platform so they don’t fall forward.

I have a friend with a PA speaker, but I believe the quality of the speaker also has an effect on the final DSP, so I’d want to use the best speakers I have (mine).

Good idea on starting a new thread. Have often asked Q&A in the top section then commentary after that

 

[Got the Shakes]

Yeah starting a new thread is a great idea. For one it would be a good place to share experiences, tip and tricks, and troubleshooting. Also we can leave behind some of the mess of this thread about the discussion of all the delays. It’s looking like we’re close to the point where we can put all of that behind us.

 

[Sanctuary]

All this talk of milk crates. Is speaker set up no longer a thing? I would have thought the Realiser would need to measure an optimal speaker set up. Surely better to buy a profile from a well set up room than cobble together a system like this?

Who said I didn't take measurements? Unless having the speakers in the positions they would have actually been in if you had multiples of the same speakers is not considered a measurement to you. In fact, the single speaker method I did gave a lot better results overall compared to the somewhat ghetto 5.1 system anyway. I ended up using one of the fronts as a center, which isn't something you can typically do in a regular setup, and it sounds even better than the legitimate center.

As for the record, no, it's not actually better to buy rooms from other people. Or at least not the way they have been so far. Just about none of the surround PRIRs that were uploaded sound good to me, and even my 5.1 setup with a mix of speaker quality sounds like the real thing where none of those did, or even if they did, the speaker timbre just sounded way off, and even worse than Dolby Headphone. And I've tried all of the MSM studio copies too. About the only thing those PRIRs had going for them were that two of them correctly emulated speakers from the 5 and 7 positions.

 

[krismusic]

Who said I didn't take measurements? Unless having the speakers in the positions they would have actually been in if you had multiples of the same speakers is not considered a measurement to you. In fact, the single speaker method I did gave a lot better results overall compared to the somewhat ghetto 5.1 system anyway. I ended up using one of the fronts as a center, which isn't something you can typically do in a regular setup, and it sounds even better than the legitimate center.

As for the record, no, it's not actually better to buy rooms from other people. Or at least not the way they have been so far. Just about none of the surround PRIRs that were uploaded sound good to me, and even my 5.1 setup with a mix of speaker quality sounds like the real thing where none of those did, or even if they did, the speaker timbre just sounded way off, and even worse than Dolby Headphone. And I've tried all of the MSM studio copies too. About the only thing those PRIRs had going for them were that two of them correctly emulated speakers from the 5 and 7 positions.

I am surprised if speakers balanced on milk crates sound better than a well set up room. If what you say about PRIRs is the case, that does not bode well as that was what I was intending to use.

 

[Sanctuary]

I am surprised if speakers balanced on milk crates sound better than a well set up room. If what you say about PRIRs is the case, that does not bode well as that was what I was intending to use.

Not sure you understand correct speaker placement then at all. You don't want your surrounds and rears being the exact same height as the fronts and center. They need to be around a foot above ear level, which is where the crate comes in. I was using floor standing speakers. If I was using standard surrounds, with the correct stands, they would have ended up at the same level anyway...

Besides that, how many people do you think will actually be able to fly to Germany, or wherever the closest professional studio is? Most people likely only care to capture the sound they already have, if it's good enough. Unless they spent tens of thousands of dollars on a dedicated theater room, it seems then that by your standards, no one would have a "well set up" room.

Also, some others have found acceptable PRIRs to their ears, which likely just means that their ears and head structure were similar enough for a decent sound, though I highly doubt they would have gotten a perfect HRTF.

 

[sander99]

I am surprised if speakers balanced on milk crates sound better than a well set up room. If what you say about PRIRs is the case, that does not bode well as that was what I was intending to use.

What is important to understand is that your own personal measurement gives the most realistic result. Of course if the speakers used are complete crap then the virtual version will also be crap. However:
1. Not all aspects of speaker quality are influencing the quality of the virtual system. Some forms of non-linear distortion won't be in the virtual system. Mainly frequency response matters.
2. The virtual system performance can be increased by limiting reverberation and using the direct bass option.

sorry for the repeated editing of this post: I'm using my phone and things got messy

 

[Dixter]

when you take single speaker readings do you start out with output #1 on the rear of the realizer and as you move to the next speaker location do you move the connection to the other outputs... like start with output #1, then move the connection to output #2 and so forth... #1 then #2 then #3... I'm asking this because the manual states the HDMI output does not carry the recording signal sweeps... so you need to use the RCA jacks for the sweeps ??? do I have this correct or am I making it harder than it actually is....