[sander99]

You could potentially use every analog and digital audio output at the exact same time.

This is only true for all headphone related outputs, but not for the 3.5 mm jack outputs. In AV mode only the 3.5 mm jack outputs are active. In "non-AV" mode all headphone related outputs can be active. Generally, if there is a headphone signal for user A it will be available simultaniously at the normal HP A 6.3 mm headphone output, the HP A analog cinch outputs, and the HP A spdif (coax and optical) outputs. Likewise for user B. (Except in balanced mode, then the headphone amps are bridged and both 6.3 mm jack outputs are used for user A, I don't know what the other HP outputs do then exacly).
(On the future features list is a hybrid mode in which headphones and 3.5 mm jack AV outputs can be used simultaniously, but if and when this ever will be implemented?)

AV-in said that it's an interesting idea to use the stereo mixdown mode, that may allow me to plug the speakers on the HP-A output.

That is correct. You could connect the analog HP A or B cinch outputs to an amplifier with speakers, or the digital HP A or B coax or optical to a DAC or amplifier with digital input.

Do you think I will have to manually disable all of those treatement each time I want to use the speakers?

You can play the processed headphone signal over speakers but it will sound a little odd!

The "normal" way to use the A16 with speakers is by using the 3.5 mm jack outputs that output pre-amp signals that can be input to power amps, integrated amps, or active speaker.

That means that even on AV mode, when the speakers works, a PRIR is needed? I guess it's just for internal processing and doesn't affect audio signal, right?

You should prepare one preset for this, with up to 4 listening rooms (one for each of the source formats that you use, pcm, dolby, dts, auro 3D). You need a PRIR indeed although it is not used in AV mode (and indeed doesn't affect the audio signal). That is a little odd of course, but not a problem because you can use any PRIR for example one of the factory provided ones. The main thing is that in each listening room the listening mode is set to 2.0 (in your case, wanting to use only 2 speakers), that way the A16 knows it has to downmix any input signal to 2.0.
[Edit: oooh, actually I think I may have this completely wrong: I am not really sure the A16 will downmix if the source has more channels than the listening mode supports. Maybe it will simply ignore the extra channels.]

I think there is a static level setting, made for connect a DAC to the A16.

No. The user A volume control works on all HP A outputs including the spdif (coax and optical). Similar for B. Maybe a little different in single user modes, like balanced or 24 channel mode, but still always there is a volume control active.

Let's say I go the classic way with speakers pluged on the 3,5mm line outs, practically, how do you switch from a headphone multichanel setup to a 2.0 speaker setup? Switching PRIR (multichannel to 2.0) can be done via the remote? Then I need to switch from headphone mode to AV mode?

Normally to listen to 2 speakers you should switch to the preset (that I described above) AND switch to AV mode.
It is a little clumsy unfortunately.
But note: if you use a good personal 2.0 PRIR in that preset you can quickly switch between real and virtual 2.0 speakers by only switching on or of AV mode.
And when listening to a stereo source (without upmixing) it doesn't make a difference whether you are in the 2.0 listening room or a multi channel listening room.
Likewise: if you are in another preset with multichannel listening rooms and then switch to AV mode you will simply hear only channels 1 and 2 (front L and front R) over the real speakers. And again, if your source happens to be stereo (and no upmixing is used) it doesn't matter.
So only when listening to multichannel content the double switch (preset and av mode) is needed.

 

[Litlgi74]

Sorry for the delay...

"The stereo mix down path can be used to pass regular.
stereo content straight to the headphones, or it can be used to create a stereo mix down of multi-channel content".

This will work... But I would make sure to be using a flat HPEQ... Or to leave the HPEQ portion of the listening room disabled...



Otherwise... You may hear music that has been altered by the assigned HPEQ.

Let's say I go the classic way with speakers pluged on the 3,5mm line outs, practically, how do you switch from a headphone multichanel setup to a 2.0 speaker setup? Switching PRIR (multichannel to 2.0) can be done via the remote? Then I need to switch from headphone mode to AV mode?

You would enable AV mode



And toggle back and forth between speaker and headphones... Also, when doing this... there will be no stereo mix down for multi-channel content... Each decoded channel will be sent to the assigned 3.5mm line out.



Also note that the AV mode is disabled while the A16 is running in 24-speaker mode due to the fact that the A16 only supports 16 line output...

That means that even on AV mode, when the speakers works, a PRIR is needed?

Yes

I guess it's just for internal processing and doesn't affect audio signal, right?

In theory

or it can be used to create a stereo mix down of multi-channel content".

YMMV on this... I've had mixed results... Some multi channel content does not sound the same when mixed down to two channel...vs an original 2 channel version of the same recording.

 

[sander99]

@rubantripleface: I edited my post above, but also make an extra post here because I may have been talking nonsense!
I am not really sure the A16 will downmix if the source has more channels than the listening mode supports. Maybe it will simply ignore the extra channels.

If that is the case probably for you the best solution is to use the HP A or HP B signal (analog or digital) with stereo mixdown mode for the real speakers.

[Edit: I have used the AV mode and 3.5 mm jacks with real speakers (and amps), but not with 2 but with 11 real speakers! ]

 

[phoenixdogfan]

`In SE mode, is it possible to pass an LPCM two channel signal via the Spdif or usb outs, or will it only pass an anallog signal via the 3.5mm analog output?

 

[GeorgeA]

`In SE mode, is it possible to pass an LPCM two channel signal via the Spdif or usb outs, or will it only pass an anallog signal via the 3.5mm analog output?

Please take into consideration that the Realiser A16 Speaker Edition (SE) is somewhat different from the Headphone Edition. It’s kind of oxymoron. The version with headphones works best through PRIRs. The Speaker Edition is also based on specific PRIRs, but not clearly explained by the manufacturer. I think John (@Litlgi74) knows a bit more, but probably he’s not allowed to give details.

 

[rubantripleface]

This is only true for all headphone related outputs, but not for the 3.5 mm jack outputs. In AV mode only the 3.5 mm jack outputs are active. In "non-AV" mode all headphone related outputs can be active. Generally, if there is a headphone signal for user A it will be available simultaniously at the normal HP A 6.3 mm headphone output, the HP A analog cinch outputs, and the HP A spdif (coax and optical) outputs. Likewise for user B. (Except in balanced mode, then the headphone amps are bridged and both 6.3 mm jack outputs are used for user A, I don't know what the other HP outputs do then exacly).
(On the future features list is a hybrid mode in which headphones and 3.5 mm jack AV outputs can be used simultaniously, but if and when this ever will be implemented?)

That is correct. You could connect the analog HP A or B cinch outputs to an amplifier with speakers, or the digital HP A or B coax or optical to a DAC or amplifier with digital input.

You can play the processed headphone signal over speakers but it will sound a little odd!

The "normal" way to use the A16 with speakers is by using the 3.5 mm jack outputs that output pre-amp signals that can be input to power amps, integrated amps, or active speaker.

You should prepare one preset for this, with up to 4 listening rooms (one for each of the source formats that you use, pcm, dolby, dts, auro 3D). You need a PRIR indeed although it is not used in AV mode (and indeed doesn't affect the audio signal). That is a little odd of course, but not a problem because you can use any PRIR for example one of the factory provided ones. The main thing is that in each listening room the listening mode is set to 2.0 (in your case, wanting to use only 2 speakers), that way the A16 knows it has to downmix any input signal to 2.0.
[Edit: oooh, actually I think I may have this completely wrong: I am not really sure the A16 will downmix if the source has more channels than the listening mode supports. Maybe it will simply ignore the extra channels.]

No. The user A volume control works on all HP A outputs including the spdif (coax and optical). Similar for B. Maybe a little different in single user modes, like balanced or 24 channel mode, but still always there is a volume control active.

Normally to listen to 2 speakers you should switch to the preset (that I described above) AND switch to AV mode.
It is a little clumsy unfortunately.
But note: if you use a good personal 2.0 PRIR in that preset you can quickly switch between real and virtual 2.0 speakers by only switching on or of AV mode.
And when listening to a stereo source (without upmixing) it doesn't make a difference whether you are in the 2.0 listening room or a multi channel listening room.
Likewise: if you are in another preset with multichannel listening rooms and then switch to AV mode you will simply hear only channels 1 and 2 (front L and front R) over the real speakers. And again, if your source happens to be stereo (and no upmixing is used) it doesn't matter.
So only when listening to multichannel content the double switch (preset and av mode) is needed.

So much interesting informations, thanks!

I'll not use downmix stereo. If I listen on my speaker, the sources will be true stereo mix for sure.

So I understand that I can use the same PRIR for multichanel listening on headphone, and 2.0 listening on speaker, that's great

I just don't get why a 2.0 PRIR is needed for multichanel mixdown to stereo listening. In fact, I don't understand why PRIR are needed for speaker listening.

Sorry for the delay...



This will work... But I would make sure to be using a flat HPEQ... Or to leave the HPEQ portion of the listening room disabled...



Otherwise... You may hear music that has been altered by the assigned HPEQ.



You would enable AV mode



And toggle back and forth between speaker and headphones... Also, when doing this... there will be no stereo mix down for multi-channel content... Each decoded channel will be sent to the assigned 3.5mm line out.



Also note that the AV mode is disabled while the A16 is running in 24-speaker mode due to the fact that the A16 only supports 16 line output...


Yes


In theory



YMMV on this... I've had mixed results... Some multi channel content does not sound the same when mixed down to two channel...vs an original 2 channel version of the same recording.

Thanks again! I'll go the classic 3.5mm way for ease of use.

I would love to have the choice to use the TRS mini jack as balanced or unbalanced connexion. Is that something on the way you think?

Use output 1/2 + 3/4 on just 2 speakers, so the connexion is balanced (which is easier to connect to speaker with XLR). Or use output 1/2 for classic unbalanced connexion.

Also, would be a lot easier to state that, when headphone is pluged, the sound come to the headphone output. When it's not pluged, it come from the speaker outputs. For what I learn thanks to you, it's not possible right now. But I can turn on AV-mode always active, and switch with the remote when I'm with headphone or speaker, right ? Or when listening with headphone I have to turn off AV mode?

 

[sander99]

I just don't get why a 2.0 PRIR is needed for multichanel mixdown to stereo listening. In fact, I don't understand why PRIR are needed for speaker listening.

Well, first of all: I was probably wrong about the A16 downmixing for use with the 3.5 mm jacks so the whole story of creating a 2.0 listening room is then also not applicable. And for the other method using stereo mixdown amd HP output you don't need it.
About needing a PRIR at all in AV mode: that is just a "design quirk" I suspect. Technically it does nothing and should not be needed.

 

[sander99]

Thanks again! I'll go the classic 3.5mm way for ease of use.

Unfortunately, as I said it will possibly not downmix to stereo this way.

I would love to have the choice to use the TRS mini jack as balanced or unbalanced connexion. Is that something on the way you think?

Smyth never mentioned plans for this but they had a lot of other plans that have not been realised yet so I would not count on it.
(They do offer a different version of the A16, "A16 Realiser 2U PRO-ANALOG" with 16 balanced line outputs and inputs using DB25 (Tascam) connectors.)

 

[rubantripleface]

Unfortunately, as I said it will possibly not downmix to stereo this way.

It'll not downmix a multichannel mix to a stereo mix? I'm okay with that.

Let's say I want to watch an atmos film, I'll only play it with headphones.
And if I want to play a CD, I want to play it with headphone or speaker.

In those case, just one multichannel PRIR can be used, no?

Above all, I want the CD data to be untouched (no enhancer, no auromatic etc).

By the way, is it possible to play a CD on headphone output and don't have PRIR/HPEQ active? Like I would listen to a CD with a classic DAC. I can be interested in this too (but I admit that playing a CD with PRIR/HPEQ is a great thing in my opinion!)

 

[GeorgeA]

......................

By the way, is it possible to play a CD on headphone output and don't have PRIR/HPEQ active? Like I would listen to a CD with a classic DAC. I can be interested in this too (but I admit that playing a CD with PRIR/HPEQ is a great thing in my opinion!)

Please read carefully Chapter 11 Stereo Bypass in the user manual: “The stereo mix down path can be used to pass regular stereo content straight to the headphones, or it can be used to create a stereo mix down of multi-channel content…..”

There’s also a Realiser A16 operational overview at pages #9-10. You’ll notice that PRIRs and HPEQs are sine qua non variables for a Realiser A16 unit to work properly.

 

[GeorgeA]

@rubantripleface: Hasn’t Gilles Gerin of av-in.com given you a French version of the user manual?

 

[rubantripleface]

Please read carefully Chapter 11 Stereo Bypass in the user manual: “The stereo mix down path can be used to pass regular stereo content straight to the headphones, or it can be used to create a stereo mix down of multi-channel content…..”

There’s also a Realiser A16 operational overview at pages #9-10. You’ll notice that PRIRs and HPEQs are sine qua non variables for a Realiser A16 unit to work properly.

Yeah this is what I read too, so it seems obvious to me. I felt a bit unsure of what sander99 called "downmix to stereo" on the 2last messages and ger a bit confused by the last back&forth.

I differenciate "mixdown" which is a digital process that'll reduce 5.1 to stereo or stereo to mono for exemple.

And the fact that a stereo audio signal enter the A16, and hit only 2 virtual speaker on a multichannel preset (so virtual speakers other than Front L and Front R doesn't recieve any audio signal), and then output on just 2 speakers, by keeping the direct stereo audio data without unecessary process.

I don't call this a mixdown, because here, the native audio signal is stereo, the virtual room use Front R and Front L (and no more speakers), and the speaker are connected on output 1/2.

The question was more about the processing in the virtual room of the A16, what happened to the other virtual speaker (otherwise than Front L and Front R).

Because I've specified in the last messages that I wasn't interested in mixdown a multichannel file into a stereo file. Hope I'm clearer now

@rubantripleface: Hasn’t Gilles Gerin of av-in.com given you a French version of the user manual?

No, but I stick with the English manual, except if there is vocabulary or sentence I don't understand.

I think that for the moment, my questions was things that weren't textually written on the manual, or that confuse me between this and informations I get on internet, because I give a lot of interest to community like here where people own the devices and can give operational advice (because I don't own the A16 yet)

 

[GeorgeA]

Yeah this is what I read too, so it seems obvious to me. I felt a bit unsure of what sander99 called "downmix to stereo" on the 2last messages and ger a bit confused by the last back&forth.

I differenciate "mixdown" which is a digital process that'll reduce 5.1 to stereo or stereo to mono for exemple.

And the fact that a stereo audio signal enter the A16, and hit only 2 virtual speaker on a multichannel preset (so virtual speakers other than Front L and Front R doesn't recieve any audio signal), and then output on just 2 speakers, by keeping the direct stereo audio data without unecessary process.

I don't call this a mixdown, because here, the native audio signal is stereo, the virtual room use Front R and Front L (and no more speakers), and the speaker are connected on output 1/2.

The question was more about the processing in the virtual room of the A16, what happened to the other virtual speaker (otherwise than Front L and Front R).

Because I've specified in the last messages that I wasn't interested in mixdown a multichannel file into a stereo file. Hope I'm clearer now


No, but I stick with the English manual, except if there is vocabulary or sentence I don't understand.

I think that for the moment, my questions was things that weren't textually written on the manual, or that confuse me between this and informations I get on internet, because I give a lot of interest to community like here where people own the devices and can give operational advice (because I don't own the A16 yet)

Regardless of what you read in this thread or elsewhere, I think the manual should be the reference, especially in terms of the specific Realiser A16 terminology. Don’t forget that living in France you have a big advantage. Gilles Gerin is one of the most knowledgeable connoisseurs of Smyth Virtual Surround technology and Realiser A16 devices.

 

[sander99]

In those case, just one multichannel PRIR can be used, no?

Yes, that is correct.

 

[sander99]

@rubantripleface:
I was wondering about that A16 that you can buy, does it have DTS X and Auro 3D activated/licensed?
In case you didn't know: Standard the A16 only supports Dolby (incl. HD and Atmos) and of course PCM up to 7.1. You can upgrade to DTS X, or DTS X and Auro 3D (DTS is needed for Auro 3D) but it will cost US $199 plus taxes for DTS X, Auro 3D I cannot find the price but I think it is a similar amount(?).