[Litlgi74]

If you don't mind me asking, is this a makeshift stand, and if so, what did you use? It almost looks like the bottom of the speaker is resting on a book stand, and the speaker itself is being held in place with padding/bungie cords. I've really been looking for a similar solution for a while now for heights, since I don't want to have to butcher the speakers I already have just to get them to fit on PA mounts.

The stand itself is a 2 ton jack stand from harbor freight... https://www.harborfreight.com/autom...n-capacity-underhoist-safety-stand-61600.html
The part that holds the speaker was custom made by a friend of mine... It was specifically made to hold the Dutch and Dutch 8c speakers at 45 and 60°.


As you can see.. there is a lip welded on to the front of the brackets base plate to hold the speaker from sliding forward.. The speaker is then secured to the bracket with a ratchet strap. To prevent scratching of the speaker.. I covered the base plate of the bracket with felt... In the photo from the studio.. you can see that I used a towel underneath the ratchet strap to prevent any scratching on the top and edges of the speaker.

FYI.. the Dutch and Dutch speakers weigh 60-ish lbs a piece... I wouldn't risk leaning a heavy speaker like that forward (at 60°) without something as robust as these brackets.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

If you don't mind me asking, is this a makeshift stand, and if so, what did you use? It almost looks like the bottom of the speaker is resting on a book stand, and the speaker itself is being held in place with padding/bungie cords. I've really been looking for a similar solution for a while now for heights, since I don't want to have to butcher the speakers I already have just to get them to fit on PA mounts.

An alternative to what Litgi74 is using is something like this:

https://www.standsonline.com/free-s...ht-(3375-59)-Speaker-Stands__VTI-BLE101B.aspx

They will hold up to 35 lbs, and have a small enough footprint that they can be used as conventional speaker stands for either bookshelf fronts or surrounds. Cost is $169 and they look good in a living room. I use simple straps like these available from Amazon


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08H7XBDLY?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details

A way to get the speakers to sit at an angle is to wedge an eyeglass case under them so the back sits higher on the stand than the front (just make certain they are very securely lashed to the stand and you have something soft under them so you don't hurt their finish).

I'm still experimenting with this, but something like an orienteering compass looks like a good way to set the angles up if you're moving things around.

Finally, I've just watched a Youtube video discussing the import of Auro 3D. Apparently A3D is, among other things, a way to remix Atmos to enhance its realizm.

There seem to be a lot of poor Atmos mixes out there, but the individuals say it will be possible to greatly enhance them by remixing in Auro, and apparetly any Auro certified receiver will have that capability as part of its standard. That of course means if Smyth ever gets the A16 so certified, it will have that capability.

In order to work properly, Auro requires the height speaker layer be 30 degrees above the base layer, with each height speaker directly above a base layer speaker. I think that's something to keep in mind when making PRIRs. Looking at the angles on the 16 and 24 Atmos set ups, it appears the 24 channel set up has all its height channels directly above a base layer speaker, which would make it a natural, future proofed set up for both Atmos and Auro.



Starting at 9:15, this FOMO video talks about how to create the single unified layout needed to do all three immersive formats. Obviously, to properly capture, it will be essential to use virtual speaker labels which are valid for all three formats as recognized by Smyth.

 

[Litlgi74]

In order to work properly, Auro requires the height speaker layer be 30 degrees above the base layer, with each height speaker directly above a base layer speaker. I think that's something to keep in mind when making PRIRs. Looking at the angles on the 16 and 24 Atmos set ups, it appears the 24 channel set up has all its height channels directly above a base layer speaker, which would make it a natural, future proofed set up for both Atmos and Auro.

Not really sure why they're saying that Dolby Atmos is not compatible with Auto 3D...

Having the height channels directly above the left and right channels, front and rear is Dolby spec... As seen in their speaker setup guide (p.57) here:

The left front height and right front height speakers should be mounted on the front wall
(instead of on the ceiling) in line with an approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the
center-front reference. This places the left front height and right front height speakers
directly above the left and right speakers. If the left front height and right front height
speakers must be mounted on the ceiling, they should be placed no more than one-eighth
the distance to the middle of the room, approximately 45 degrees vertical from the centerfront
reference...etc

This is exactly what I did when making my in studio PRIRs.

 

[GeorgeA]

This post gives some comments with respect to information in posts #11,837 and 11,838 and not refer to criticism.

I’ll be quite reluctant to use the stands recommended in post #11,837 for measuring height speakers. As they don’t have tripod base, it’s not really certain that they will not topple when the speakers placed on them are at 2 metre height and tilted at 60 degrees, for example. By using an eyeglass case under speakers and lashing straps, it can be a compromise, but not quite on the safe side.

It’s often said that competition is beneficial to the end consumer. However, when competitors come up with quite different approaches, finding a middle ground is not exactly easy. This is also the case for creating a “single unified layout” needed to do all several immersive formats, such as Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D, at home.

Now, one can notice the versatility offered by Realiser A16 in getting various virtual speaker layouts than that for real speakers.

The Dolby Atmos installation guidelines specify that the left front height and right front height speakers should be mounted on the front wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with an approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the centre-front reference. This places the left front height and right front height speakers directly above the left and right speakers.

The last sentence is not quite true. Manufacturers recommend that their speakers to be placed at certain distances from walls to mitigate acoustical issues. So, if the front height speakers are mounted on the front wall and the front left and right speakers (at ear level) are at some distance from the wall behind them, then those speakers are not quite vertically stacked.

On the other hand, by using properly designed speaker stands, owners of Realiser A16 are able to measure the left front and right front height speakers directly above the left front and right speakers.

Just as there are installation guidelines for Dolby Atmos, there are similar guidelines for Auro 3D. An excerpt: “The Auro-3D® format is a hybrid format, which uses both channel- and object-based technology (the latter called AuroMax®), depending on the final goal. In order to create a proper immersive experience using object-based technology, typically more than 20 individually amplified speakers are required.”

So, in conclusion, sometimes it is necessary to find intermediate or blending qualities among various possibilities. In other words, a certain amount of compromise is necessary.

 

[Litlgi74]

The Genelec 8351 at 60°... 31lbs


Whatever method you use... You'd better be certain the speaker is secure... Otherwise... It's a costly fall.

 

[Richter Di]

Did anyone try the new Apple music Dolby Atmos via eg. an iPad Pro with an camera adapter to HDMI to the Smyth Realiser A16?

 

[Litlgi74]

Have you tried this with HDR content?

Sorry for the delay... Yes, the switch passes HDR.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Did anyone try the new Apple music Dolby Atmos via eg. an iPad Pro with an camera adapter to HDMI to the Smyth Realiser A16?

I have not tried connecting any iOS devices to the A16 because I don’t have the camera adapter. I have tried Atmos in Apple Music using my Apple TV 4K that is connected tot he A16 though. Some of the tracks sound quite impressive, some don’t.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

This post gives some comments with respect to information in posts #11,837 and 11,838 and not refer to criticism.

I’ll be quite reluctant to use the stands recommended in post #11,837 for measuring height speakers. As they don’t have tripod base, it’s not really certain that they will not topple when the speakers placed on them are at 2 metre height and tilted at 60 degrees, for example. By using an eyeglass case under speakers and lashing straps, it can be a compromise, but not quite on the safe side.

It’s often said that competition is beneficial to the end consumer. However, when competitors come up with quite different approaches, finding a middle ground is not exactly easy. This is alsthe case for creating a “single unified layout” needed to do all several immersive formats, such as Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D, at home.

Now, one can notice the versatility offered by Realiser A16 in getting various virtual speaker layouts than that for real speakers.

The Dolby Atmos installation guidelines specify that the left front height and right front height speakers should be mounted on the front wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with an approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the centre-front reference. This places the left front height and right front height speakers directly above the left and right speakers.

The last sentence is not quite true. Manufacturers recommend that their speakers to be placed at certain distances from walls to mitigate acoustical issues. So, if the front height speakers are mounted on the front wall and the front left and right speakers (at ear level) are at some distance from the wall behind them, then those speakers are not quite vertically stacked.

On the other hand, by using properly designed speaker stands, owners of Realiser A16 are able to measure the left front and right front height speakers directly above the left front and right speakers.

Just as there are installation guidelines for Dolby Atmos, there are similar guidelines for Auro 3D. An excerpt: “The Auro-3D® format is a hybrid format, which uses both channel- and object-based technology (the latter called AuroMax®), depending on the final goal. In order to create a proper immersive experience using object-based technology, typically more than 20 individually amplified speakers are required.”

So, in conclusion, sometimes it is necessary to find interm

This post gives some comments with respect to information in posts #11,837 and 11,838 and not refer to criticism.

I’ll be quite reluctant to use the stands recommended in post #11,837 for measuring height speakers. As they don’t have tripod base, it’s not really certain that they will not topple when the speakers placed on them are at 2 metre height and tilted at 60 degrees, for example. By using an eyeglass case under speakers and lashing straps, it can be a compromise, but not quite on the safe side.

It’s often said that competition is beneficial to the end consumer. However, when competitors come up with quite different approaches, finding a middle ground is not exactly easy. This is also the case for creating a “single unified layout” needed to do all several immersive formats, such as Dolby Atmos and Auro 3D, at home.

Now, one can notice the versatility offered by Realiser A16 in getting various virtual speaker layouts than that for real speakers.

The Dolby Atmos installation guidelines specify that the left front height and right front height speakers should be mounted on the front wall (instead of on the ceiling) in line with an approximately 30 degrees horizontal from the centre-front reference. This places the left front height and right front height speakers directly above the left and right speakers.

The last sentence is not quite true. Manufacturers recommend that their speakers to be placed at certain distances from walls to mitigate acoustical issues. So, if the front height speakers are mounted on the front wall and the front left and right speakers (at ear level) are at some distance from the wall behind them, then those speakers are not quite vertically stacked.

On the other hand, by using properly designed speaker stands, owners of Realiser A16 are able to measure the left front and right front height speakers directly above the left front and right speakers.

Just as there are installation guidelines for Dolby Atmos, there are similar guidelines for Auro 3D. An excerpt: “The Auro-3D® format is a hybrid format, which uses both channel- and object-based technology (the latter called AuroMax®), depending on the final goal. In order to create a proper immersive experience using object-based technology, typically more than 20 individually amplified speakers are required.”

So, in conclusion, sometimes it is necessary to find intermediate or blending qualities among various possibilities. In other words, a certain amount of compromise is necessary.

I have those stands myself, and they;re really rock solid. The base is one foot on a side and heavy guage steel. They aren't tipping over unless someone hits them hard. But if you're worried, you can always put weight one the bass for more stability. I recommend them b/c they usable in a living room for surrounds. Those tripods would never work in any living room with any wife I've ever been married to,. And if you lash the speakers front to back--with sturdy straps, angling them downward should not be a problem. I have already done this once in capturing 6 height channels with my LS 50s, a not light speaker, and I had no issues whatsoever, So it's not theory.

 

[Sanctuary]

This might have already been asked before, but I haven't seen the answer yet, and didn't really think about it too much until last year anyway.
Does anyone know if the "Look left, look right" matters in the slightest for anything other than using head tracking? Do either of the Realisers use the right and left information to calculate fixed position listening as well?

If it doesn't matter, and simply looking straight ahead during that request will not negatively affect the positional cues, I think I will end up doing a few recordings that way with my A8 once I can secure a good room in a few months. It would save time having to redo each personalization because a person's head doesn't end up in exactly the same starting position each time after their head turns. I know the head tracking unit is supposed to make the illusion as realistic as possible, but I've never liked using the trackers on my headphones, and pretty much no one else that has tried mine out either cares for it much.

 

[sander99]

It would save time having to redo each personalization because a person's head doesn't end up in exactly the same starting position each time after their head turns.

I don't understand your logic here. All speakers that you measure in one go will first be measured for the first lookangle. Then all will be measured for the next lookangle. etc. So you never have to move back to the starting position. Until you start the measurement for the next few speakers. But then you would have moved anyway to make the required changes, or even use other head positions anyway (in the case that you use speakers in a fixed position and move yourself relative to the speakers). Except when someone else moves the speakers and changes the connections and you sit with your head in the same position during the complete process.
Apart from that: it really wouldn't matter much if some of the speakers are measured one or two degrees differently.

 

[Richter Di]

Question:
Did anyone with a 16 channel version (APM89L variant) A16 try to update to the new firmware 2.0? @audiohobbit maybe?
I tried to do this for the owner of the A16 that I borrowed last year and got the wrong version numbers for the APM board and the HDMI board.
I got APM firmware rev: v2.2.5 8901 Jul instead of v2.2.6 8909 Oct
plus HDMI firmware rev: v56.46.15 instead of v56.46.40
I am not so worried about the HDMI version number because the release notes don't say you have to check that, but it does say to check the APM version so that does worry me!
To be save I reverted back to 1.98.

Anyone else had similar results?
Anyone else got the right numbers (or at least the right number for the APM board)?

[Edit: actually, re-reading the release notes they don't say to check the APM number but "the APM firmware will show ...", but I am still worried.]

My results after the update are mixed.
Like you
I got APM firmware rev: v2.2.5 8901 Jul instead of v2.2.6 8909 Oct
but I got the HDMI firmware rev: v56.46.40 and not like you v56.46.15

 

[Richter Di]

Did anyone try the new Apple music Dolby Atmos via eg. an iPad Pro with an camera adapter to HDMI to the Smyth Realiser A16?

So, yes it works.



But sadly only for one song. Then an error occurs.
To try it you have to start in the music app settings with Dolby Atmos off and then switch it on to always. Then the song just playing will switch to 5 channels.

 

[Sanctuary]

I don't understand your logic here. All speakers that you measure in one go will first be measured for the first lookangle. Then all will be measured for the next lookangle. etc. So you never have to move back to the starting position. Until you start the measurement for the next few speakers. But then you would have moved anyway to make the required changes, or even use other head positions anyway (in the case that you use speakers in a fixed position and move yourself relative to the speakers). Except when someone else moves the speakers and changes the connections and you sit with your head in the same position during the complete process.
Apart from that: it really wouldn't matter much if some of the speakers are measured one or two degrees differently.

Huh, you know what? I wonder if my issue was a symptom of just having to use a 5.1 receiver when doing a 7.1 PRIR and needing to use the "ALL" mode. I have a really nice Marantz receiver coming, so I'll be able to see if that was the actual problem in a few days. With the way I previously had to do it, the A8 would not record each look angle for all of the speakers in one go before having us move our heads left or right. The way it was working for me was with every individual speaker. So for the center, we would look center, then have to look left, then have to look right, then it would move to the FR and we would have to be centered, then look left and then look right etc. I was previously having to record 5.1 that way and then get up, and then change the output cable of the A8 for the rear surrounds before finalizing and saving. So do you now understand why I was questioning whether or not doing anything other than remaining center throughout the entire procedure, even when it was wanting use to look left or right mattered? In the end, it seems like needing to use that mode will be unnecessary anyway for future PRIRs.

The PRIRs that I ended up doing were not meant to be perfect "one and done" recordings either, they were primarily just me getting used to the procedure so that at a later date after I purchased the better gear I was intending to use, with a much better room, I wouldn't have to fumble around with the learning process, wasting time during that day. I did however want something that was good enough to show what the A8/A16 was capable of to myself, and friends.

I managed to get a nearly flawless 7.1 PRIR, but the front right ended up sounding "off" (like 85% accurate, but when the rest are 100% it doesn't sound perfect). There were many other problems though with other PRIRs, and I think it might have been due to the old Denon receiver I was using at the time. With some of my recordings, the sound level of the rears or center would be around 10% - 20% of the volume as the rest of the speakers, and no amount of gain from the A8 menu would fix that during playback. I even contacted Mike Smyth to see if he could give me any insight into what the issue could be, but even he couldn't really manage to find a solution. I told him exactly what I was doing when having to use multiple speakers to get a 7.1 PRIR and how I was calibrating each time, and he said that everything I had written sounded correct, but that for some reason it wasn't working as it should. He also said that really the Center, FL+FR were the most important speakers to get, so to concentrate on getting those right. I had assumed that was the case anyway, but it was nice to hear it recited from an expert.

Hell, this is even in the instructions:

Through the speakers an announcer will say “Look centre.” The listener should look straight ahead with head level (not up or down, 0° elevation), and keep head fixed while each speaker is sounded in turn. In this basic procedure, do not look at the centre speaker if it is positioned above or below a screen; look straight ahead.

That's even demonstrated in the old video where Mike is recording a PRIR for someone.



It must be that I got so used to using the "ALL" mode that even when I did my 5.1 specific PRIRs we were still having to turn our heads for each speaker. So what is the default mode when wanting to capture all speakers at once then, including a sub? Does the A8/A16 just default to a basic recording mode each time it's turned on? What if you had to save the system config? I thought it kept your last selected recording mode when doing that.

 

[sander99]

It must be that I got so used to using the "ALL" mode that even when I did my 5.1 specific PRIRs we were still having to turn our heads for each speaker. So what is the default mode when wanting to capture all speakers at once then, including a sub? Does the A8/A16 just default to a basic recording mode each time it's turned on? What if you had to save the system config? I thought it kept your last selected recording mode when doing that.

The A8 and A16 are very different with regards to possibilities and user interface for PRIR measurements. Most that I know about the A8 is what I read in the A8 manual, and I didn't study that as well as the A16 manual.

I am not sure (maybe an A8 owner can correct me if i am wrong) but I think it is not so much the fact that you used the ALL method, but the way you used it.
On page 32 of the A8 manual they show the following menu:

1(L )ON 2(R )ON
3(C )ON 4(SW )ON
5(LS )ON 6(RS )ON
7(LB )OFF 8(RB )OFF

As I understand it with the ALL method you can measure all speakers in one go if you select them all in above menu. Or select 6 of them to measure 5.1 channels and afterwards select one or both of the others to be measured in a seperate measurement step. My guess would be that for each group of selected speakers all of those speakers would be measured while looking center, then all while looking left, etc.(?) So maybe you selected them all one by one instead of first selecting 6 channels together? Just guessing here. Otherwise I don't know, I just don't know the A8 that well.