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Smyth Research Realiser A16

Discussion in 'High-end Audio Forum' started by jgazal, May 7, 2016.
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  1. sander99
    @Got the Shakes, you would already make me very happy if you would only just check if you can switch "Look-elev" on in the "Config look angles menu" (see page 68 of the manual).
    And this is really very important for everyone who is interested in vertical head tracking: if you are gonna pay a lot of money for a high end PRIR measurement in a studio and don't already capture the up and down looking angles you won't be able to apply vertical head tracking to this PRIR if and when Smyth implements the vertical head tracking algorithm itself at a later date. So if it is already possible to capture them - which this menu item suggests - it would be such a pity if someone doesn't know about it and doesn't use it while spending money and/or effort on PRIR measurements.
  2. Got the Shakes
    Yes the A16 will allow you to toggle it on. I just went into the menu and tried it.
  3. sander99
    Great! Thank you very much!
  4. Dixter
    I don't know if this will ever be the case but what I would like to see the A16 evolve into is me being able to take the A16 to any venue.. it could be a personal home, movie theater, concert hall or studio.. ect..ect... and be able to hand off a USB memory stick loaded with sweep files to be played back on the system being recorded... me with the ear mics in place and my body situated in the sweet spot of the venue and just hit the record and be done with it...
  5. sander99
    Even one step further: not even having to take the A16 with you, just record the signal of the in ear mics with a digital pocket recorder (or your phone!), later at home put an sd card with the recording in your A16 and apply the "generate PRIR" function that Stephen Smyth once mentioned on the kickstarter comments page.
  6. Dixter
    yes.... that would be fantastic...
    yes... that would be fantastic... and doable I think...
  7. castleofargh Contributor
    the test signal would need to be a single track with all channels, so the respective timing delays are known between each speakers. or I'm guessing with some extra steps we could use a simple stereo source and stereo test track, then run it through speaker 1 and 2, then repeat with 2 and 3, 3 and 4, etc. so we can still manage to end up with the delays between all speakers.
    seems doable.
  8. blenheim
    You could use the PRIR from the SoCal CAnJam for Atmos playback, even if the condition and the room were not great at least it is your personal measurement and better than nothing until you get a chance to do an Atmos measurement in a great sounding room. I flew to LA for SoCal CAnJam And did the demo with the A16 because I was afraid that I would have trouble to find a good Atmos setup to record. I wanted at least one Atmos PRIR even if the room is not great. James assured me that they will ship that PRIR with the A16 and confirmed this by E-mail again a few month back. Although it will be a while I am a December 2017 pre-order.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  9. dsperber
    Great point.

    Also would allow me to compare the overall sound and balance of the CanJam room and equipment which was "completely real" and also measured through my own ears even if not fantastic acoustics, against a "hybrid virtual" room created was also suggested by @sander99 through a combination of my 7.1 AIX room PRIR for ear-level speakers with additional Atmos speakers added from one of the provided BRIR's, or as you now suggest even from the "real" additional speakers from my own CanJam Atmos PRIR.

    Very good suggestions. Definitely will provide something to play with.
  10. sander99
    Well, I was just describing the ultimate easy case, in extension to what Dixter talked about, how we hope it will once be: just one usb stick with the test sweeps for all channels (if this will ever be possible?), nothing to connect to the system under measurement, measurement (recording the sweeps, no need to take the A16 with you) in one go, be finished in less than 5 minutes and go home to apply the "generate PRIR" function (also less than 5 minutes).
    Exactly the same situation as with the asynchronous PRIR measurement. No new problems here. The A16 would for example not know the difference between an actual real time measurement, when playing the sweep disc on the system under measurement - note the A16 can be completely disconnected from that system - and inputting the mic signals, or have the recorded signals from the mics "played back" into the A16 mic input from a recorder. But maybe because this last thing is a bit tricky hardware wise, and involves unnecessary DA/AD conversion, Stephen Smyth once was talking about a "PRIR generation function" that could read such a recording from an SD card. This "PRIR generation function" would do exactly the same thing as it would with the signal coming in over the mic inputs, only taking its input from a file on the SD card instead. The sweep tracks for asynchronous measurement may also contain special extra signals that help the A16 with proper timing everything.

    Edit: from the kickstarter comments page (August 26, 2017):
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
    castleofargh likes this.
  11. esimms86
    How cool would it be if the Smyths could work out an arrangement for this place(click on “Studios” and then select studio C):


    Would definitely be worth a trip to Nashville for some of us on the east coast of the U.S.
    Evshrug likes this.
  12. Eich1eeF
    You don't have to wait for the Smyths, contact the studio yourself and ask if they can route 16 analog channels to the individual speakers (analog input is entirely optional on the Avid MTRX), and inquire about their cost per hour. Then come back here to the forum and find people (at least one with an actual A16) to join you.
    Evshrug and phoenixdogfan like this.
  13. phoenixdogfan
  14. phoenixdogfan
    I've actually called Blackbird Studios. They gave me the name of the studio manager and his e-mail. He'll be in Monday. I do not currently have a Realizer. If I make the arrangements and share equally in the expense, is there someone who would be willing to make a PRIR for me? I live in Nashville.
    Evshrug likes this.
  15. dsperber
    Fantastic find.

    I'm in if its possible, ALMOST regardless of cost.

    Find out what the cost is by the hour, for a whole day, and for a few days. See if the rates vary by booking duration. And of course is it possible to feed 16 analog input channels. And how far in advance do we need to schedule it. This would provide a base cost for our group usage, obviously to be divided by however many of us would be willing to travel to Nashville for this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that is EXACTLY what we all dream about. Perhaps AIX but for Dolby Atmos.

    Also, my own STRONG RECOMMENDATION is to see if arrangements can be made (I could take on this particular assignment) for Lorr Kramer to be "booked" for a block of days (paying his expenses as well) to be the "calibration engineer" for all of us who want to get a "measurement session" orchestrated by the most experienced "measurer" around. You need to have somebody else insert the microphones in your ears precisely and correctly. You don't want to move, except during the "look center/left/right" sequences. You also don't want to breathe hard, or cause any rustling or shuffling of wires or cables or clothing, because in a high-end studio environment the sensitive calibration microphones in your ears will possibly pick up those small ambient noises and distract from the "pure" audio experience to get the best possible PRIR. And you want to be sure the microphones are still perfectly inserted when you place your headphones over your ears to complete the HPEQ measurement.

    This is what transpired when the Smyth lab and staff were here in Camarillo CA back in the 2000's during the development of the A8. Lorr was also here in LA and made the time/rental arrangements for the several locations around LA that we got access to and paid for. We brought our own headphones and amps to the site in order to also get HPEQ's made (if we wanted that also managed by Lorr), and Lorr brought his A8 and all cables for connections to the room electronics. Again with somebody else ensuring the microphones were properly and perfectly inserted in our ears while we tried to sit perfectly still and not move or breathe during the relatively longer PRIR measurement process as well as during the relatively short HPEQ measurement process.

    My own preference (which Lorr accommodated) for the A8 PRIR process was to have "long slow sweeps" repeated four times for each speaker and then averaged by the A8. My own feeling is that this tends to reduce-out the potential distorting effect of any random small noises that somehow might get picked up during the longer PRIR measurement process and thereby trust that the resulting PRIR most accurately reflects the room's true pure audio characteristics. I don't know if it works the same way with the A16, but I'm sure Lorr would have insights. The 8-speaker x center/left/right total PRIR measurement takes much longer if each sweep is slower and you perform each sweep four times, but to my thinking it is well worth this one-time-only extra time to get a "near-perfect PRIR".

    Lorr arrived early with his A8 and cables, and working with the studio manager set everything up beforehand and tested it. We each were then brought in for our "appointments", placed us in the "sweet spot" with microphones properly inserted in our ears, and then Lorr initiated our measurement sessions "like a maestro". Actually once started the A8 itself was in command, and Lorr sat down 100% motionless until it was over. In my opinion this is why the resulting PRIR's and HPEQ's for a given room and headphone/amp are as good as they can possibly be... because Lorr is that "second person" needed to do the "handling".

    If he would be willing to do this, we should fly him to Nashville and pay him for however long this takes for however many of us are willing to participate and share total expenses. He might have his own A16 to travel with, but if not we only need one of us who does have an A16 to bring it to Nashville so that we could all share it for this purpose, and each come away with microSD cards containing our own set of PRIR/HPEQ files to be used with our own A16's back home.

    I'm in, if you wanted to start a "sign-up list" to get a body count so that we might then get a feel for what this might actually cost each of us who participate.

    NOTE: that Blackbird Studio C does not have a display/TV screen in it. So while this is technically not required for an audio-only PRIR measurement and the finishing-up A/B speaker/headphone comparison test, it is obviously very helpful for PRIR-confirmation and demonstration purposes to have some way of playing a Dolby Atmos BluRay movie through the just created PRIR/HPEQ.

    We should inquire about the possiblity of having (or someone bringing) an Oppo 203 and 4K HDTV moved into the space for use during the sessions.
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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