Singxer SU-2
Feb 8, 2020 at 6:55 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 41

NoNameNPC

New Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Posts
45
Likes
6
Location
Russian Federation
So, this is new converter from Singxer with 10Mhz input clock.
With support DSD1024 and Accusilicon low jitter clocks.

I don't own it yet but interesting what Voltage reg. they use as I see there is three voltage reg., just want replace them with Sparkos labs.
Maybe someone get one from https://www.magnahifi.com or https://shenzhenaudio.com?

singxer-su-2-usb-digital-ifnterface-768khz-dsd1024-spdif-aesebu-i2s-hdmi-004.jpg
 
Feb 17, 2020 at 11:21 AM Post #3 of 41

Benny-x

1000+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Posts
1,281
Likes
324
Location
Canada/China
I saw this on Taobao (Chinese Amazon+eBay), but couldn't find any reviews for it out there. From what I remember, it's priced btween the SU-1 and SU-6? I'm reaching the limits of my memory, but doesn't it have a less complicated design than the SU-6? Which makes me wonder why not just buy the SU-6 when it already has a strong track record?
 
Feb 20, 2020 at 11:40 AM Post #4 of 41

NoNameNPC

New Head-Fier
Joined
Feb 10, 2019
Posts
45
Likes
6
Location
Russian Federation
But SU-2 support DSD1024, SU-2 have ACCUSILICON AS-318B, SU-6 have CCHD-957. I read datasheet and they almost similar.
I write to Sparko he say I can change voltage reg. by SS1117-3.3v
And SU-2 have input for clock generator for 44.1khz, I read about I2S and as I understand SCK is signal from clock? Or maybe I am wrong. Can external clock improve sound quality?
pulseview-i2s.png
 
Last edited:
Jun 9, 2020 at 6:46 PM Post #5 of 41

pichu

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Posts
517
Likes
140
Location
Tampa, Florida
just sold this and gonna miss her! Oh the pain of having two expensive hobbies...
 
Last edited:
Feb 14, 2021 at 3:55 AM Post #6 of 41

Roasty

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Posts
3,008
Likes
5,538
Location
near the equator
Anyone using su-2 over the su-6?
There is also a kitsune su-2..
I have the su-6 and thinking of trying another ddc for a secondary setup. Either su-2 or I suppose denafrips iris.
 
Feb 14, 2021 at 5:11 AM Post #7 of 41

b0bb

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Posts
1,557
Likes
783
Anyone using su-2 over the su-6?
There is also a kitsune su-2..
I have the su-6 and thinking of trying another ddc for a secondary setup. Either su-2 or I suppose denafrips iris.
I have both and the SU-1.
SU-2 replaces the SU-1, SU-6 performance is in a different class, better regulators, higher quality digital isolators, crystal oven etc
Additional observations of the SU-2 below
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/l-k...van-dammes-double-impact.840938/post-16173186
 
Feb 16, 2021 at 1:11 AM Post #8 of 41

dnnaudio

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Posts
122
Likes
24
Hi b0bb if you don’t mind can you give rough idea on pure sonics stock SU1 vs stock SU2 vs stock SU6, like from a scale 1 to 10. I am on the fence between SU2 and SU6 not so much for price but I am thinking as SU2 is a very new design utilizing latest tech this may actually approach or even surpass the SU6.

I have both and the SU-1.
SU-2 replaces the SU-1, SU-6 performance is in a different class, better regulators, higher quality digital isolators, crystal oven etc
Additional observations of the SU-2 below
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/l-k...van-dammes-double-impact.840938/post-16173186
 
Feb 16, 2021 at 3:38 AM Post #9 of 41

b0bb

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Posts
1,557
Likes
783
Hi b0bb if you don’t mind can you give rough idea on pure sonics stock SU1 vs stock SU2 vs stock SU6, like from a scale 1 to 10.
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the best
SU1 --> 2
SU2 --> 4
SU6 --> 7

SU2 fixes the harshness overly bright presentation of the SU1. SU2 presentation is much warmer and less fatiguing than the SU1
SU2 imaging is a narrower less focused version of the SU6, it drops a lot of microdetails, percussion impact is flat compared to the SU6.
SU2 imaging is pleasant but not accurate, quite hazy compared to the SU6

but I am thinking as SU2 is a very new design utilizing latest tech this may actually approach or even surpass the SU6.

Not from where I am standing, the replacement for the SU2 needs to have a 100MHz or better master clock input to compete with the equal footing with the SU6.

10MHz made sense in the days of 44kHz PCM where the bitclock was 1.4MHz, with DSD1024 we are looking at 45MHz.
Modern DACs use masterclocks of 100MHz or more.

The choice of 10MHz external master clock is a major oversight, the clock output needs to be multiplied 3X to be useful for DSD512 processing, 5X for DSD1024
Jitter increases 3X as well, this 9dBc, this pretty eliminates its low noise advantage, this makes no better than some of the off the shelf oscillator.
With a 15dBc jitter increase, the master clock will be worse than the internal reference when processing DSD1024

Something that is often overlooked is the loss incurred when going to 2 boxes, there is a transmitter/receiver pair the will introduce jitter into the clock.
A external box Masterclock performance needs to be 2-3x better just to match the one built into the DDC because of these losses.

The new design is very complex with reference clocks controlling the behavior of the actual clocks.
In practice the actual clocks can get close but never quite equal the reference clocks.

The older design in the SU1 and SU6 is simpler and higher performance as it uses the reference clocks directly.
su2_clocks.png

I suspect Singxer created the SU2 to compete with the some of the Gustard DDCs and cash in on the hype surrounding external 10MHz clocks.
 
Last edited:
Feb 16, 2021 at 3:47 AM Post #10 of 41

Roasty

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Posts
3,008
Likes
5,538
Location
near the equator
@b0bb whats a 10 for you?
 
Feb 16, 2021 at 4:13 AM Post #11 of 41

b0bb

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Posts
1,557
Likes
783
@b0bb whats a 10 for you?
Does not exist yet.

The SU6 I modified to use lower noise GMR isolators plus disconnected USB shield ground is about a 8.5.
Straight swap for the noisy TI parts, this is something I would like to see in the SU6 replacement
Nearly eliminated the edgy character of the SU6.
These are expensive but I will gladly pay a price premium here.

I would really like to see a SU6 like unit without all the extra inputs and outputs, just 1 USB input and 1HDMI I2S output.
Sonore took the SU1, tossed out the useless junk and produced the ultracompact Ultradigital DDC.
Get rid of the unused parts and they stop adding noise as idle but powered electronics is not noiseless.

Option for OCXO clocks for the reclocker with 90/98MHz reference clocks, AudioGD has already started doing this.

Provide an individual voltage regulator for every chip on the board. LKS did this with their internal Amanero interface and it comes close to matching the SU6 with minor mods.

Finally, fix the USB shield grounding arrangement, take a hint from Sonore on how they handled the grounding of the USB shield.
 
Last edited:
Feb 16, 2021 at 5:13 AM Post #12 of 41

dnnaudio

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Posts
122
Likes
24
Thanks b0bb excellent comparison of the SUx. This pretty much convinced me to go w/ SU6 and will just endure its long break in. Agree w/ you for a simplified SU6 w/ just the essential inputs and outputs that’s probably going to perform incredible.

My DAC is an Accuphase CDP DAC section w/c only have SPDIF RCA and toslink for digital input. Source is laptop. W/ the SU6 and using RCA or toslink do you think I will lose a lot of sonic quality compared to using its preferred I2S connection?
 
Feb 16, 2021 at 4:06 PM Post #13 of 41

b0bb

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Oct 15, 2014
Posts
1,557
Likes
783
Thanks b0bb excellent comparison of the SUx. This pretty much convinced me to go w/ SU6 and will just endure its long break in. Agree w/ you for a simplified SU6 w/ just the essential inputs and outputs that’s probably going to perform incredible.

My DAC is an Accuphase CDP DAC section w/c only have SPDIF RCA and toslink for digital input. Source is laptop. W/ the SU6 and using RCA or toslink do you think I will lose a lot of sonic quality compared to using its preferred I2S connection?

I think the benefit of I2S starts to become apparent with material created with the higher sample rates beyond 192kHz all other things being equal*
I2S and SPDIF each have their unique problems and challenges, in your case the the SPDIF output makes the most sense.

*upsampling and filtering requires more work and resources as the rates are increase, if that is not accounted for the end result may not justify the effort.
 
Last edited:
Feb 18, 2021 at 10:54 AM Post #15 of 41

pichu

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Posts
517
Likes
140
Location
Tampa, Florida
Sort of on topic and sort of off. How much is a Kitsune Spring 2 Level 2 going for rn used?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top