[cellarbro]

  I just got my protalbe amp from onkyo last week Onkyo DAC-HA200
 
I got better bass with it than my iPhone 6 plus and richer sound but still not like my AV receiver from Onkyo HT-R593
 
When I connect my 846 to the AV receiver i got warmer sound and way better rich deep bass that i like the most  ( it's like having a subwoofer inside my ears )
 
The real problem here is the mids are harsh and i can't listen to my music on higher volume because of the harshness on the mids in the vocals or some instrument 
 
For example the song The Chainsmokers - Don't Let Me Down (Illenium Remix) in this song the vocals are so harsh especially on 0:35 when she said ( i need you, i need you...) omg so annoying and painful to my ears

 
I tried the black filter it reduces the harshness but its still there
 
If you will suggest EQ , am using apple music and their EQ sucks
 
 
My SE846 sounds amazing and the bass is the best bass and deepest one I've ever heard  but i can't enjoy it because the harsh mids hurting my ears on higher volume.

 
It could be your set up. I plugged the SE846 into my amp and they lost the dynamics and didn't sound as good plugged straight into the phone. The overall sound in general just sounded better plugged straight into my MacBook or iPhone. I dont have a portable DAP besides my iPhone so its what I use. I am like blown away sometimes with the sound I hear directly out of a phone.

 

[Ungaro]

Don't play it loud.

 
 
I like it loud sometimes and it's ok to raise the volume on my AV receiver without any painful mids
 

   
It could be your set up. I plugged the SE846 into my amp and they lost the dynamics and didn't sound as good plugged straight into the phone. The overall sound in general just sounded better plugged straight into my MacBook or iPhone. I dont have a portable DAP besides my iPhone so its what I use. I am like blown away sometimes with the sound I hear directly out of a phone.

 
 
I was using my SE846 on my iPhone before and i was amazed by its sound but after i use external amp the sound got richer
 
Now i don't like it straight from my iPhone anymore

 

[twice tzuyu]

   
 
I like it loud sometimes and it's ok to raise the volume on my AV receiver without any painful mids
 
 
 
I was using my SE846 on my iPhone before and i was amazed by its sound but after i use external amp the sound got richer
 
Now i don't like it straight from my iPhone anymore

 
 

   
It could be your set up. I plugged the SE846 into my amp and they lost the dynamics and didn't sound as good plugged straight into the phone. The overall sound in general just sounded better plugged straight into my MacBook or iPhone. I dont have a portable DAP besides my iPhone so its what I use. I am like blown away sometimes with the sound I hear directly out of a phone.

It depends on the DAP and AMP and how well they pair with the 846. Not just simply using an dacamp. Keep in mind that the 846 is a very sensitive iem.

 

[Ungaro]

   
 
It depends on the DAP and AMP and how well they pair with the 846. Not just simply using an dacamp. Keep in mind that the 846 is a very sensitive iem.

i don't know exactly what sensitive means ?
 
should i use low impedance output to have the best sound with it?
 
and i have Low and High gain on my portable amp is it different  in the sound other than the loudness ?

 

[Roen]

i don't know exactly what sensitive means ?

should i use low impedance output to have the best sound with it?

and i have Low and High gain on my portable amp is it different  in the sound other than the loudness ?

What's the output impedance of your amp? check your spec sheet.

 

[Quadfather]

[COLOR=008000]I just got my protalbe amp from onkyo last week[/COLOR] Onkyo DAC-HA200

[COLOR=008000]I got better bass with it than my iPhone 6 plus and richer sound but still not like my AV receiver from[/COLOR] Onkyo HT-R593

[COLOR=008000]When I connect my 846 to the AV receiver i got warmer sound and way better rich deep bass that i like the most  ( it's like having a subwoofer inside my ears )[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]The real problem here is the mids are harsh and i can't listen to my music on higher volume because of the harshness on the mids in the vocals or some instrument [/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]For example the song[/COLOR] [COLOR=0000FF]The Chainsmokers - Don't Let Me Down (Illenium Remix)[/COLOR] [COLOR=008000]in this song the vocals are so harsh[/COLOR] [COLOR=008000]especially on 0:35 when she said ( i need you, i need you...) omg so annoying and painful to my ears :basshead: [/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]I tried the black filter it reduces the harshness but its still there[/COLOR]

[COLOR=008000]If you will suggest EQ , am using apple music and their EQ sucks[/COLOR]


[COLOR=FF0000]My SE846 sounds amazing and the bass is the best bass and deepest one I've ever heard  but i can't enjoy it because the harsh mids hurting my ears on higher volume.[/COLOR]

Sorry you are having problems. I absolutely love the Shure SE846Ss on my Questyle QP1R.

 

[castleofargh]

there are 2 standard aspects to this:
-if your source has high impedance, the signature of the 846 changes following the impedance curve of the IEM, so source of higher impedance will make the low end louder and the 5khz area recessed. it can amount to several db depending on the source's impedance. that's a personal preference and such a change alone can feel like a very different perceived sound. most likely what's happening with the AV receiver and the louder bass.
 
- the amplifier section of whatever you use with the IEM was built to work nominally under a given set of conditions. the issue here is that the 846's impedance goes as low as 5ohm. imagine the electricity flowing, the impedance of the IEM is what opposes the flow, some of that energy is used to move the drivers, some will be dissipated as heat, and in the end the amp provided energy to be used by the IEM. when there is almost no impedance like with the 846, there is nothing to stop the flow of current. almost none of the energy is used/dissipated by the IEM, and it all comes back to the amp section of the device. the situation is much closer to a short circuit than it is to typical headphone/IEM driving. while there is little risk of something melting in the amp from such a tiny power(because the IEM is so sensitive you never push the voltage anywhere significant), it doesn't mean the amp section enjoys the ride. it can go from the device getting hot, and the objective measurements going down(increased crosstalk, increased distortions), to simply sounding like something is very wrong.
sadly there is very little ways to know how a device will behave with the shure because nobody measures devices into such low impedances. you're lucky if you can find a device measured into 16ohm. so something as crazy as less than 5ohm around 5khz like the shure has, it's a gamble each time. and it's very possible that the sound you don't like with your AV receiver comes from significant distortions in the 5khz area where the impedance is so low. if that's the problem, rising the volume level could make it audibly worst.
 
 
 
you could try to get the signature without the distortions from another source using some EQ, for the low end alone, you can probably replicate the effect of you receiver using a low shelf like this


the amplitude would depend on the impedance of the device so you'd have to try a few values, and the bass boost should start slowly going down a little before 100hz, but then again you might want to set the slope to your taste.
 
an alternative would be to get an impedance adapter. find a fellow DIYer who would do it for you, or maybe you can still get such things online, I bought some a few years back that were supposed to be er4 to er4s adapters, and after contacting the guy, he agreed to do any resistance I wished for. it's very basic stuff, one resistor in series for each channel, the plug is most of the cost.
anyway if you can find out the impedance of your AV receiver(on the headphone out!!!!!!!!) and the output impedance of your actual device, you could get such a resistor plug to compensate the difference and get your bass like it is on the AV receiver. I know that's a all lot of conditions to meet, but just to say that it is doable.

 

[AndrewH13]

Sorry you are having problems. I absolutely love the Shure SE846Ss on my Questyle QP1R.

Best combo by far, I've found for them!

 

[Quadfather]

Best combo by far, I've found for them!

My Audio-Technica ATH-MSR7GMs are also great cans if the music isn't hi-hat or cymbal heavy. If so, the Shure SE846s and Shure SRH1540s are more relaxed in high frequency. Still good detail, but tamer and non fatiguing.

 

[Ungaro]

What's the output impedance of your amp? check your spec sheet.

Supported headphone impedance. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8–600 Ω
 
As it says on the manual.
 

Sorry you are having problems. I absolutely love the Shure SE846Ss on my Questyle QP1R.

it's not really a problem because it only happens at higher volume
 
QP1R is 1000$

and i haven't tried it before so it will be wasting of money if i didn't like the sound signature
 

  there are 2 standard aspects to this:
-if your source has high impedance, the signature of the 846 changes following the impedance curve of the IEM, so source of higher impedance will make the low end louder and the 5khz area recessed. it can amount to several db depending on the source's impedance. that's a personal preference and such a change alone can feel like a very different perceived sound. most likely what's happening with the AV receiver and the louder bass.
 
- the amplifier section of whatever you use with the IEM was built to work nominally under a given set of conditions. the issue here is that the 846's impedance goes as low as 5ohm. imagine the electricity flowing, the impedance of the IEM is what opposes the flow, some of that energy is used to move the drivers, some will be dissipated as heat, and in the end the amp provided energy to be used by the IEM. when there is almost no impedance like with the 846, there is nothing to stop the flow of current. almost none of the energy is used/dissipated by the IEM, and it all comes back to the amp section of the device. the situation is much closer to a short circuit than it is to typical headphone/IEM driving. while there is little risk of something melting in the amp from such a tiny power(because the IEM is so sensitive you never push the voltage anywhere significant), it doesn't mean the amp section enjoys the ride. it can go from the device getting hot, and the objective measurements going down(increased crosstalk, increased distortions), to simply sounding like something is very wrong.
sadly there is very little ways to know how a device will behave with the shure because nobody measures devices into such low impedances. you're lucky if you can find a device measured into 16ohm. so something as crazy as less than 5ohm around 5khz like the shure has, it's a gamble each time. and it's very possible that the sound you don't like with your AV receiver comes from significant distortions in the 5khz area where the impedance is so low. if that's the problem, rising the volume level could make it audibly worst.
 
 
 
you could try to get the signature without the distortions from another source using some EQ, for the low end alone, you can probably replicate the effect of you receiver using a low shelf like this


the amplitude would depend on the impedance of the device so you'd have to try a few values, and the bass boost should start slowly going down a little before 100hz, but then again you might want to set the slope to your taste.
 
an alternative would be to get an impedance adapter. find a fellow DIYer who would do it for you, or maybe you can still get such things online, I bought some a few years back that were supposed to be er4 to er4s adapters, and after contacting the guy, he agreed to do any resistance I wished for. it's very basic stuff, one resistor in series for each channel, the plug is most of the cost.
anyway if you can find out the impedance of your AV receiver(on the headphone out!!!!!!!!) and the output impedance of your actual device, you could get such a resistor plug to compensate the difference and get your bass like it is on the AV receiver. I know that's a all lot of conditions to meet, but just to say that it is doable.

 
 
so what i can under stand from your first point is that higher impedance amps will increase the lows ?
 
Am not really feeling any distortion in the mids or any frequency,and  is it dangerous to run my SE846 on my AV receiver ?
 
I actually don't really know the output impedance for my AV receiver even in the manual or the website it's not written.

 

[Roen]

Supported headphone impedance. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .8–600 Ω

As it says on the manual.

it's not really a problem because it only happens at higher volume

QP1R is 1000$ and i haven't tried it before so it will be wasting of money if i didn't like the sound signature



so what i can under stand from your first point is that higher impedance amps will increase the lows ?

Am not really feeling any distortion in the mids or any frequency,and  is it dangerous to run my SE846 on my AV receiver ?

I actually don't really know the output impedance for my AV receiver even in the manual or the website it's not written.

Not the supported headphone impedance, the amp headphone output impedance. Should be one number, not a range.

 

[Whazzzup]

The effects of impedance mismatch are dubious to describe as laws of frequency specific distortions, although bloated bass and thin mids are often described as the result, sometimes noise in the black. So most  dac amps are low impedance in the portable field cause IEM are generally low impedance. The quality of the dac amp and its conversion of data is far more predictive of potential sq, type of chips used ( if they are used), flip flops, wta filters etc... This gets more technical and ultimately tests between these vehicles and the  iem/cans must be done to indicate preference. 

 

[Godel Von]

For me, Se846 is more melodious than T8IE MK2

 

[castleofargh]

  1/so what i can under stand from your first point is that higher impedance amps will increase the lows ?
 
2/Am not really feeling any distortion in the mids or any frequency,and  is it dangerous to run my SE846 on my AV receiver ?
 
3/I actually don't really know the output impedance for my AV receiver even in the manual or the website it's not written.

1/for this IEM in particular yes. (it depends on the impedance curve of the IEM)
2/no it's not, it might not measure well, but let's say you're listening to your IEM at 100db (which is loud), the actual power used would be something like 0.25mW. so any damage seems very unlikely ^_^.
3/ sadly that's often the case. with a multimeter a resistor and the right plug, your could get a good idea of the value, but maybe that's not your kind of game.  otherwise you could try to find some resistor adapters like I mentioned for the etymotic er4, get a few different values, like maybe 3 or 5ohm, 30ohm and 100ohm, and just try what feels nice to you on your phone or whatever. but again, an EQ could probably do most of the work. with known impedance values it would be easier to estimate the ideal curve to copy the signature of your AV receiver, but maybe a little time and a nice parametric equalizer can lead you there too. at some point the real question is how hard do you want that sound? everything is possible when we're obsessed about achieving something

.
I've done more or less what I'm suggesting to you for other IEMs and other gears, I ended up buying a multimeter, plenty of cable and plugs, a soldering station, ADC, microphone to verify the results of my experiments directly from the IEM, and on the way I have to admit I have gone slightly mad a few times having to learn how to use all that crap. that's why I kind of insist on the EQ, it might not end up exactly like the sound from the receiver, but you might keep your sanity ^_^.
 

  The effects of impedance mismatch are dubious to describe as laws of frequency specific distortions, although bloated bass and thin mids are often described as the result, sometimes noise in the black. So most  dac amps are low impedance in the portable field cause IEM are generally low impedance. The quality of the dac amp and its conversion of data is far more predictive of potential sq, type of chips used ( if they are used), flip flops, wta filters etc... This gets more technical and ultimately tests between these vehicles and the  iem/cans must be done to indicate preference. 

agreed. at some point to know what a pairing will do, trying is the only way.  I believe the idea of bloated bass is a transfer from speakers, where it is the most expected impact from bad electrical damping on big heavy drivers which are what's typically used for bass and subs. but with headphones it's more case specific, and with IEMs, you can often add 150ohm and not notice any significant change aside from FR. the drivers are so small and well damped mechanically that they don't really care for good electric control.
but sure enough, testing a combo is the way to really know how it behaves. everything else is only prediction/hypothesis.

 

[Ungaro]

Not the supported headphone impedance, the amp headphone output impedance. Should be one number, not a range.

you mean this one?
 

 
 

  1/for this IEM in particular yes. (it depends on the impedance curve of the IEM)
2/no it's not, it might not measure well, but let's say you're listening to your IEM at 100db (which is loud), the actual power used would be something like 0.25mW. so any damage seems very unlikely ^_^.
3/ sadly that's often the case. with a multimeter a resistor and the right plug, your could get a good idea of the value, but maybe that's not your kind of game.  otherwise you could try to find some resistor adapters like I mentioned for the etymotic er4, get a few different values, like maybe 3 or 5ohm, 30ohm and 100ohm, and just try what feels nice to you on your phone or whatever. but again, an EQ could probably do most of the work. with known impedance values it would be easier to estimate the ideal curve to copy the signature of your AV receiver, but maybe a little time and a nice parametric equalizer can lead you there too. at some point the real question is how hard do you want that sound? everything is possible when we're obsessed about achieving something

.
I've done more or less what I'm suggesting to you for other IEMs and other gears, I ended up buying a multimeter, plenty of cable and plugs, a soldering station, ADC, microphone to verify the results of my experiments directly from the IEM, and on the way I have to admit I have gone slightly mad a few times having to learn how to use all that crap. that's why I kind of insist on the EQ, it might not end up exactly like the sound from the receiver, but you might keep your sanity ^_^.
 
agreed. at some point to know what a pairing will do, trying is the only way.  I believe the idea of bloated bass is a transfer from speakers, where it is the most expected impact from bad electrical damping on big heavy drivers which are what's typically used for bass and subs. but with headphones it's more case specific, and with IEMs, you can often add 150ohm and not notice any significant change aside from FR. the drivers are so small and well damped mechanically that they don't really care for good electric control.
but sure enough, testing a combo is the way to really know how it behaves. everything else is only prediction/hypothesis.

 
Thanks a lot for all that information
 
the reason i don't like the EQ because am listening always on my apple music and on my iPhone i don't like the EQ that they have and i can't make my own EQ on apple music songs
 
but i will try the EQ in the Onkyo HF player and compare it to my AVR