[csglinux]

Got to try the warmer filter today, it did make the difference I was looking for! Walked out with a pair of SE846's, very happy

Congrats buddy! Enjoy

 

[csglinux]

I made it quite clear that I wasn't talking about frequency response preference but pure from technical performance. I don't know what Campfire did, but it is on a higher level than what Shure has come up with.

But if you think the Shure SE846 has the same technical performance in terms of soundstage, details, seperation and so on .... then I suppose I am happy for you?

So where does that "technical performance" come from, assuming it has nothing whatsoever to do with FR and both IEMs are using the same drivers?

A particular preference, unique to you, doesn't necessarily classify one product as "technically superior", and it doesn't mean everybody else is going to share your preference, or even your experience. Example: your recent posts on the HD800S thread. I'm willing to believe that you hear better linear treble extension on your HD650. The problem starts when you claim that as a fact. (Measurements and everybody else on the forum disagreed with you.)

No, I don't own an Andromeda, because after hearing it many times, I made a conscious decision not to. But I'm happy you like it. Let's coexist buddy.

 

[ubs28]

Who cares were the technical performance comes from. I am pretty sure 99.9% of the Andromeda owners can confirm the better soundstage, seperation and details.

But like I said, if you think the Shure SE846 is up there with TOTL IEM’s like the Andromeda, then that is fine with me. Saves you $1000 buying an other IEM

 

[435279]

I had the W60, and the 846. If I were to choose one, it would be the W60.Without getting into sound differences, the W60 were very comfortable, and I never really got the perfect fit with the 846. but I sold both, when I heard the iSINE 20. My M300 have shipped, and am looking forward to comparing both.

So the ISINE 20 is better than both the others, I can understand that. The bit I don't get is why you sold both the others, I tend to use my se846 in noisy environments, the Audeze are not good at blocking external noise. I would have probably kept the se846 and sold the W60, but that would have been a difficult choice, which one to keep.

 

[csglinux]

Who cares were the technical performance comes from. I am pretty sure 99.9% of the Andromeda owners can confirm the better soundstage, seperation and details.

IMHO (and given that these IEMs share the same BA drivers), almost everything you're talking about revolves around the reproduction of fine-scale micro-detail. That also produces the instrument separation and the soundstage in your brain, as you're able to separate out the slight timing differences between the various instruments and the timing differences between the left and right ear. That's how we place sounds in 3D space. This means doing the best possible job of resolving sharp transients. And resolving sharp transients means doing the best possible job of resolving the higher frequencies. And I'll agree with you, the Andromedas do a better job in the higher frequencies. But one has to be willing to take a few hits, specifically: the slightly bloated mid-bass, the uncomfortable, boxy metallic housings and the unforgivably short, stubby nozzles, with all the ensuing fit and isolation problems. I'm not disagreeing with you about detail, soundstage, separation, etc. It's just that for me, the cons outweigh the pros. But for sure, I'd be the first to audition Andromeda 2 if they fixed those issues with the mid-bass and the ergonomics.

But like I said, if you think the Shure SE846 is up there with TOTL IEM’s like the Andromeda, then that is fine with me. Saves you $1000 buying an other IEM

Well, not really. Because there are plenty of other IEMs out there for me to waste my money on invest in I haven't yet found any singe IEM that works best in all situations.

 

[youngarthur]

So the ISINE 20 is better than both the others, I can understand that. The bit I don't get is why you sold both the others, I tend to use my se846 in noisy environments, the Audeze are not good at blocking external noise. I would have probably kept the se846 and sold the W60, but that would have been a difficult choice, which one to keep.

Luckily, I live on my own on the Scottish moors, and have a very, very quiet environment, so no problems for me.

 

[435279]

Sounds perfect, any houses for sale nearby?

 

[youngarthur]

Sounds perfect, any houses for sale nearby?

There is nothing nearby. When I said its very quiet, I forgot to mention the Deer barking, foxes howling, Pine Martin stealing anything it can get its hands on, buzzards screeching overhead, Canada geese flying over first , and last thing at night.and I did see 2 cars yesterday, up on the single track road, and I expect my M300 to be here next week!.

 

[trishd]

cslinux:

1.) TY for the link to the 'noise danger' site: I learned a lot, about how we have 15-20K of tiny hairlike cells in our ears that actively respond to audible frequencies, and they need calm and rest if/when subjected to the stress of higher decibels of sounds; our hearing is NOT 'a muscle group' that may be exercised and strengthened, but, rather, it is a very, very delicate instrument and it needs to be protected from the harm caused by higher decibels of noise.

You're a scientist obviously: Can you please educate us on 'hearing fatigue' which is not that of excessive sound exposure damage of over-stimulation of the sense receptor cells? One aspect of the se846 that is precious to me is how I can turn the volume all the way DOWN and still hear all the detail. In my prior post, I think I was clumsily trying to express how I think what happens, WITH ME, is that me deliberately listening to the softest of sounds of, say, Keane Sunshine, relaxes me and 'takes me out' of my normal state of 'frozen in fight or flight mode' (PTSS), IE, me listening in this manner lessens the 'normal' sense of fear I have that danger is always lurking around me: Could I get a 'hearing fatigue' that's not a function of higher decibels of sound? -- Is there a 'hearing fatigue' that can happen particularly with the se846, for instance, which is NOT related to higher decibels (IE, blasting your ears intensely with loud music -- and with the se846, we place the 'thing'y' (the device transmitting the sound waves) as deep in our ears as can be? You have me think of one of my siblings who mowed lawns as summer job - he mowed for hrs' upon hrs' upon hrs' (to make money back then), but now he's an adult with marked hearing loss: Maybe what happens is that because he's already got hearing loss, if he, say, got a se846, he's MOST LIKELY going to be destroying his hearing in an ever-escalating manner (because of how he'd be continually worsening the damage to those audio receptor cells)?

2.) Will you please educate us on the concept of 'sound stage' (I BELIEVE it's called that) which, to my understanding, is 'how big an area it feels to me' when I'm listening to Lecrae and Mali do 'Tell the World'? IE, do I get a sense that I'm in a small/medium/large 'room' with Mali and Lecrae, or, do I feel those two are 'right next to me softly/med'/loudly singing to me? Do I feel I'm in a big concert hall, and, if so, just 'how big', EG, tiny rural schoolhouse, small town theater-sized, large orchestra hall, etc.??

EG, if I listen to Keane Atlantic, what sort of 'sound stage' sense am I experiencing with the se846 - feeling I'm in a studio with the 3 guys as they make the cd, feeling the 3 guys and their instruments are 'RIGHT IN MY VERY EARS'??? Please explain, because I don't understand that principle at all now. tyia !!

 

[csglinux]

cslinux:

1.) TY for the link to the 'noise danger' site: I learned a lot, about how we have 15-20K of tiny hairlike cells in our ears that actively respond to audible frequencies, and they need calm and rest if/when subjected to the stress of higher decibels of sounds; our hearing is NOT 'a muscle group' that may be exercised and strengthened, but, rather, it is a very, very delicate instrument and it needs to be protected from the harm caused by higher decibels of noise.

You're a scientist obviously: Can you please educate us on 'hearing fatigue' which is not that of excessive sound exposure damage of over-stimulation of the sense receptor cells? One aspect of the se846 that is precious to me is how I can turn the volume all the way DOWN and still hear all the detail. In my prior post, I think I was clumsily trying to express how I think what happens, WITH ME, is that me deliberately listening to the softest of sounds of, say, Keane Sunshine, relaxes me and 'takes me out' of my normal state of 'frozen in fight or flight mode' (PTSS), IE, me listening in this manner lessens the 'normal' sense of fear I have that danger is always lurking around me: Could I get a 'hearing fatigue' that's not a function of higher decibels of sound? -- Is there a 'hearing fatigue' that can happen particularly with the se846, for instance, which is NOT related to higher decibels (IE, blasting your ears intensely with loud music -- and with the se846, we place the 'thing'y' (the device transmitting the sound waves) as deep in our ears as can be? You have me think of one of my siblings who mowed lawns as summer job - he mowed for hrs' upon hrs' upon hrs' (to make money back then), but now he's an adult with marked hearing loss: Maybe what happens is that because he's already got hearing loss, if he, say, got a se846, he's MOST LIKELY going to be destroying his hearing in an ever-escalating manner (because of how he'd be continually worsening the damage to those audio receptor cells)?

2.) Will you please educate us on the concept of 'sound stage' (I BELIEVE it's called that) which, to my understanding, is 'how big an area it feels to me' when I'm listening to Lecrae and Mali do 'Tell the World'? IE, do I get a sense that I'm in a small/medium/large 'room' with Mali and Lecrae, or, do I feel those two are 'right next to me softly/med'/loudly singing to me? Do I feel I'm in a big concert hall, and, if so, just 'how big', EG, tiny rural schoolhouse, small town theater-sized, large orchestra hall, etc.??

EG, if I listen to Keane Atlantic, what sort of 'sound stage' sense am I experiencing with the se846 - feeling I'm in a studio with the 3 guys as they make the cd, feeling the 3 guys and their instruments are 'RIGHT IN MY VERY EARS'??? Please explain, because I don't understand that principle at all now. tyia !!

Wow. Lots of important questions there! I'll do my best...

As you say, the cillia in the ear are delicate structures. Too many people don't realize until it's too late, that they can be permanently, irreversibly, incurably damaged in a matter of seconds by loud noise. And don't get me going on the mowers and the leaf blowers - I hate them, even when I'm on the other side of the street. And then you see the poor guy who's operating the leaf blower has no hearing protection. If he has to go deaf, his employer should at least let him go deaf via Pink Floyd

Continuous noise exposure is the main risk, but also try to stay healthy and change/wash your eartips periodically, because using IEMs puts you at a higher risk of ear infections - especially if you wear them for long periods. Bugs love to grow in nice warm, moist environments.

The good news about IEMs is they can help protect your hearing if they isolate well (like the SE846 does!) and you take advantage of that by listening at lower volumes. I completely agree about the advantages of better clarity - this also helps protect your ears, because you'll still get all the details at lower volumes.

I'm probably not the best person to comment on sound stage width/depth, etc. IMHO, way too much emphasis is given to this topic on headfi when in reality, 99% of all currently-available recorded music was recorded/mixed/mastered on - and for -loudspeakers, not headphones. The irony is that 99% of the planet is now listening to that music on headphones. There's simply no way headphones could or should be expected to reproduce the original soundstage - not without additional DSP. This is why most IEMs make it feel like the sound is coming from inside your head. Detail is a higher priority for me than an accurate sound stage, but I would happily re-purchase large chunks of my music collection in binaural (recorded using two mics placed in the ear canals of a dummy head), if only it were available. Sigh.

Still, for a decent sound stage effect with IEMs, you can checkout the Out-of-your-head software. You can demo it for free:

https://fongaudio.com/out-of-your-head-software/

There's also a clever device called a Smyth Realizer. I've not heard it, but I know @moedawg140 was impressed with it. I believe its signal processing takes into account the exact shape of the users' ear. This is clever stuff and I'm definitely looking forward to the day when I have one of those in a pair of tiny, lossless, drop-out-resistant BT earbuds, the same size as the SE846

 

[trishd]

TY, cglinux.

1. If I were to buy a license for out-of-my/your-head for the $150, is it good 'forever', or some time duration?
2. Out-of...head says it's a download - I will be using fiio x1 2nd gen for listening to FLAC music with se846. So, Out....head is worthless for me, correct (because 'download' means to use it I would have to stay wired to my computer, right?)??

3. The SmythR.... looks like a big contraption that costs ~$2K and which I would hook to my se846, correct? What are the 'tiny bt earbuds'?????????????? And, with all due respect, IMO se846 earbuds are NOT 'tiny earbuds' - se846 is Big Honkin' Earbuds and I have to jam them into my concha cavas ! Sometimes people look at me 'funny' when I'm out and about, and I wonder if it's a.) the zany cord that keeps 'pulling up off the top of my helixes (I can't keep the over-ear 'twists'/curve in my cord -- my cord constantly is reverting/returning to straight line) or that people see how I keep the cord strapped tight under my chin, or b.) the see-through buds I bought, or c.) that the buds themselves are so big in my ears..... meebee a combo' of all?

Does anyone here actually do as Shure tells you to do, which is tighten the cord BEHIND your head??? I don't do it that way because I use the shorter of the 2 cords and it's just a tinch too short for comfort -- I've never tried the longer cord, but IGNORAMUS ME thinks I get better sound via a shorter cord??????? Y/N???? (I also have concerns I'll get my whole head tangled up loony in that looooooong cord........).

 

[csglinux]

TY, cglinux.

1. If I were to buy a license for out-of-my/your-head for the $150, is it good 'forever', or some time duration?
2. Out-of...head says it's a download - I will be using fiio x1 2nd gen for listening to FLAC music with se846. So, Out....head is worthless for me, correct (because 'download' means to use it I would have to stay wired to my computer, right?)??

3. The SmythR.... looks like a big contraption that costs ~$2K and which I would hook to my se846, correct? What are the 'tiny bt earbuds'?????????????? And, with all due respect, IMO se846 earbuds are NOT 'tiny earbuds' - se846 is Big Honkin' Earbuds and I have to jam them into my concha cavas ! Sometimes people look at me 'funny' when I'm out and about, and I wonder if it's a.) the zany cord that keeps 'pulling up off the top of my helixes (I can't keep the over-ear 'twists'/curve in my cord -- my cord constantly is reverting/returning to straight line) or that people see how I keep the cord strapped tight under my chin, or b.) the see-through buds I bought, or c.) that the buds themselves are so big in my ears..... meebee a combo' of all?

Does anyone here actually do as Shure tells you to do, which is tighten the cord BEHIND your head??? I don't do it that way because I use the shorter of the 2 cords and it's just a tinch too short for comfort -- I've never tried the longer cord, but IGNORAMUS ME thinks I get better sound via a shorter cord??????? Y/N???? (I also have concerns I'll get my whole head tangled up loony in that looooooong cord........).

1. License is forever, but extra profiles (extra speaker systems) cost more.
2. Correct. There is no Android/iOS/DAP version yet.
3. According to Apple (and sadly, now Google too), it is already time to cut those cords and embrace our wireless future by purchasing their own brand of expensive proprietary wireless headphones, which have been designed only in the best interests of the consumer with no sneaky intentions of locking us even more securely into their own particular walled garden. Of course, wireless is the future, but imagine - with today's technology - how big an earbud would have to be to be properly wireless (lossless transmission of everything, including hi-res formats, good battery life, no drop-outs, DSP tricks like the Smyth R, etc.). Even current lossy basic Bluetooth earbuds are huge when they are truly wireless. SE846 buds really are tiny, relative to these:

 

[me7]

Shure has released a lean Apple Lightning cable with an included DAC for it's IEMs. Is there a comparable USB-C solution for non-Apple devices out there? I'm wondering how I can continue to use my beloved SE846 in a post-9mm-jack world.

 

[csglinux]

The answer about USB-C is not yet, maybe in the future, but it's complicated.

Anybody that's excited about Apple (and now Google) removing the headphone jack should read the following:

http://flip.it/GUQuV

It's a lengthy article, but it explains quite articulately why these companies want to remove the headphone jack and why this move is intentionally screwing the consumer.

My recommendation would be not to buy a phone without a headphone jack. I recently picked up an LG V30. It's awesome! Its sound output is so good, most people wouldn't need to carry a separate DAP

 

[csglinux]

P.S. Google's Pixel 2 doesn't even support analog out through USB-C, so if you wanted to use these phones with the SE846, you'd need to carry a separate dongle or DAC/amp.

Also, you really aren't making any compromises by purchasing a phone with a headphone jack. If you still want to use Bluetooth, you can. The V30 supports higher-bandwith BT with aptX and aptXHD. (The iPhone supports neither of these.)