Shure SE846: A New In-Ear Flagship From Shure. Finally! (Impressions p26-28)
May 10, 2013 at 1:55 PM Post #271 of 3,218
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 It always amazes me here the number of people who have multiple headphones/IEMs. You can only listen to one at a time. I have one IEM for travel and one headphone for home. Of course it is heresy here to say I use my IEM and headphone to actually listen and enjoy the music not as a science project.

 
Totes brodawg.  Its like all those fools that eat more than 1 type of food, or wear different clothes sometimes.  Variety is for suckers. 

 
lol. Win.
 
May 10, 2013 at 2:16 PM Post #273 of 3,218
lol. Win.


Really, again the music is like the food or clothes. The headphones are merely the plates to eat the food off of or the body to wear the clothes


No, music would be the raw food or materials for the cloths. Headphones, amps, and DACs would be the tools used to prepare (and cook) the food and create clothing designs. You would determine for yourself how well the food was prepared.
 
May 10, 2013 at 2:22 PM Post #274 of 3,218
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lol. Win.


Really, again the music is like the food or clothes. The headphones are merely the plates to eat the food off of or the body to wear the clothes


No, music would be the raw food or materials for the cloths. Headphones, amps, and DACs would be the tools used to prepare (and cook) the food and create clothing designs. You would determine for yourself how well the food was prepared.

 
Bah... beat me to it. :frowning2:
 
spook: In all honesty, if you're happy with what you have and feel no desire to look around for different flavors, then more power (and money saved) to you. I would stick with that feeling and run. I got stuck in the "I wonder what else is out there" crowd. I enjoying listen to my music in different ways, and always wonder how a certain song will sound with different headphones. I've eventually found that I prefer different types of headphones for different types of music depending on my mood. It's a deadly trap. 
 
May 10, 2013 at 2:28 PM Post #275 of 3,218
Headphones are fun.  Not everyone is attached to one single sound signature.  Also, with the advances in driver technology every year there are more interesting options and the general trend is improvement.  One of my cheapest IEMs is the Soundmagic ES-18; for $12 it's amazing... 5 years ago you'd never have gotten that kind of quality for such a tiny price.
 
It's equally (or more) fun at the high end where we're seeing new innovations and trends (the most popular trend of the last year being hybrid ba/dynamic IEMs).
 
Also, some of us are 'collectors'; books, music, movies, knives et al.... it's nice to have A LOT OF HEADPHONES!  Woohoo!  He who dies with the most toys wins.
beyersmile.png

 
May 10, 2013 at 2:36 PM Post #276 of 3,218
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No, music would be the raw food or materials for the cloths. Headphones, amps, and DACs would be the tools used to prepare (and cook) the food and create clothing designs. You would determine for yourself how well the food was prepared.

 
Not quite.
 
May 10, 2013 at 2:38 PM Post #277 of 3,218
I'm going to copy a series of posts I made on another thread:
 
 
 
I really dislike the way that companies are beginning to non-chalantly charge $1K plus for iems.
 

 
 
 
I'd love to see a price breakdown for the new Shures. I just don't understand why they're so expensive.
 
I hope this trend isn't allowed to continue. Next thing you know, iems and headphones will be priced in the higher end speaker range for no good reason.
 

 
 
 

Originally Posted by eke2k6 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
 
 
Proprietary BA's* with all that precision metal work on their exteriors to look cool.
 
* Although they could be good?

 
 
 
So are iems costing under $500. 
 
What upsets me is that other manufacturers are watching. They'll start pricing their iems in that range, or higher, simply because that's how it's "supposed" to be.
 
FAD gets away with it because their products are so niche, but here you have a major company like Shure breaking the price ceiling. 
 
When I got into this hobby, the hottest iems were the FX700 (wood body and diaphragm!), SM3, GR07 (a diaphragm made from frickin bacterial metabolites), and the Ortofon moving armatures. I'm damn sure the salaries for engineers hasn't tripled over the years, nor have the price of materials and factory prices gone up by that much...if anything, the salaries have gone down.
 
A statement product doesn't have to make a statement price-wise. There's really no excuse, especially when you're a company with enough resources to get manufacturing discounts because of high volume.
 



 
This is a MASS PRODUCED item. There's absolutely no reason why it should be so expensive.
 
May 10, 2013 at 2:38 PM Post #278 of 3,218
Bah... beat me to it. :frowning2:

spook: In all honesty, if you're happy with what you have and feel no desire to look around for different flavors, then more power (and money saved) to you. I would stick with that feeling and run. I got stuck in the "I wonder what else is out there" crowd. I enjoying listen to my music in different ways, and always wonder how a certain song will sound with different headphones. I've eventually found that I prefer different types of headphones for different types of music depending on my mood. It's a deadly trap. 


Panges, I almost fell into the trap because I realized I was not just relaxing and enjoying the music but listening for every little nuance. I wish every success in your search.
 
May 10, 2013 at 2:56 PM Post #279 of 3,218
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I'm going to copy a series of posts I made on another thread:
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
This is a MASS PRODUCED item. There's absolutely no reason why it should be so expensive.


I completely agree.  I'm sure the R&D that went into this was substantial, but I'm significantly less convinced that it was so expensive they needed their flapship to have an MSRP over twice of what their previous flapship was set at.  Other companies have developed their own BAs from scratch for less.
 
May 10, 2013 at 3:29 PM Post #281 of 3,218
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What's so great about customs, exactly?


For me fit/comfort, sound, isolation (and if you choose correctly) getting to interact with a real human being if you have problems..
 
At the end of the day this $1000+ Shure is still using $1 tips and while the Shure Olives are pretty good my custom is much more comfortable for longer periods.
 
I'm not saying there aren't downsides or that customs are for everyone; I'm simply answering your question.

So customs can be a better option for some individuals but aren't by definition better than universals, right?
 
Comfort, sound and isolation of CIEMs (at least in my experience) depend on the position of the facial muscles and the body as a whole. Casually claiming things like: "for the same money Customs are within reach", I see a possibility that readers with no previous experience of CIEMs may be led to believe that CIEMs are the be‑all and end‑all in IEM design. For those readers I think it may be of value to know that acrylic CIEMs are rigid, very rigid (think glass), while ear canals are not. This, at least for me, limits the use of CIEMs. As soon as I move my facial muscles (like when smiling) or deviate too much from the position of the body as it were when the impressions were made, like when laying down on my back in bed (my preferred position when listening to music), the shape of the ear canals changes and consequently affects the isolation, sound and comfort. I would say that (at least for me) CIEMs are ruled out whenever I’m not keeping my head in the upright position it was when the impressions were made. In this respect I find the flexibility of UIEMs to be a major advantage.
 
May 10, 2013 at 3:29 PM Post #282 of 3,218
Pricing has little to do with actual costs to produce (although it is nice when you can sell for a profit) Having a higher margin item in the product line can do a number of things; it can keep a company healthy; it can help with the R&D costs of forthcoming products; it can help subsidize products with thinner margins. Products are rarely priced in a vacuum - I'm Shure (sic) that a great deal of marketing research went into the pricing of the 846 - not the least of which is that for the audiophile community to take the 846 seriously, it had to be priced amongst it peers - 3003, IE800, etc... If sales are light, the price will come down - I don't think they will have any trouble moving product - what I think is exciting is that some of the technology used in the 846 will Shurely trickle down to lesser models as they revamp the line - which is a Shurity.
 
May 10, 2013 at 3:53 PM Post #283 of 3,218
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I love all the replies that state a custom monitor is worth the extra money just because they are more labor intensive. I'll give them that, but I will not agree that it makes them superior in any other manner automatically. I really like that Shure is thinking outside the box on these. It's unfortunate that people think mass produced items are somehow inferior to a custom product. I don't see the same complaint with iPhones  
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The fact that a custom has separate output ports for mid, low and high DOES automatically make it better and more cohesive sounding.  No tip differentiation issues would be another meaning there is a uniform absolute measurable sound with a custom....but there isn't with a universal because of fit and tip issues which is critical.

That is no longer a unique feature for customs...
 
You'll have the same "problem" with customs because every ear canal in the world is different and will effect the subjective experience of the sound.
 
I feel the question remains to be answered; what exactly is better with custom IEMs?
 
It would seem to me that with the late developments in the UIEM world I wouldn't be a bit surprised if within a few years customs will be marginalised...
 
May 10, 2013 at 3:55 PM Post #284 of 3,218
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Like fit-ear and translucent you mean?

 
Hand made products by a work force of 10 people? That's justifiable. Shure has no excuse in this regard.
 
 
Pricing has little to do with actual costs to produce (although it is nice when you can sell for a profit) Having a higher margin item in the product line can do a number of things; it can keep a company healthy; it can help with the R&D costs of forthcoming products; it can help subsidize products with thinner margins. Products are rarely priced in a vacuum - I'm Shure (sic) that a great deal of marketing research went into the pricing of the 846 - not the least of which is that for the audiophile community to take the 846 seriously, it had to be priced amongst it peers - 3003, IE800, etc... If sales are light, the price will come down - I don't think they will have any trouble moving product - what I think is exciting is that some of the technology used in the 846 will Shurely trickle down to lesser models as they revamp the line - which is a Shurity.
 

 
That is why they will keep taking advantage of us.
 
If the 846 can compete with the likes of the IE800 at the price of the SE535, they'll move more product than they can keep up with.
 
What they are doing is changing the landscape, and making it OK for mass-produced items to cost so much. With a flagship that costs $1K, how much will their mid tiers cost?
 
Hell, look at Schiit. They're a tiny company that makes outstandingly built products, with extreme performance value for a fraction of the price of their competitors. Their products are selling like hot cakes, and I'm sure their profit margin is great. Not only that, but the volume they produce will enable them to make better products at similar prices.
 
An example of this nonsense trend is the JPS Abyss. A company jumps into the fray with a $5K headphone that is barely around the level of the HE-6, according to those who have heard it at large meets.
 
I might sound like I'm bi***ing extra hard, but I really don't want this to continue for the sake of the coming generations of audiophiles who might come in thinking that they have to drop such money for top tier sound.
 
May 10, 2013 at 4:05 PM Post #285 of 3,218
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All other things being equal, mass-produced should be cheaper than custom-made.  That's the entire point of mass production.  Now, if the sound quality is really that much better then it might be understandable... but if it isn't, it's harder to justify.  This still remains to be seen.

 
What's nice for Shure is that at this price point sound "quality" means absolutely nothing. This has already been proven with the FI-BA-SS and K3003. What does quality mean? What was the target sound, and how was it achieved? Unfortunately, once an iem costs so much, people will praise it's "quality" no matter what it sounds like, because something so expensive couldn't possibly have major flaws. Oh that 5dB peak at 8kHz? That's supposed to be there! And so is that 10dB dip at 3.5kHz... and the lack of all frequencies above 10kHz...
 
We see the same thing in wine, where "experts" will praise a bottle of two buck chuck with a Cakebread label slapped on it. Expensive ≠ quality.

Wow, I'm impressed! How many hours have you spent with the FI-BA-SS and the K3003? I take it you do own them, right?! For how long did you have to listen to figure out the those exact SPL dips and peaks at those exact frequencies? Wish I had golden ears like that...
 
 

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