Shure SE530...What is the definition of "rolled off highs"

[oak3x]

As a current owner of a pair of Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10s, I am very interested in the Shure SE530 Earphones in comparison... Several years ago I owned the Shure E4C, which I very much enjoyed.

Alot of the reviews for the new Shure SE530 describe the presentation with a treble that has "rolled-off highs". What exactly does this mean...is it that the highs are extended or lacking?

Personally, I like a sound with a bit "more" extention in the treble emphisis...and a little "less" bass / low frequency.

Thanks

 

[tot]

Lacking the treble. It seems to cut off completely around 12kHz (not exact frequency, just time based estimate on a sweep signal).

 

[jinx20001]

roll off mean that the higher the sound gets,is also the quieter it gets,the highs are still there but very quiet,so people say its rolled off or muted,i personally think they are perfect,but thats my preference i think my se530 are superb

 

[jinx20001]

also id like to pint out that high frequencies start at around 4khz,and if you listen to a 4khz wave,sound or sine wave it is actually very high,humans dont hear the high frequencies as much as we think,16khz and above are actually very difficult for adults especially to hear,all rolled off mean is its just more laid back and smooth in the highs,but the highs are still there

 

[soozieq]

I always thought "rolled off" meant some of the detail was missing. Was that a wrong assumption?

 

[Spyro]

If you enjoyed E4 you will fully enjoy SE530 as well. The E530 does everything the E4 does but adds a fuller, thicker and bassier sound without taking any of the detail away. Quite an acccomplishment for Shure.

There are some good things about the Shure rolled off highs. The extreme detail of the upper mids does quite well offsetting the lack of upper treble. Extreme detail on the high end has a tendency to fatigue your ears. Don't fool yourself, while the the E4 and E530 may have rolled off highs the overall presentation is quite detailed and quite pleasurable. I find you can listen to them for countless hours without tiring.

I personally did not find the Triple Fi any more detailed than the E530. TFP would be better for orchestra, chamber, some jazz and music with lots of instruments and layers whereas the Shures are better with rock, acoustic and vocal type music.

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif I always thought "rolled off" meant some of the detail was missing. Was that a wrong assumption?

That's correct but too much razor sharp detail with a short decay in the timbre is fatiguing and unpleasent to some people's ears. That's why some people swear by Ety and some Shure.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif I always thought "rolled off" meant some of the detail was missing. Was that a wrong assumption?

no not at all if you look at any frequency graph,headroom is a good place to ave a look,it has the frequencies at the bottom and the decibels on the left,obviously its showing what frequencies stand out at certain volume levels,the highs are rolled off and at the higher frequencies has lower output,so rolled off highs are basically means the highs are muted (quiet) but they are there,no detail is lost but it does not stand out like say the etymotics,therfor its rolled off.

another way of explaining it is lets say bass is rolled off,bass is more powerful and harder the lower it can go,but if it goes low and does not put out the power at them low levels it cannot be felt or heard,therfor if it still puts out high power at very low frequencies thats when you get serious air shifted and serious bass,but if it is not delievering the power its rolled off and dont seem to reach as low

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you enjoyed E4 you will fully enjoy SE530 as well. The E530 does everything the E4 does but adds a fuller, thicker and bassier sound without taking any of the detail away. Quite an acccomplishment for Shure. There are some good things about the Shure rolled off highs. The extreme detail of the upper mids does quite well offsetting the lack of upper treble. Extreme detail on the high end has a tendency to fatigue your ears. Don't fool yourself, while the the E4 and E530 may have rolled off highs the overall presentation is quite detailed and quite pleasurable. I find you can listen to them for countless hours without tiring. I personally did not find the Triple Fi any more detailed than the E530. TFP would be better for orchestra, chamber, some jazz and music with lots of instruments and layers whereas the Shures are better with rock, acoustic and vocal type music.

i absolutely agree with this tho,the triple fi or even er4p are not more detailed,they all are just suited to different music,i love reggae/hip hop/rap/some rock and so on,bass heavy tracks,so i love the se530 and they are much more detailed with this music than the er4p because it required good powerful punchy bass,but if we throw classic music and jazz into the mix the er4 and even the triple fi might walk all over the shures.

it is generally all about what music you put through them,this is the amazing thing about earphones,all the high end earphones are great,none are better than others,but they all have a speciality,all of them are better for different music types

 

[catscratch]

"Rolled-off" highs means that the sound gets quieter and drops below the threshold of audibility below 20kHz, so there is some information missing. "Recessed" highs means that the highs are quieter than they should be, but they are fully extended past the threshold of audibility (i.e. the HD650, which has very extended but very quiet highs). "Cut off" highs means that there is an abrupt drop before the audibility threshold rather than a gradual one.

All balanced armature canalphones have rolled-off highs. The E500 has the highest treble extension according to the official stats @ 19kHz but that's still shy of 20kHz which I would consider the minimum mandatory benchmark. According to my ears, all canalphones are missing some tembral and textural information, which makes sense since the very highest upper treble is basically there for overtones and harmonics only. There is very little directly audible information at 19kHz, and at my age my ears don't quite get up there anyway, but if I overlay a tone at 19kHz over a 10kHz tone that I can hear, there will be an audible difference - and that's what all canalphones are missing.

I never heard the UE models. The E500 is very detailed, however. You do need some sort of amplification IMO to make it sound good. If you liked the E4c, chances are you'll like the E500 as well, since it's sonically similar, though a lot fuller at the bottom end, and less harsh but more extended at the top end. Because it's lacking the lower treble spike it can sound less detailed at first listen, but there's more resolution to be had across the board; it's just not shoved in your face.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyro /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you enjoyed E4 you will fully enjoy SE530 as well. The E530 does everything the E4 does but adds a fuller, thicker and bassier sound without taking any of the detail away. Quite an acccomplishment for Shure. There are some good things about the Shure rolled off highs. The extreme detail of the upper mids does quite well offsetting the lack of upper treble. Extreme detail on the high end has a tendency to fatigue your ears. Don't fool yourself, while the the E4 and E530 may have rolled off highs the overall presentation is quite detailed and quite pleasurable. I find you can listen to them for countless hours without tiring.

Exactly - the E500 are like an E4c with all the details but deeper fuller punchier kickbuttier bass.

Quote:

I personally did not find the Triple Fi any more detailed than the E530. TFP would be better for orchestra, chamber, some jazz and music with lots of instruments and layers whereas the Shures are better with rock, acoustic and vocal type music.

I haven't found any genre of music in my library that the E500 doesn't do well, but I have not heard the Triple.fi 10 to compare to yet.

 

[oak3x]

I am really leaning toward purchasing the Shure SE530, but my concern is with all the owners who have experienced the cable breaking.

-Has this issue been addressed by Shure yet, with changes to the design?

-Are recent purchasers of the SE530 still experiencing the cable problems?

Thanks

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Rolled-off" highs means that the sound gets quieter and drops below the threshold of audibility below 20kHz, so there is some information missing. "Recessed" highs means that the highs are quieter than they should be, but they are fully extended past the threshold of audibility (i.e. the HD650, which has very extended but very quiet highs). "Cut off" highs means that there is an abrupt drop before the audibility threshold rather than a gradual one. All balanced armature canalphones have rolled-off highs. The E500 has the highest treble extension according to the official stats @ 19kHz but that's still shy of 20kHz which I would consider the minimum mandatory benchmark. According to my ears, all canalphones are missing some tembral and textural information, which makes sense since the very highest upper treble is basically there for overtones and harmonics only. There is very little directly audible information at 19kHz, and at my age my ears don't quite get up there anyway, but if I overlay a tone at 19kHz over a 10kHz tone that I can hear, there will be an audible difference - and that's what all canalphones are missing. I never heard the UE models. The E500 is very detailed, however. You do need some sort of amplification IMO to make it sound good. If you liked the E4c, chances are you'll like the E500 as well, since it's sonically similar, though a lot fuller at the bottom end, and less harsh but more extended at the top end. Because it's lacking the lower treble spike it can sound less detailed at first listen, but there's more resolution to be had across the board; it's just not shoved in your face.

i like to know why you think 20khz is the minimum you would accept because the human ear cannot hear above that anyway so whats the point,just because some earphones reach above it the actual chances of hearing much above that is minimal

 

[oak3x]

Currently owning the Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10's...I had the opportunity to stop by Brookstone at the Airport today and listen to the SE530's.

Upon plugging the SE530 into my Cowon iAudio 7...I must say I was very impressed with the overall presentation. Knowing that many people mention the rolled-off highs, I personally did not notice it from my 15 minute session. The SE530's sounded full and detailed, with a beautiful presentation of the vocals in the tracks I was sampling.

The UE Triple.Fi 10's in comparison are also wonderfully detailed.. The thing about the UE's is that I find the vocals (mid range?) to be slightly more recessed then the SE530's

 

[tot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oak3x /img/forum/go_quote.gif Upon plugging the SE530 into my Cowon iAudio 7...I must say I was very impresses with the overall presentation. Knowing that many people mention the rolled-off highs, I personally did not notice it from my 15 minute session. The SE530's sounded full and detailed, with a beautiful presentation of the vocals in the tracks I was sampling.

I do like the sound of e500. You can notice the roll-off in something like symbals, they are lacking the high treble clarity or however you would describe it. It does not bother, the overall presentation is very pleasant.

To put things into perspective, roughly only the last half-octave is missing what adults can hear.