Shure AONIC 50 -
Aug 5, 2020 at 9:37 PM Post #391 of 1,309
I comparing 2 identical pairs, one after 142 hrs and I'm not hearing a difference. In my experience of 30 years approximately I don't hearing burn-in difference, and I'm sure is psychological when people saying burn-in is making a (big) difference. The reality is that even one pair new or with 1000 hours can sound different not because of the burn-in but because of other reasons. For example, sometimes our ears preferring more loud volumes and other times not and this is depending in the time of the day and how much noise and the volume we hearing before in the day. Sometimes we aren't receptive to the music and even a very good pair of headphones isn't sounding very good in some instances. Is proven fact that the auditory memory of the people is very bad even only after a few minutes (not even hours or days) of listening.

If some people wanting believing in burn-in this is ok, no problem. The problem for me is when people insisting in audio forums that this or that headphone is needing 100, 200, 500 hrs, etc for sounding good and telling other people they must waiting 100's of hours for the sound 'opening up', for more/less bass, for more/less treble, for more/less mids, for more big soundstage, etc.

I've read through this whole thread and I want to say that I really enjoyed and benefited from all your posts. Other people's posts too. But yours the most. You da man.

I was going to buy the M3 but I think you guys have talked me into giving Shure a go. I'm a big fan of Sennheiser's sound signature (I also rather enjoy Audeze...the LCD i-3 is friggin' amazing..not for planes though), but I've never owned a pair of Shures. I like and appreciate accuracy and agree with the point that headphones should be neutral and then we can adjust them...but there's just something cool about a professionally tuned EQ that you enjoy the sound of without having to fiddle with an EQ.

That being said...I reckon I'm gonna make these my first Shure cans. Maybe I'll end up liking the neutral lifestyle more than the Sennheiser Party Boi lifestyle.

Love this forum. You guys all rock.

P.S. Burn-in is probably placebo. Unless it's not. But a lot of the best things in life are placebo. :wink:
 
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Aug 5, 2020 at 10:33 PM Post #395 of 1,309
Hello Roberk.

I'm sorry but I don't remember if you having momentum 3 in the past but I telling you now I'm more happy now. Yes, the construction is better definitely! Isn't only the earpads and the headband but the buttons for play/pause and anc/ambient mode too is feeling better too, more solid. I'm not sure I understanding your comment about m3 irritating your ears. Now, after second time buying sennheiser m3, I'm appreciating the better comfort (for me) because my ears fitting better in the hole of ear pads (I think is little more big than sa50).

Is nice too that I can't hearing creaking noise with m3. With sa50 the right ear cup, if I moving it, is making creaking sound but only when I put the headphones (not when I using it) but I don't liking this. The sennheiser is more definitely having better construction in different aspects. And I know is silly saying this but I'm happy sennheiser only having "S" letter in ear pads and not the full name. I never liking the big shure name for the people seeing very easy. I don't like when the companies showing big name or logo. I know for many people this is very good and important, I really don't liking this!

Well, I should have read the last few pages before posting, because I just got to the part where you went back to the M3 haha. You tricked me! :wink:

Now that you're back on the M3, any insight as to sound comparison/likes/dislikes/etc with the A50? From strictly a music listening (with ANC turned on) perspective...A50 still got the M3 beat? I'm dumb. You've already answered this.

I'm leaning towards the SA50s for my first pair of serious wireless headphones and my most used and loved headphones over the years have actually been the HD600s, so I am quite interested in these comments above. If you or anyone else here can add any more subjective impressions that might compare the two headphones in terms of sound signature and quality, I would be grateful.

After reading through this highly informative thread, I have the sense that the SA50s are a closer match to myHD600s than the Momentum 3s (which would be another candidate)? If so, in other respects the SA50s have pretty much everything I'm looking for in terms of ANC, multipoint, codecs, style, leaving only a slight lingering concern for 'hot ears' and wanting confirmation that I am on the right track as far as tuning is concerned.

This is exactly where I find myself. I went ahead and pulled the Trigger on the A50 though. I'm used to Sennheiser's sound, I'm curious to try something else. I can always return them if I hate them and go to the Sennheiser's which I'm confident I'll like.
 
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Aug 5, 2020 at 11:31 PM Post #396 of 1,309
Burn-in isn't all psychological. For sources, it can make a difference at the level of the performance of the electrical components, and for transducers it can make a difference with the physical characteristics of the materials. Varies by item, of course. But when manufacturers like Sony acknowledge the changes, even skeptics have to believe. For headphones, in my experience, it can change the character of the bass and treble more than the midrange. But your mileage may vary, as they say...
 
Aug 6, 2020 at 2:28 AM Post #397 of 1,309
Burn-in isn't all psychological. For sources, it can make a difference at the level of the performance of the electrical components, and for transducers it can make a difference with the physical characteristics of the materials. Varies by item, of course. But when manufacturers like Sony acknowledge the changes, even skeptics have to believe. For headphones, in my experience, it can change the character of the bass and treble more than the midrange. But your mileage may vary, as they say...

Please don't start this rather useless discussion once again...
I think there's much evidence that most of the effects are psychological (which does not mean they don't exist, but that the reasons and mechanics are quite different). Given how much our perceptions are influenced by mood, expectations, circumstances I'd be hard pressed to see any case where those impressions invariably point to anything mechanical actually changing as the major reason for changes in perceptions.

I can see why some manufacturers bow to these beliefs. I think its quite simple: "you need to burn this one in for at least 2 weeks. It will grow on you, even if you don't like it right now. And once you kept it burning in for 2 weeks your return window expired. Ooops." OK, many won't bank on the last part, but the "will grow on you". Which is a thing of course.

Btw. the psychology behind these things is quite amazing. To see how unreliable our senses are, and how much of our impression is made by our brains, not our senses, does open your eyes (so to say) for many of the tricks used by marketing just as well.
 
Aug 6, 2020 at 3:26 AM Post #398 of 1,309
I'm a big fan of Sennheiser's sound signature

To be frank between headphones such as the TW2, M3, HD600 or HD800 I'm not sure that there is a sufficient form of consistency between Sennheiser's headphones to call it a "signature" (as demonstrated by the widely different FR responses for example). It's unclear to me that you would have enjoyed the M3 if you enjoyed other Sennheiser HPs. As an illustration I quite enjoy the HD6xx series but didn't like neither the HD800 nor the M3. So perhaps taking a side step and trying the A50 might have been the right decision :D.
 
Aug 6, 2020 at 3:49 AM Post #399 of 1,309
Same! Would love to hear some first-hand impressions comparing the Aonic 50 to the Momentum 3s. They were initially in the running for me but I opted for the Shures as the PX7 left me kinda tired of (what has been described as) emphasized bass.

Also it's been a while since I've dusted off my P7s and P7Ws but both are special headphones, IMO. They're V-shaped (the wireless version even more so) but quite well done. They're what pushed me down this rabbit hole in the first place.

I received my A50’s a week ago! Planning on posting my impressions this weekend. I wouldn’t go back or anywhere else, nowhere soon. These are definitely IT.
 
Aug 6, 2020 at 3:55 AM Post #400 of 1,309
I too get very sweaty and hate that. They sound good, but it's a mixed bag. I keep getting 'not connected' and then it immediately connects again. Almost every song in BT mode. It's the can's not the various devices I'm using. Anyone else have this issue? most annoying.

It has happened to me a couple of times but I guess mostly because distance and being paired to my iPhone and iPad at the same time with two different Bluetooth versions. They may have gotten confused as to which device to pair to. But like “every song” NO WAY. I may be a warranty issue.

Edit: I’ve since read further posts and I noticed you also pair iPhone and iPad. Like I said, it only happens to me because of distance issues or I was listening to music on the iPad and the iPhone got a notification or something. I would reset them, pair them to one device only and see if it still happened.
 
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Aug 6, 2020 at 4:31 AM Post #401 of 1,309
I've read through this whole thread and I want to say that I really enjoyed and benefited from all your posts. Other people's posts too. But yours the most. You da man.

I was going to buy the M3 but I think you guys have talked me into giving Shure a go. I'm a big fan of Sennheiser's sound signature (I also rather enjoy Audeze...the LCD i-3 is friggin' amazing..not for planes though), but I've never owned a pair of Shures. I like and appreciate accuracy and agree with the point that headphones should be neutral and then we can adjust them...but there's just something cool about a professionally tuned EQ that you enjoy the sound of without having to fiddle with an EQ.

That being said...I reckon I'm gonna make these my first Shure cans. Maybe I'll end up liking the neutral lifestyle more than the Sennheiser Party Boi lifestyle.

Love this forum. You guys all rock.

P.S. Burn-in is probably placebo. Unless it's not. But a lot of the best things in life are placebo. :wink:

Welcome Ian!

Yes, @angelom is da man. There are also others who have gone through other cans I’ve tested and whose comments make perfect sense. Aside from him being the only guy who has gone back, the other guys have all settled with the A50’s. Burn-in for me is no gimmick but getting accustomed to the sound is also very true. It’s a double process imo. I do like the Sennheiser sound but these, like @angelom said, “are accurate”. And that’s all I needed to hear. Listening to them right now (NTS Radio, Rap House show, 75% volume). So happy 😁!
 
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Aug 6, 2020 at 5:27 AM Post #402 of 1,309
To add a bit to my very short statement from yesterday (it was already late...):
I really don't understand where this frequency response diagram comes from. Especially this upper bass hump is most definitely not present, and I'm very sensitive to things like this. There is no boomy bass, but if that statement comes from someone using the XM3 as a reference point, even stating that the XM3 is "more balanced" -- I think I can file that under solid nonsense.

I do like good measurements like Tyll did them at innerfidelity. He was also able to explain measurements in detail, i.e. he did understand what those diagrams said. And he also understood what they don't say. This dubious website does not show any trace of this deep technical understanding unfortunately, but throws around diagrams and numbers in a way to suggest they are definitive and clear evidence. Far from it. To me, this is just some random tools in the hands of fools -- sorry, I'm not usually that harsh in my statements, but this kind of "reviews" I'm really fed up with. I don't even think they actually listened to the Aonic...

But whatever... I should simply stop reading commercial reviews.
I had to find this post again cause was in a hurry the other day when i saw it. but i totally agree. Especially about how Tyll could explain what those graphs meant in the big picture, and could make really good comparisons based on that knowledge. it was definitive.
Back on the Aonics, i have not heard a more objectively neutral bluetooth headphone. i haven't heard every bluetooth model so i don't mean to qualify that as such, but i've auditioned or owned close to 20 other bluetooth overears over the past 4 years.
 
Aug 6, 2020 at 8:49 AM Post #403 of 1,309
Aug 6, 2020 at 2:42 PM Post #404 of 1,309
Count me in as someone who's gone back to the Momentum 3 from the Shure Aonic 50. Mainly due to the more dynamic and exciting signature of the Momentum 3, but also because of the improved app and the ability to manage my bluetooth connections from the app, and the ability to EQ the Momentums via the app and have it save to the headphones.

As someone who's tried and owned all the major players, Bose N700, B&W PX7, Dali iO-6, Sony 1000XM3, Shure Aonic 50, NAD Viso HP70, and the Momentum 3, the Momentum 3 is my personal favorite sound signature out of all. Notice I didn't say best. That's because they're all different. The Shure and Dalis are the most neutral and analytical to my ears. The Shure is closer to studio headphones than the Dalis though as the Dalis have a slightly emphasized bass in comparison. Nothing on this list beats the excellent high and mid details of the Shure in my opinion. The Momentum 3 and PX7 are exciting, dynamic, big, and bold, although they do this in different ways. I call the Momentum 3 a modern audiophile headphone. Very detailed while not being harsh. Fairly neutral response with a bass boost. Excellent soundstage. The PX7 are like studio monitors for your ears. They have a unique sound signature unlike any on this list. Most either love them or hate them as they definitely present your music in a unique fashion and can make some tracks sound for lack of a better word, different. I LOVE them for movies and gaming. In my opinion, biggest soundstage on this list. The NADs are very smooth. Big treble roll off but still very detailed. Just a very pleasing signature to my ears. The Bose and Sony are my least favorite sound signature on this list. Bose falls into the category with the Dalis and Shures but are no where near as refined, detailed, or natural sounding. The Sonys are a fun headphone but muddier and less detailed than both the PX7 and Momentum. Let's just say it's less fun LOL.

As someone who's gone back and forth between all these headphones over the past many months, I've settled on the Momentums and PX7. It wasn't an easy choice, but they fit my needs better. I use the Momentums as my daily drivers. I work from home and they are my Office headphones for Music, TV, Movies, and Phone Calls. The PX7 are secondary. I use them in the evenings when movie watching or gaming, or when I'm in the mood for them musically. I personally like their unique presentation. I also grab the PX7 on the rare occasion I travel.

For those that are curious, here's how I'd rank all these:

Sound -
1a) Shure Aonic 50
1b) Sennheiser Momentum 3
3a) Dali iO-6
3b) B&W PX7
5) NAD Viso HP70
6) Bose N700
7) Sony 1000XM3

ANC -
1) Sony 1000XM3
2) Bose N700
3) B&W PX7
4) Sennheiser Momentum 3
5) NAD Viso HP70
6) Shure Aonic 50
7) Dali iO-6

Comfort -
1) Shure Aonic 50
2) Sony 1000XM3
3a) Bose N700
3b) Sennheiser Momentum 3
5) B&W PX7
6) Dali iO-6
7) NAD Viso HP70

Phone Calls -
1) Bose N700 (Best in the business)
2) Sennheiser Momentum 3
3) Shure Aonic 50
4) Dali iO-6
5) B&W PX7
6) NAD Viso HP70
7) Sony 1000XM3

Features/Convenience - (The biggest convenience feature for me is the ability to manage connected bluetooth devices via the app, that's why the Momentum and PX7 are my top two. Bose has this as well but Sony has a better EQ, Sound Optimizer, and quick attention so I put it ahead. The Momentum beats the PX7 because it has an EQ and the PX7 doesn't. I do LOVE that the PX7 can still be connected to my phone via Bluetooth while gaming on my Xbox1 or PX4. Makes it so I don't have to ignore phone calls. Haven't tested this with the Momentum)
1) Sennheiser Momentum 3
2) B&W PX7
3) Sony 1000XM3
4) Bose N700
5) Shure Aonic 50
* The Dali and NAD don't matter as neither has an app, can be updated, eq'd, etc.

Overall -
1) Sennheiser Momentum (If I could only own one wireless anc headphone this would be it. Excellent sound, great features, great comfort, excellent for phone calls and is the only one that comes close to the Bose in this category. You'd just need to purchase a 3rd party case if you planned on traveling with them)
2) Shure Aonic 50 (If I was a traveling musician or used my wireless anc headphones for critical listening, these would be it)
3) B&W PX7 (Excellent travel headphone, unique sound signature, great features)
4) Bose N700 (Although the sound quality is mediocre, I can't argue that these are the best travel headphones on this list. Especially if you are on the phone a lot or use your voice assistant. Light, portable, compact, excellent ANC, good features, and the best mic for phone calls in the business.)
5) Sony 1000XM3 (Second best travel headphone on this list)
6) Dali iO-6 (I really loved the sound signature on these, however, they don't seal well which makes the sound without ANC enabled VERY inconsistent. Not enough modern features to compete with the rest
7) NAD Viso HP70
 
Aug 6, 2020 at 3:00 PM Post #405 of 1,309
Count me in as someone who's gone back to the Momentum 3 from the Shure Aonic 50. Mainly due to the more dynamic and exciting signature of the Momentum 3, but also because of the improved app and the ability to manage my bluetooth connections from the app, and the ability to EQ the Momentums via the app and have it save to the headphones.

As someone who's tried and owned all the major players, Bose N700, B&W PX7, Dali iO-6, Sony 1000XM3, Shure Aonic 50, NAD Viso HP70, and the Momentum 3, the Momentum 3 is my personal favorite sound signature out of all. Notice I didn't say best. That's because they're all different. The Shure and Dalis are the most neutral and analytical to my ears. The Shure is closer to studio headphones than the Dalis though as the Dalis have a slightly emphasized bass in comparison. Nothing on this list beats the excellent high and mid details of the Shure in my opinion. The Momentum 3 and PX7 are exciting, dynamic, big, and bold, although they do this in different ways. I call the Momentum 3 a modern audiophile headphone. Very detailed while not being harsh. Fairly neutral response with a bass boost. Excellent soundstage. The PX7 are like studio monitors for your ears. They have a unique sound signature unlike any on this list. Most either love them or hate them as they definitely present your music in a unique fashion and can make some tracks sound for lack of a better word, different. I LOVE them for movies and gaming. In my opinion, biggest soundstage on this list. The NADs are very smooth. Big treble roll off but still very detailed. Just a very pleasing signature to my ears. The Bose and Sony are my least favorite sound signature on this list. Bose falls into the category with the Dalis and Shures but are no where near as refined, detailed, or natural sounding. The Sonys are a fun headphone but muddier and less detailed than both the PX7 and Momentum. Let's just say it's less fun LOL.

As someone who's gone back and forth between all these headphones over the past many months, I've settled on the Momentums and PX7. It wasn't an easy choice, but they fit my needs better. I use the Momentums as my daily drivers. I work from home and they are my Office headphones for Music, TV, Movies, and Phone Calls. The PX7 are secondary. I use them in the evenings when movie watching or gaming, or when I'm in the mood for them musically. I personally like their unique presentation. I also grab the PX7 on the rare occasion I travel.

For those that are curious, here's how I'd rank all these:

Sound -
1a) Shure Aonic 50
1b) Sennheiser Momentum 3
3a) Dali iO-6
3b) B&W PX7
5) NAD Viso HP70
6) Bose N700
7) Sony 1000XM3

ANC -
1) Sony 1000XM3
2) Bose N700
3) B&W PX7
4) Sennheiser Momentum 3
5) NAD Viso HP70
6) Shure Aonic 50
7) Dali iO-6

Comfort -
1) Shure Aonic 50
2) Sony 1000XM3
3a) Bose N700
3b) Sennheiser Momentum 3
5) B&W PX7
6) Dali iO-6
7) NAD Viso HP70

Phone Calls -
1) Bose N700 (Best in the business)
2) Sennheiser Momentum 3
3) Shure Aonic 50
4) Dali iO-6
5) B&W PX7
6) NAD Viso HP70
7) Sony 1000XM3

Features/Convenience - (The biggest convenience feature for me is the ability to manage connected bluetooth devices via the app, that's why the Momentum and PX7 are my top two. Bose has this as well but Sony has a better EQ, Sound Optimizer, and quick attention so I put it ahead. The Momentum beats the PX7 because it has an EQ and the PX7 doesn't. I do LOVE that the PX7 can still be connected to my phone via Bluetooth while gaming on my Xbox1 or PX4. Makes it so I don't have to ignore phone calls. Haven't tested this with the Momentum)
1) Sennheiser Momentum 3
2) B&W PX7
3) Sony 1000XM3
4) Bose N700
5) Shure Aonic 50
* The Dali and NAD don't matter as neither has an app, can be updated, eq'd, etc.

Overall -
1) Sennheiser Momentum (If I could only own one wireless anc headphone this would be it. Excellent sound, great features, great comfort, excellent for phone calls and is the only one that comes close to the Bose in this category. You'd just need to purchase a 3rd party case if you planned on traveling with them)
2) Shure Aonic 50 (If I was a traveling musician or used my wireless anc headphones for critical listening, these would be it)
3) B&W PX7 (Excellent travel headphone, unique sound signature, great features)
4) Bose N700 (Although the sound quality is mediocre, I can't argue that these are the best travel headphones on this list. Especially if you are on the phone a lot or use your voice assistant. Light, portable, compact, excellent ANC, good features, and the best mic for phone calls in the business.)
5) Sony 1000XM3 (Second best travel headphone on this list)
6) Dali iO-6 (I really loved the sound signature on these, however, they don't seal well which makes the sound without ANC enabled VERY inconsistent. Not enough modern features to compete with the rest
7) NAD Viso HP70

Wow. Very thorough. Thanks. I haven’t owned any of these but I’ve tested most of them and I can relate to a lot of the opinions. I would be tempted for the M3’s, which I have tried, but for now the A50’s make me VERY happy. I prefer their sound and that’s a “deal winner” for me.
 

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