shunyata debunked
Jul 7, 2007 at 11:20 PM Post #16 of 28

tbonner1

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This thread is great and a warning to those who want to spend big money on power cables.

Music Man speaks the truth. Thanks for this info and for getting me to buy the Presonus Central Station.
 
Jul 7, 2007 at 11:52 PM Post #17 of 28

infinitesymphony

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Now we need a no-name power strip vs. Shunyata Hydra vs. Wiremold power strip shoot-out!
lambda.gif
 
Jul 7, 2007 at 11:52 PM Post #18 of 28

luvdunhill

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I'm not trying to start a huge argument, but why do people get upset when someone comes up with something new and then marks up the hell outta it, and then sells the hell outta it?" I say "job well done".
 
Jul 7, 2007 at 11:54 PM Post #19 of 28

ooheadsoo

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Quote:

Originally Posted by luvdunhill /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm not trying to start a huge argument, but why do people get upset when someone comes up with something new and then marks up the hell outta it, and then sells the hell outta it?" I say "job well done".


Not the case here - nothing new in the Shunyata.
 
Jul 8, 2007 at 12:12 AM Post #21 of 28

Sovkiller

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Quote:

Originally Posted by music_man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
with quality cables there is a lot of design time involved. there is a lot of construction time involved. the connectors and the copper strands can be fairly expensive. if they sound better is up to the individual. the fact is they can be expensive to manufacture. in that respect one gets their monies worth.

music_man



Are you sure that those manufacturers invested a lot of time in develop those cables and connectors???...Please don't get fooled by the claims they made, mainly all those cables are stock cables rebranded, or maybe ordered OEM under certain specs in the best cases, but they are indeed made by the old same manufacturers we know off, Belden, Canare, Mogami, and a few more, and you will be surprised in knowing that the list is not that big neither...

Do you really believe that any of those cable manufacturers, will invest, just to sell a couple of thousands of yards a year, in a factory which require a lot of technology, melting processes, ovens, and later on, special calibrated machines in a so complicated and very expensive process of making the strands out of those "pure" metals?....Gimme a break!!!!

Audiophile cable industry is one of the more profitable industries in audio, a cable that could cost you literally a few cents to be made, is sold later on for even thousands of dollars...We all know that...
confused.gif
 
Jul 8, 2007 at 8:10 AM Post #22 of 28

Joey_V

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nuhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
music_man,
smily_headphones1.gif


Do you understand that clearly...for the similar price Monster unit will sound worse!
Now who is actually robbing you, those who deliver the goods or those who pretend they do with excessive parts.
And no, cheaper Monster won't sound better.

As you too said Monster puts too many parts and everyone who compared Shunyata and Monster says it's not even a fight...and yet many audiophiles will buy that Monster and impact their sound in a bad way just because of the parts cost principle.



You still dont make ANY sense.

You are willing to pay a HUGE mark up on a product that takes existing technology in the most simplest sense just because it sounds "subjectively better" than something that is more advanced and has more costly parts included within?

Regardless of what it does to the sound, the entire unit is a sham.... it's way too costly for what's inside.

If Shunyata were out to provide a reasonable product to the audiophile market, they would provide their conditioners which supposedly and subjectively improve audio at a reasonable price based on the parts inside that make up the entire component. Just because you are able to deliver, doesn't give you the audacity to charge an absurd amount for it. It's like taking a look at speed pure and simple.... sure a motorbike will go faster than a Ferrari F430, should the bike cost more simply because it goes faster with simpler/lesser components? You're looking at a singular aspect of the product's (Shunyata, a power conditioners/surge protector) premise.... you're not taking into account everything else the product is supposed to do.

Shunyata is cheaply manufactured, cheaply engineered, and lacks the capable surge suppression that its price should indicate.

According to you, its price is justified because it "subjectively" improves the sound... whereby giving you subpar surge/spike protection at a ridiculous price.

I'm glad you're not in charge of the market price for a lot of other products..... remember that the average PC 10 years ago were about 3-5x what the current average PC sell for, despite current PCs being faster and better in every way. If it were up to you, the simple fact that the current PC is faster than the previous generations justifies a higher price tag... despite the fact that manufacturing costs have been dramatically reduced in every way.

Riiight... components dont determine price.

You know that LCD monitor you're looking at right now? It's a lot cheaper nowadays despite being better, brighter, and equipped with a better response time than the generation previous....

Oh wait... you want to charge more for that too??

Give me a break.
 
Jul 8, 2007 at 8:13 AM Post #23 of 28

Champ04

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Are you sure that those manufacturers invested a lot of time in develop those cables and connectors???...Please don't get fooled by the claims they made, mainly all those cables are stock cables rebranded, or maybe ordered OEM under certain specs in the best cases, but they are indeed made by the old same manufacturers we know off, Belden, Canare, Mogami, and a few more, and you will be surprised in knowing that the list is not that big neither...

Do you really believe that any of those cable manufacturers, will invest, just to sell a couple of thousands of yards a year, in a factory which require a lot of technology, melting processes, ovens, and later on, special calibrated machines in a so complicated and very expensive process of making the strands out of those "pure" metals?....Gimme a break!!!!

Audiophile cable industry is one of the more profitable industries in audio, a cable that could cost you literally a few cents to be made, is sold later on for even thousands of dollars...We all know that...
confused.gif




While I would never buy their stuff again myself. I must attest to the fact that Shunyata's cables are NOT off the shelf or rehash of anyone else's designs. Their unique geometry is complicated to braid and is actually effective in lowering both capacitive reactance and inductive reactance.
Sure, their claims of using CDA101 copper is benign but the process of making them is difficult but effective for what they intend. My only beef with them in this area is that they make claims of being Uber smart when it wasnt their idea to begin with.
I know that most cable manufacturers are indeed just renaming some off the spool stuff from someone else. But in all fairness, shunyata is not.
But because they are shifty in other areas, I still would not personally buy their stuff.
 
Jul 8, 2007 at 9:41 AM Post #24 of 28

nuhi

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Joey_V, yes, let me rephrase once more. If a certain power conditioner sounds best to me I would pay whatever the cost if I can afford it without stretching. What is so difficult to understand. Same goes with the power cables, if they change the sound for the better it's still just copper and I will pay. The result is what matters in audio. You stick to your principles, nothing wrong with them, I just want my music to sound better. They don't put a price to the material but to the change in sound. At least that's the consensus
smily_headphones1.gif


About the prices in general...
Lets say best plasma on the world today, I don't know which it is but lets say X. For example if Y has a little less contrast it will cost 2x less. They didn't ask me, that's how it goes, best is expensive even though it's the same thing with a subjectively big difference in some area.
I like screens which don't have any kind of buttons or speakers, and those cost even more since they are specialized in the area which matter the most for the screen.
 
Jul 8, 2007 at 1:08 PM Post #25 of 28

Sovkiller

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Champ04 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
While I would never buy their stuff again myself. I must attest to the fact that Shunyata's cables are NOT off the shelf or rehash of anyone else's designs. Their unique geometry is complicated to braid and is actually effective in lowering both capacitive reactance and inductive reactance.
Sure, their claims of using CDA101 copper is benign but the process of making them is difficult but effective for what they intend. My only beef with them in this area is that they make claims of being Uber smart when it wasnt their idea to begin with.
I know that most cable manufacturers are indeed just renaming some off the spool stuff from someone else. But in all fairness, shunyata is not.
But because they are shifty in other areas, I still would not personally buy their stuff.



That doesn't mean that they do it neither, or did it, or reseached anything, probably they for sure order them OEM from another manufacturer that does everything for them, of course it is not off their shelf, but and at the end they are paying again pennies for that, and reselling it for a big chunk...

Trust me that once the market states that is willing to pay for something, this smething will show up in quantities that will exceed the demand...And most of them are simply rip offs...
 
Jul 8, 2007 at 4:20 PM Post #26 of 28

Champ04

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That doesn't mean that they do it neither, or did it, or reseached anything, probably they for sure order them OEM from another manufacturer that does everything for them, of course it is not off their shelf, but and at the end they are paying again pennies for that, and reselling it for a big chunk.


I find it totally ironic that I am defending this company now. However, I cant help but be fair.

I know for a fact that this cable is not built by some OEM. And it is no easy task to weave several feet of this stuff.
But you are right in the fact that they didnt do the research. They are just the exclusive licensee of the patent that describes this cable. But they do build it themselves.

shunyata-anaconda-wire.jpg


But one thing I didnt mention before regarding these cables............
The whole point to this complicated and exhaustive geoemtry is to "minimize" both capacitive and inductive reactance. Their own literature says so. But you can spend a whole hell of a lot less for Nordost Blue Heaven and get capacitive and inductive values far lower than what you get with this cable. FYI.
 
Jul 9, 2007 at 12:22 PM Post #27 of 28

music_man

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i measured the shunyata against the isobar. the isobar has more noise reduction over a larger range. the shunyata does two things only. it reduces noise and is a surge suppresor. same with the isobar. the isobar is also a much more robust surge suppresor.

i will leave it up to each individual as to which one sounds better.

the only thing i do not like at all about the isobar is that it is backwired. on the other hand the shunyatas copper buss bars add resistance. you would think that the large buss bar would be a "bigger pipeline", thus reducing resistance. no, simple physics. the bars are flat. more surface area across a flat surface equals higher resistance. that is why most cables are helical regardless of their size or ampacity. that's not a huge deal for 20 amps anyhow. i am just pointing out more of their bs marketing. you see the big bars, it must be something special. nope.

as far as their cables go i like them. not as good as nordost but they are still nice. it is only their "power condioners" that are a downright ripoff imo.

i think i will take the module out of the isobar, and use it with quality outlets in a nice box. that should easily surpass shunyatas performance as a ac line noise reduction unit.

i like the ps audio quintet but that is far from perfect as well. for $80 i can build something better than both the shunyata and ps audio strips. i guarantee that. it is not hit or miss. it will be superior.

music_man
 
Jul 9, 2007 at 2:16 PM Post #28 of 28

LawnGnome

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Quote:

Originally Posted by nuhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Joey_V, yes, let me rephrase once more. If a certain power conditioner sounds best to me I would pay whatever the cost if I can afford it without stretching. What is so difficult to understand. Same goes with the power cables, if they change the sound for the better it's still just copper and I will pay. The result is what matters in audio. You stick to your principles, nothing wrong with them, I just want my music to sound better. They don't put a price to the material but to the change in sound. At least that's the consensus
smily_headphones1.gif


About the prices in general...
Lets say best plasma on the world today, I don't know which it is but lets say X. For example if Y has a little less contrast it will cost 2x less. They didn't ask me, that's how it goes, best is expensive even though it's the same thing with a subjectively big difference in some area.
I like screens which don't have any kind of buttons or speakers, and those cost even more since they are specialized in the area which matter the most for the screen.



Except you have yet to realize that the sound isn't affected anymore than other well designed bars.

This is what really gets to me on this forum. People are FAR too gullible, and don't put any logical reasoning into their beliefs.
 

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