Should I now reconsider the HD650.....?

[pbirkett]

I'm just wondering, given my taste in dance music, my system is currently including the A.N.T. Amber amplifier, which is a very powerful sounding amp that is currently driving my DT531's ragged! The DT531 is sounding better than I have ever known it to sound, but nevertheless, it seems to be a bit too sharp, unrefined, and slightly lacking in definition (sometimes), which I personally believe are headphone traits as I've heard this before on many a different rig.

I'm just wondering now if with the EMU 0404 and the Amber in place, which I'll almost certainly buy when I get the cash, that is how much I like it, whether the HD650 would be done more justice than in the days when I tried it last, back then with a Terratec EWX 2496 and MF X-Can v3.

Before my criticism was it just sounded dull and didnt quite sound "alive", but with this setup, which is much more forward and aggressive, the HD650 might be brought to life, might it not?

Even if the 0404 isnt quite man enough for it, that can and will be rectified in the future, but I suspect its not a bad source by any stretch of the imagination...

 

[elnero]

Why not try RS-1's or MS Pro's? Considering both the DT531's and RS-1's have been called groovalizers it seems to me to make more logical sense.

 

[pbirkett]

I think (not sure, maybe he will chime in) Duncan has the RS-1 and Amber, and if I remember right, he doesnt really rate it...

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett I think (not sure, maybe he will chime in) Duncan has the RS-1 and Amber, and if I remember right, he doesnt really rate it...

If the Ant amber is slightly on the bright side then I can see how the Rs-1's wouldn't gel with it. The Rs-1's perform best with neutral/warmish amps to truly sound it;s best. I use to have the GSP solo and with the rs-1's it was like a cat going through a blender. Although it did sound great with the hp-2's and hd600's.

Elnero>Ms-pro's have the rs-1's wood colouration but without the highs and nusto bass of the rs-1's. It sounds "wrong". But it down to personal preference. I find them dull. But I understand why people would chose this for rs-1 type sound but without the "flaws"

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 Elnero>Ms-pro's have the rs-1's wood colouration but without the highs and nusto bass of the rs-1's. It sounds "wrong". But it down to personal preference. I find them dull. But I understand why people would chose this for rs-1 type sound but without the "flaws"

Yeah, I've read about the basic differences but I was thinking in terms of cost, Grado's being so expensive outside of the U.S the MS Pro's might be a viable alternative financially speaking. In addition I was also going on Snufkin's recommendation of the MS Pro's as groovalizers.

In terms of how I read Paul's initial post I got the impression that it might not be the amp that's bright perse but that it's bringing out the flaws or an unrefined nature of the 531's. My logic there was DT531's and RS-1's have been lumped into that groovalizer category in the past and I assume the RS-1's would be a step up.

Personally if the amp is bright I wouldn't try compensating for it by switching phones and I definately wouldn't consider moving to 650's because I personally find there's a harshness in the high end to those that I fear a bright amp would only aggravate. If it were me and I was happy with the other components in my system before the amp was put into the chain I would move on and try to find an amp better suited to the system.

 

[GoRedwings19]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero Yeah, I've read about the basic differences but I was thinking in terms of cost, Grado's being so expensive outside of the U.S the MS Pro's might be a viable alternative financially speaking. In addition I was also going on Snufkin's recommendation of the MS Pro's as groovalizers. In terms of how I read Paul's initial post I got the impression that it might not be the amp that's bright perse but that it's bringing out the flaws or an unrefined nature of the 531's. My logic there was DT531's and RS-1's have been lumped into that groovalizer category in the past and I assume the RS-1's would be a step up. Personally if the amp is bright I wouldn't try compensating for it by switching phones and I definately wouldn't consider moving to 650's because I personally find there's a harshness in the high end to those that I fear a bright amp would only aggravate. If it were me and I was happy with the other components in my system before the amp was put into the chain I would move on and try to find an amp better suited to the system.

come to think of it the alessandro's would have a better synergy with the ant amber than the rs-1's. I mainly use tube based amps for my rs-1's as I prefer the tube sound over SS. But I have used the rs-1's in a variety of SS amps. I don't like the sound with SS. the only one I rated is my cheapo WNA amp.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 come to think of it the alessandro's would have a better synergy with the ant amber than the rs-1's. I mainly use tube based amps for my rs-1's as I prefer the tube sound over SS. But I have used the rs-1's in a variety of SS amps. I don't like the sound with SS. the only one I rated is my cheapo WNA amp.

I've found the RS-1's to be a bit of a paradox, they love the smooth, warm richness of tubes but also really thrive on the speed and control solid state can provide that's why I think the MiniMax does such a good job especially on a limited budget, it provides the best of both worlds.

 

[StevieDvd]

I'm sure Alex will jump in to confirm but I believe he does most of his testing of the ANT using Senn 650s. I think the 600/650s pair well with the ANT but I'm using either the standard 650 cable/Oehlbach cables at present.

At the UK meet he had his Creek CD running via an ANT and an EMERALD mainly with the Senns but I now a few people tried other phones. Have a glance at the meet impressions thread.

Steve

 

[fewtch]

I'd ask about the output impedance of the Amber... if it's very high, you'll get bloated bass from the Senn family (which likes as close to zero output impedance as possible).

Personally I never recommend the Senn family to people who like a lively, energetic sound. Not that I'm saying Senns are dull and dead, just that IMO they aren't really for people looking for the typical fun/exciting sound. To me the "Senn sound" represents laid-back, civilized, refined, neutral. Many have tried to change their basic character, and just as many have failed

.

 

[Thaddy]

pbirkett, is your EMU-0404 modded?

I had the chance a month ago to demo some MS-2's, and I really didn't think that my HD580's were really that much more laid back. Granted, I have removed the foam and replaced it with black nylon, but to my ears, the Senns are certainly not laid back. In fact, they sound muc more aggresive than my Westone UM-2's.

Maybe you should consider modding the 0404 first. The general concensus seems to lean toward a smoother, more pronounced midrange.

 

[Andrea]

If your setup is 'more forward and aggressive' then there's a very good chance that the HD650 would suit you ... I think you should reconsider it. Fine logic, isn't it ?

P.S.: No inherent harshness of any sort in the treble.

 

[elnero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea P.S.: No inherent harshness of any sort in the treble.

In your opinion maybe but it's not just me that hears it.

 

[lan]

I agree with modding the 0404. If you want more definition and less glare in the high end, that would work.

 

[pbirkett]

Given that I've never touched a soldering iron, how hard would it be for me to mod my EMU?

I dunno if I'd call the Amber bright, but it is a very open sound, and very detailed. I think any brightness or lack of smoothness has nothing to do with the Amber because its happenned before on other amps, even with less bright sources.

The RS-1 is over $1,300 at this side of the pond, so even if I thought it might work, that idea is out...

Maybe I should try modding the card first to see if that can make things a bit more refined still - perhaps I'd then end up being completely happy with it, but I dont want to lose *all* of the aggression, because for some music it just rules

I'm talking subtle changes / improvement wanted here. I just wish it were easier to audition stuff... its not always easy.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elnero In your opinion maybe but it's not just me that hears it.

In any event, on my system the HD650's treble is "mutable", somewhat "unforgiving" -- at times a tad softer than I recall it sounding on my past speakers, at times brighter and even bordering 'harsh'. I think it's good this way.