Should I get a AMP/DAC combo (Magi/Modi or O2/Odac) or a single better amp (Asgard 2) for the Sennheiser HD 600?

[Thenewguy007]

 I need a amp to power my Sennheiser HD 600 to make it sound better than the $50 headphones I use.
 
I know next to nothing about  DACs  & very very little of amps.
Seems like the best priced AMP/DAC combos for both are the Magi/Modi as well as the O2/Odac????
 
Now, will I need a DAC if my main use for the headphones will be music through the PC & movie listening through my TV?
Should I skip those & just get a higher end amp, like the Asgard 2 (my budget is around $300) or will I absolutely need a DAC along with an amp to make my HD600 sound the best they can be?
 
 
Speaking of which, would the Magi/Modi combo be better for the HD600 or would the O2/Odac be better?
I read both are neutral & don't offer much in bass, which the HD600 supposedly lack.


I also bought the Philips Fidelio X1 specifically because of this, since it is supposed to be one of the best sub $300 cans for pure bass.
Would Magi/Modi or the O2.Odac combo be better for them then the HD600?

 

[notfitforpublic]

Personally, amp first for the 600's, worry about the DAC later. I'd spend the cash on an Asgard 2 first and start saving for an external DAC after.

 

[inthere]

Not much difference between the combos, both sound great and will power your headphones fine. 
 
I have the Modi/Magni Uber 2, the O2, and the Asgard 2.
 
Asgard has more clarity, definition, and a better soundstage than O2 and Magni, but not by a wide margin, just slightly noticeable. 
 
However, I like the Aune T1 mk2 ($169) better than all of them. The T1 is an amp/DAC and you can upgrade the amp and/or tubes later to give you a better sound.
 
 The stock tube in the T1 is great and has a nice warm sound but I replaced it with a Phillips E188CC-7308 tube and now it has more clarity and better soundstage than the Asgard 2. 

 

[Thenewguy007]

  Not much difference between the combos, both sound great and will power your headphones fine. 
 
I have the Modi/Magni Uber 2, the O2, and the Asgard 2.
 
Asgard has more clarity, definition, and a better soundstage than O2 and Magni, but not by a wide margin, just slightly noticeable. 
 
However, I like the Aune T1 mk2 ($169) better than all of them. The T1 is an amp/DAC and you can upgrade the amp and/or tubes later to give you a better sound.
 
 The stock tube in the T1 is great and has a nice warm sound but I replaced it with a Phillips E188CC-7308 tube and now it has more clarity and better soundstage than the Asgard 2. 

Reading Joeq's thread here makes it sound like they are very mediocre bottom of the barrel amps, but good DACs
http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-ss-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq-updated-on-02-14-15
 
Thanks for your replies otfitforpublic & Inthere! Even though they contradict each other. lol
So get a good amp (Asgard 2) & wait for a DAC later or get a good DAC/bad amp combo.
 
Just to clarify, I will have to plug in the T1's USB cable if I want to use it as a DAC correct?
Anything without a USB port is useless for it.
 
I still don't know which is more important in getting the most wow out of my HD600 (good amp or good DAC), because as of now it sounds just awful.

 

[cel4145]

People frequently debate whether the Modi/Magni is better than the ODAC/O2, so I would see them as comparable.

The Audio-GD NFB-15 is another dac/amp in your budget range that has a pre-amp and various digital inputs. So if your TV has optical (SPDIF) output, you could hook your TV up via that and your computer via USB, and then switch between them. I have the same NFB-11, which has the same headphone amp/preamp as the NFB-15, and I thought it equivalent to the Asgard 2. So I would recommend the NFB-15 before the Asgard 2.

 

[LingLing1337]

You have good enough headphones I would get the best amp you can afford and wait til you have money for a dac later. at least for hd600 I think magni/modi would leave you unsatisfied.

Look into something like a little dot mkiii, then a Modi or bifrost later when you have the dough

 

[inthere]

 
Reading Joeq's thread here makes it sound like they are very mediocre bottom of the barrel amps, but good DACs
http://www.head-fi.org/t/633006/aune-t1-usb-tube-dac-ss-amp-discussion-thread-see-first-post-for-faq-updated-on-02-14-15
 
Thanks for your replies otfitforpublic & Inthere! Even though they contradict each other. lol
So get a good amp (Asgard 2) & wait for a DAC later or get a good DAC/bad amp combo.
 
Just to clarify, I will have to plug in the T1's USB cable if I want to use it as a DAC correct?
Anything without a USB port is useless for it.
 
I still don't know which is more important in getting the most wow out of my HD600 (good amp or good DAC), because as of now it sounds just awful.
 

 
 Look up reviews on the Aune T1 mk2. The amp section has been upgraded from the original and is now quite good. To me, the mk2 amp section sounds cleaner than the Asgard 2. The bass is also tighter with a bit more weight than the Asgard, also it seems to fill in a slight gap in the higher mids that I feel the Asgard 2 is missing for an overall more full sound.
 
 Yes, you have to use the T1's USB cable to use it as a DAC AND to make use of the tube; if you connect through the line in it bypasses the tube. 

 

[ProtegeManiac]

   I need a amp to power my Sennheiser HD 600 to make it sound better than the $50 headphones I use.
 
I know next to nothing about  DACs  & very very little of amps.

 

First of all, that's not a guarantee. Unless whatever you're driving it with has too much distortion trying to drive a (relatively) stiff 300ohm load, the differences aren't too obvious to most people. People tend to expect a totally different tone instead of a more neutral tone (from absence of distortion) a more energetic but clean delivery on dynamics (again, from lack of distortion, as well as clipping).
 

 
Seems like the best priced AMP/DAC combos for both are the Magni/Modi as well as the O2/Odac????

 
I'm partial to the O2+ODAC one-chassis unit, but the Magni2+Modi2 can be cheaper depending on where you get the O2+ODAC from.
 
 
 

 
Now, will I need a DAC if my main use for the headphones will be music through the PC & movie listening through my TV?
Should I skip those & just get a higher end amp, like the Asgard 2 (my budget is around $300) or will I absolutely need a DAC along with an amp to make my HD600 sound the best they can be?

 

First problem: ODAC won't work with your TV. It only accepts USB inputs. However it will work better than the Magni2+Modi2 base version because you can keep the PC hooked up via USB into the ODAC section, but then have the TV hooked up via the analogue input into the O2 section. Just make sure you do get the right O2+ODAC configuration. On the other hand, you can always just wait a little while longer so you can order the Asgard along with the Modi2Uber, assuming your TV has an SPDIF output so you can hook it up to the DAC while the PC uses USB. 

 

Second...it's not really the headphone that needs the DAC. Between two properly designed DACs there isn't going to be any noticeable difference, but over other sources the DAC can have an advantage with however much imaging can be done on a headphone; unless you're comparing a properly designed DAC vs one that is deliberately reshaping the sound that is. Or in some cases some DACs don't output the Sony-standard 2v, so if you assume two DACs both do that and keep the volume on the amp the same, the one that outputs 2.5v tends to sound better to most people. In any case, treat using the headphones with the TV as more of a back up source that at least is still tonally better than the TV speakers, but don't expect absolute magic with it on movies. You need some kind of surround simulation DSP for that, the kind you find on soundcards and A/V receivers.

 

Third...again in general you might not hear a world of difference, as described above.

 

 
 

 
Speaking of which, would the Magi/Modi combo be better for the HD600 or would the O2/Odac be better?
I read both are neutral & don't offer much in bass, which the HD600 supposedly lack.

 

Here's a perfect example of how expectations don't match with reality. An amplifier only amplifies the EQ signal, which is why it's called an "amplifier" and not a "bass booster" or "warmifying colorifier." To get more bass you get a headphone that actually has the bass you want, or you use BassBoost or EQ. The only thing an amplifier will do is be able to deliver more voltage and current, which means it can handle dynamic peaks a lot better than, say, an iPod, and make the too-soft sounding bass drums that sounds like thwuumthwuumthwuum into a more solid THUD! THUD! THUD! or a loose double bass that sounds more like thWUUUUMMMMthWUUUUUUMthWUUUUUUUM into a tighter and more precise thwuum thwuum thwuum. It's not "more" bass, but simply "more precise bass." If you're expecting the kind of bass that makes people jump up to dance and enjoy the feeling of bass on their body as they down X with overpriced cocktails, best use a different headphone, but of course that'll only be good enough in comparison to other headphones (ie you will not get the full effect of a subwoofer kicking you in the chest).
 

 
I also bought the Philips Fidelio X1 specifically because of this, since it is supposed to be one of the best sub $300 cans for pure bass.

 
I don't think any of the amps you mentioned would have any issue driving the HD600 and the X1.

 

[Thenewguy007]

So I would recommend the NFB-15 before the Asgard 2.

Can't find anywhere to buy the NFB-11 / NFB-15.
Their official site has no option that I saw to select them, just a graph with the shipping costs for different continents.
 
 

You have good enough headphones I would get the best amp you can afford and wait til you have money for a dac later. at least for hd600 I think magni/modi would leave you unsatisfied.

Look into something like a little dot mkiii, then a Modi or bifrost later when you have the dough

 
Little Dot MKIII?
 

The eBay $250 price (eBay sellers legit?) seems to be more than what the NFB & Aune T1 MK2 are going for.
 
Is it work the premium over them?

 

[cel4145]

Can't find anywhere to buy the NFB-11 / NFB-15.
Their official site has no option that I saw to select them, just a graph with the shipping costs for different continents.

You email them. They send you an invoice, and then you pay with PayPal: http://audio-gd.com/Shop-EN.htm

 

[LingLing1337]

Little dot mkiii is an amp only, nfb and aune are combo doggies. Mkiii amp section will blow away the other two but you'll want to get a dac like a modi later down the line

 

[cel4145]

Little dot mkiii is an amp only, nfb and aune are combo doggies. Mkiii amp section will blow away the other two but you'll want to get a dac like a modi later down the line

Having owned the Little Dot I+, I have serious doubts that the MKII would "blow away" the NFB amp, although certainly some people might prefer the tube sound

 

[inthere]

Little dot mkiii is an amp only, nfb and aune are combo doggies. Mkiii amp section will blow away the other two but you'll want to get a dac like a modi later down the line

Little Dot mk3 amp section does not "blow away" NFB and T1 mk2. 
 
The Little Dot is also not only more expensive, but if tube rolling you have 4 tubes to deal with, while you have only one with the T1.

 

[Thenewguy007]

 
Little Dot mk3 amp section does not "blow away" NFB and T1 mk2. 
 
The Little Dot is also not only more expensive, but if tube rolling you have 4 tubes to deal with, while you have only one with the T1.

 
Does 'tube rolling' mean tube replacements right?
I'm going to have to replace those tubes down the line?
Extra $40-$90 per tube?

 

[inthere]

Tube rolling is the process of trying out a number of tubes in the same spot in an amplifier and selecting the one that sounds best to you. There are a number of tube rolling threads here at Head Fi.
 
Some tubes last for years but yeah there is a chance a tube will die on you, although it hasn't happened to me yet because I swap tubes every so often just to get a different sound. 
Some tubes can be as low as $5-10, but I've got some Telefunken tubes that went for $300+.