Short thoughts on CD3000 w/ maple wood & 2-sided headphone cable upgrade

Nov 25, 2004 at 5:54 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 23

lindrone

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So, here goes the story: About a few weeks ago, I started noticing that on the left side of my CD3000, I'm getting this weird buzz/resonance when certain notes are being played. At first, I thought it might have been a piece of hair, so I did the best I could to remove the pad, examine the driver and remove some small fragments of hair here and there. The problem I'm having with the left driver didn't go away. I contacted Sony about getting some sort of repair done, but all they could offer me is a $390 'exchange' program for the headphone. Of course, I pretty much hung up the phone right then. I decided it's time to hunt out a new pair of CD3000, or maybe try something else.

This is about the same time that a sale on a already modified CD3000 cropped up on Head-Fi. The owner (whose name on the forum is "cd3000"... just so no one gets confused.. heheheh) lives not far away from me. I went to audition the headphone, and decided to get it right on the spot.

The CD3000 has already been modified by Larry of Headphile, with maple wood R-10 style wood cups, as well as headphone upgrade to replace the single sided cable of the CD3000 with a dual-side cable.

The improvement over stock CD3000 is very apparent, particularly in the midrange. Some people has characterized CD3000's midrange as being distant, hollow, the upgrade completely changes these characteristics. The midrange is fuller and richer, with a slightly warmer tonality. It is also much more forward and present. This in term, shrinks the cavernous soundstage of the CD3000 just by a tiny margin. However, even with the slight loss of soundstage, the CD3000 is still easily one of the most spherical soundstage still. The detraction of soundstage is completely made up by the extra presence of a beautiful and fluid midrange.

Not only that, the bass region seems to have gained some extra extension as well as overall power. On some bass heavy tracks, the CD3000 is now able ot reach almost as deeply as my 2X-S.

All of these improvements comes without any additional congestion of sound nor loss of detail. The brightness of the CD3000 is pretty much still retained, except that the midrange is richer, so it in no way modifies the CD3000 to sound more like Sennheiser or anything else.

Before the upgrade, 2X-S outperforms CD3000 in detail, midrange richness, and bass extension. After the upgrade, CD3000 now matches up very well in midrange richness and bass extension, although the detail is still not quite up to par. However it still compensates by having a much larger soundstage than the 2X-S. After the upgrade, this modified CD3000 really does match up very, very well against my 2X-S. Enough for me to not reach for the 2X-S everytime I want to listen to music.


But... if they're so good.. why am I selling them?

So to get something very clear first, I do like this headphone very, very much. However, it isn't without other flaws.

The wood cup modification adds some extra weight to the CD3000. Originally the CD3000 is a very light headphone, with very little clamping, since the headphone just sits on your head, and doens't require much of any clamping force at all. The extra weight of the wood cup means that it "sinks" down a bit from what I was used to as a comfortable position for the CD3000. If there were some more clamping force, the headphone will still stay on just fine, but since the clamping force is not adjustable, it just doesn't feel very secure on my head.

I have to say, the extra weight is not that much of a difference. However, I've been spoiled completely by how comfortable and light CD3000 used to feel. Even though the extra weight is probably just a few grams, it feels weird to have it hang on my head the way it is right now.

Additionally, the wood cup also seems to seal in more heat than the original CD3000 cups. As with all closed headphones, heat build-up is inevitable; but CD3000's original design did a pretty good job of dissipating heat, thus allowing for long listening sessions disregarding the slight heat build-up. The wood cup definitely gets hotter.

On top of that... I just don't know if I want to keep this expensive headphone around, since even though this is a nice compromise from my 2X-S, I still prefer the 2X-S over it in most respects. Mostly because of the extra level of detail and realism that 2X-S presents. So it still remains a secondary headphone that's mostly used to impress others rather than myself. So it's hard to justify keeping this expensive thing around just for that reason. Although I can't help stare at the beautiful wood cup finish....


Anyway, if no one is interested in the headphone, I'll keep them indefinitely anyway... just because they're... pretty & sounds great. I'm getting to that point where I do feel like branching out a bit and try some other headphones to see where that leads me.

I think I'm going to put A1000's down next for my shopping list...
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Nov 25, 2004 at 6:17 AM Post #2 of 23
To a lesser degree, I noticed some of the same changes with woody SR-325's. They're smoother, but somehow more detailed. They also have more punch now. This was in direct comparison to a stock pair of 325's.
 
Nov 25, 2004 at 6:18 AM Post #3 of 23
Nice mini review, lindrone. The timing of this review and the general tone of your comments are refreshingly honest. I don't believe I've ever seen such a thing on head-fi: putting a pair of cans up for sale and then immediately telling everyone what you don't like about them (as well as what you do like, of course).

Incidentally, I'm in 100% agreement with you that that added richness and fullness that Larry's woody cups give to the stock CD3000's sound signature by far outweighs (no, bad chice of words) by far outshines the very minor inconvenience of a few ounces of additional weight. They do feel heavier (mine have the wooden R-10 shaped cups) and I suppose that this adds slightly to the head sweat factor, but I tend not to listen to any headphones for more than one CD at a time so it's a non issue to me. Even if they were my primary cans and I listened for 3-4 hours per day, the additional weight still wouldn't bother me enough to replace the woddies with the stock CD3000 enclosures. They sound so much better!
 
Nov 25, 2004 at 7:27 AM Post #4 of 23
I think the recabling adds more detail to the treble,and even though its still bright,its never painfully splashy like it used to be.
 
Nov 25, 2004 at 11:17 PM Post #5 of 23
I have a question: does the headphile modification have an open space between the cup and black frame like the stock form CD3000?

I found, that by using a 3.25" rubber o-ring gently(must not let it slip into the gap or it won't seal - must rest on both ridges of the gap) stretched to fill in the gap on the stock CD3000 to do exactly as you describe if I use subjective evaluation using music. However, using a sine wave generator and breaking and resetting the seal while listening to tones, the appearance of more bass was actually due to a slight peaking in higher bass region and in the lower midrange, kind of a perceptual trick, since in reality slight amplitude reduction occured in the lowest octave.

As an added bonus, this modification provides for much greater isolation then a stock CD3000.

-Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone
So, here goes the story: About a few weeks ago, I started noticing that on the left side of my CD3000, I'm getting this weird buzz/resonance when certain notes are being played. At first, I thought it might have been a piece of hair, so I did the best I could to remove the pad, examine the driver and remove some small fragments of hair here and there. The problem I'm having with the left driver didn't go away. I contacted Sony about getting some sort of repair done, but all they could offer me is a $390 'exchange' program for the headphone. Of course, I pretty much hung up the phone right then. I decided it's time to hunt out a new pair of CD3000, or maybe try something else.

This is about the same time that a sale on a already modified CD3000 cropped up on Head-Fi. The owner (whose name on the forum is "cd3000"... just so no one gets confused.. heheheh) lives not far away from me. I went to audition the headphone, and decided to get it right on the spot.

The CD3000 has already been modified by Larry of Headphile, with maple wood R-10 style wood cups, as well as headphone upgrade to replace the single sided cable of the CD3000 with a dual-side cable.

The improvement over stock CD3000 is very apparent, particularly in the midrange. Some people has characterized CD3000's midrange as being distant, hollow, the upgrade completely changes these characteristics. The midrange is fuller and richer, with a slightly warmer tonality. It is also much more forward and present. This in term, shrinks the cavernous soundstage of the CD3000 just by a tiny margin. However, even with the slight loss of soundstage, the CD3000 is still easily one of the most spherical soundstage still. The detraction of soundstage is completely made up by the extra presence of a beautiful and fluid midrange.

Not only that, the bass region seems to have gained some extra extension as well as overall power. On some bass heavy tracks, the CD3000 is now able ot reach almost as deeply as my 2X-S.

All of these improvements comes without any additional congestion of sound nor loss of detail. The brightness of the CD3000 is pretty much still retained, except that the midrange is richer, so it in no way modifies the CD3000 to sound more like Sennheiser or anything else.

Before the upgrade, 2X-S outperforms CD3000 in detail, midrange richness, and bass extension. After the upgrade, CD3000 now matches up very well in midrange richness and bass extension, although the detail is still not quite up to par. However it still compensates by having a much larger soundstage than the 2X-S. After the upgrade, this modified CD3000 really does match up very, very well against my 2X-S. Enough for me to not reach for the 2X-S everytime I want to listen to music.


But... if they're so good.. why am I selling them?

So to get something very clear first, I do like this headphone very, very much. However, it isn't without other flaws.

The wood cup modification adds some extra weight to the CD3000. Originally the CD3000 is a very light headphone, with very little clamping, since the headphone just sits on your head, and doens't require much of any clamping force at all. The extra weight of the wood cup means that it "sinks" down a bit from what I was used to as a comfortable position for the CD3000. If there were some more clamping force, the headphone will still stay on just fine, but since the clamping force is not adjustable, it just doesn't feel very secure on my head.

I have to say, the extra weight is not that much of a difference. However, I've been spoiled completely by how comfortable and light CD3000 used to feel. Even though the extra weight is probably just a few grams, it feels weird to have it hang on my head the way it is right now.

Additionally, the wood cup also seems to seal in more heat than the original CD3000 cups. As with all closed headphones, heat build-up is inevitable; but CD3000's original design did a pretty good job of dissipating heat, thus allowing for long listening sessions disregarding the slight heat build-up. The wood cup definitely gets hotter.

On top of that... I just don't know if I want to keep this expensive headphone around, since even though this is a nice compromise from my 2X-S, I still prefer the 2X-S over it in most respects. Mostly because of the extra level of detail and realism that 2X-S presents. So it still remains a secondary headphone that's mostly used to impress others rather than myself. So it's hard to justify keeping this expensive thing around just for that reason. Although I can't help stare at the beautiful wood cup finish....


Anyway, if no one is interested in the headphone, I'll keep them indefinitely anyway... just because they're... pretty & sounds great. I'm getting to that point where I do feel like branching out a bit and try some other headphones to see where that leads me.

I think I'm going to put A1000's down next for my shopping list...
smily_headphones1.gif



 
Nov 26, 2004 at 12:19 AM Post #6 of 23
Quote:

I think the recabling adds more detail to the treble,and even though its still bright,its never painfully splashy like it used to be.


Please, if people wants to keep on justifying and supporting those mods, which I'm not against (just that don't feel the need of) go ahead, but please use consistent arguments instead, as we have newbies that read all these...FWIW I have two pairs of CD3000s, and none of them in the stock form, with a decent source and amplification sounded splashy IME and IMO (if it was the case I would sold them long time ago) so after the mods, if it is just what you noticed, it was just as it as before, more detailed? maybe, another EQ? maybe, but not that OK?...period...
OTOH I do not see how a silver cable, that is known for being a more bright material, (at least that was always the main concern here) will tame that effect (if it were present which I do not consider as such) IMO all the opposite if this effect were present will be worst and intensified by the use of silver wire....just my two cents FWIW, after extensive use of the CD3000....
Try it out of my PPA, or the RP31, and tell me that they are splashy....
 
Nov 26, 2004 at 12:29 AM Post #7 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller
Please, if people wants to keep on justifying and supporting those mods, which I'm not against (just that don't feel the need of) go ahead, but please use consistent arguments instead, as we have newbies that read all these...


I dont think we have to restrain our impressions out of concern for newbies
rolleyes.gif
This is not about the CD-3000's but about any post that deals with an individuals impressions about a particular piece of hardware.

Quote:

FWIW I have two pairs of CD3000s, and none of them in the stock form


So you have modded your CD-3000's? Both of them? - sweet
wink.gif


Quote:

with a decent source and amplification sounded splashy IME and IMO (if it was the case I would sold them long time ago) so after the mods, if it is just what you noticed, it was just as it as before, more detailed? maybe, another EQ? maybe, but not that OK?...period...


confused.gif



Quote:

OTOH I do not see how a silver cable, that is known for being a more bright material, (at least that was always the main concern here) will tame that effect (if it were present which I do not consider as such) IMO all the opposite if this effect were present will be worst and intensified by the use of silver wire....


It is not just about the material - it is about the cable itself. Consistency of strands, no fraying, better insulation and other physical quantities determine cable performance.

Quote:

just my two cents FWIW, after extensive use of the CD3000....
Try it out of my PPA, or the RP31, and tell me that they are splashy....


Since this is not possible - how do you expect people to do this? Also - everyone is entitled to their opinion about the CD-3000. While I dont think it is a bad headphone I have heard better - to you they are the best - to me they are not.

Who decides which opinion is right or wrong?
confused.gif


Why have you adopted such an aggressive stance FOR the CD-3000 to the point where every negative statement against it is taken, by you, as a personal insult?

Relax Sov
cool.gif
 
Nov 26, 2004 at 5:44 AM Post #8 of 23
Yes,I think I wasnt clear about this,sorry.CD3000 used to sound splashy on some recordings back when I used them with SXH-1 amp.The treble ceased ever being splashy once I got PPA,wich had more treble energy,but at the same time it was more controlled or something.Shortly after that I got the mod and the treble got even smoother,less edgy,but with more detail.So I was just confusing the impressions,sorry again.
 
Nov 26, 2004 at 6:30 PM Post #9 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by WmAx
I have a question: does the headphile modification have an open space between the cup and black frame like the stock form CD3000?


I think so, the way that the wooden cup is attached is the same as the way that the original CD3000 cup is. The isolation of the wooden cup is about the same as the stock as well. Although the sound doesn't seem to leak out as much, however the sound leaking in is about the same.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus
Nice mini review, lindrone. The timing of this review and the general tone of your comments are refreshingly honest. I don't believe I've ever seen such a thing on head-fi: putting a pair of cans up for sale and then immediately telling everyone what you don't like about them (as well as what you do like, of course).


This headphone is indeed a nice upgrade from the stock CD3000... For the various reasons I stated, I don't know if I want to keep them for the long term... However the sound quality of it is certainly a keeper for those people who doesn't have another comparable solution. If I didn't have the 2X-S, there would be no question that I would be keeping this thing.

Also, I think it only does Larry justice for me to speak up about it. So it doesn't end up being people questioning the validity of his wooden cup & cable upgrade. I think I've seen a thread where a person was asking why people were selling their woodified CD3000; at least from my personal perspective, I'm selling them for all other reasons besides the sound quality, undeniably the sound quality is superb.
 
Nov 26, 2004 at 11:54 PM Post #10 of 23
I would like to know how much of the sound improvements are due to the cable vs. the wooden ear cup. Has anyone done the upgrade in steps (first the cable and then the wood cups)? My guess is that more of the improvements are due to the cable. I'm thinking about upgrading just the cable. Maybe I can get 50-70% of the improvement and not have to deal with the added weight of the wood cup. I'm leaning towards the Cardas cable upgrade rather than any of the silver cable options. Moon Audio has responded to my e-mail saying they can install the Cardas on the CD3K's. Any thoughts?
 
Dec 10, 2004 at 4:25 AM Post #11 of 23
The cups on them are too big imo.. Looks weird from certain angles.

Who knows, maybe I'll go woody some time in the future. I'm curious on how big of a difference there really is.. Most people seem to be very positive about it. I would probably go with standard size cups though.

Is it possible to just order the wooden cups and install them yourself?
 
Dec 10, 2004 at 8:01 AM Post #12 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by zool
The cups on them are too big imo.. Looks weird from certain angles.


The larger cup is supposed to make a difference in terms of the soundstage... of course, not having the other cup to compare with... it's hard to say.


Quote:

Who knows, maybe I'll go woody some time in the future. I'm curious on how big of a differrnce there really is.. Most people seem to be very positive about it.


The improvement is pretty significant, and very noticeable.


Quote:

Is it possible to just order the wooden cups and install them yourself?


Used to be able to do that, I don't know if Larry offers them separately anymore.
 
Dec 10, 2004 at 4:14 PM Post #13 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by zool
Is it possible to just order the wooden cups and install them yourself?


I only offer woodies with a recable for a few reasons. Mostly, the amount of work to make them. From my point of view, it's like the customer is getting the recable as a bonus.
tongue.gif
 
Dec 10, 2004 at 4:46 PM Post #14 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanadu777
I only offer woodies with a recable for a few reasons. Mostly, the amount of work to make them. From my point of view, it's like the customer is getting the recable as a bonus.
tongue.gif



IC, but on the other hand this forces the customer to send their headphone to you under a period of time which could be experienced as long. Even though this might be worth it, I still think there should be a option where you can only buy the woody cups.
 
Dec 10, 2004 at 5:02 PM Post #15 of 23
Quote:

Originally Posted by zool
IC, but on the other hand this forces the customer to send their headphone to you under a period of time which could be experienced as long. Even though this might be worth it, I still think there should be a option where you can only buy the woody cups.


Usually 2 weeks from sending to receiving is about right. I would think if one was to purchase a recable/woody they could forfeit the recable and have just the woodies shipped. Like ordering a full course steak dinner and only eating the salad, the price wouldn't change...
 

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