[yancore]

Hiii Guys ...

I want to ask ... Previously I used the adapter made by DD DJ3.5A as my First Experiment Tester in the Second Mini DAC (SHANLING UP2 & UP4), as a result the sound output (Left) was missing (Unstable, must be rotated or pressed a little / In playing the Jack, sometimes it works normally ... But still it's not normal to feel annoying sounds often missing one side) ... I wonder what is the problem is the size of Guys ???

There is no problem with my collection cable, nor in both the Mini DAC SHANLING UP2 & UP4 without the help of the DD DJ3.5A adapter connector ... But when I want to use the cable collection in the 2.5MM MALE BALANCE Jack OYAIDE with the help of the DD DJ3.5A adapter connector (MALE 3.5MM to FEMALE 2.5MM) In the 3.5MM hole there was a trouble in his voice (Missing the next voice / Not normal) ... Please give a solution Guys ...

 

[Shanling]

Hiii Guys ... ☺

I want to ask ... Previously I used the adapter made by DD DJ3.5A as my First Experiment Tester in the Second Mini DAC (SHANLING UP2 & UP4), as a result the sound output (Left) was missing (Unstable, must be rotated or pressed a little / In playing the Jack, sometimes it works normally ... But still it's not normal to feel annoying sounds often missing one side) ... I wonder what is the problem is the size of Guys ???

There is no problem with my collection cable, nor in both the Mini DAC SHANLING UP2 & UP4 without the help of the DD DJ3.5A adapter connector ... But when I want to use the cable collection in the 2.5MM MALE BALANCE Jack OYAIDE with the help of the DD DJ3.5A adapter connector (MALE 3.5MM to FEMALE 2.5MM) In the 3.5MM hole there was a trouble in his voice (Missing the next voice / Not normal) ... Please give a solution Guys ...

I'm not exactly sure what you are connecting to what.
You have the 2.5mm balanced connector on some cable going to headphones or some different device? And is it connected correctly balanced layout?

 

[yancore]

I'm not exactly sure what you are connecting to what.
You have the 2.5mm balanced connector on some cable going to headphones or some different device? And is it connected correctly balanced layout?

If I use without the adapter connector (Directly using it on Mini DAC especially UP4 there is no problem) ... But when I use it in both 3.5MM holes in SHANLING UP2 & UP4 using the help of the adapter connector ... Instead the sound is missing next to the next left (As I explained above before) ... This is just a simple tester as Audiophile Newbie & My curiosity to compare / be compared in terms of sound whether there is a significant difference or not in as much detail / detail as possible, if Plug Jack MALE 2.5 MM is connected using the adapter connector options in the 3.5MM jack hole ... (I use Classic Original IEM from SHURE SE215 + LG V30 PLUS that I Full Mod Customize & Combine in terms of Brand Cable & Jack Premium as a tester for my First Experiment in second Mini DAC Shanling UP2 & UP4, Especially the tester in the 3.5MM hole using the choice of the most suitable adapter connector & suitable supa yes harmonious & in line) ...

I personally am not / Less interested in jumbo sized DAP, with super fantastic prices that don't make sense (Price out of common sense) ... Prefer to use more practical & simple and certainly quality with mini size, rather than concerned with the amount of nominal quantity unreasonable, according to / according to my needs & characteristics personally ...

 

[Shanling]

If I use without the adapter connector (Directly using it on Mini DAC especially UP4 there is no problem) ... But when I use it in both 3.5MM holes in SHANLING UP2 & UP4 using the help of the adapter connector ... Instead the sound is missing next to the next left (As I explained above before) ... This is just a simple tester as Audiophile Newbie & My curiosity to compare / be compared in terms of sound whether there is a significant difference or not in as much detail / detail as possible, if Plug Jack MALE 2.5 MM is connected using the adapter connector options in the 3.5MM jack hole ... (I use Classic Original IEM from SHURE SE215 + LG V30 PLUS that I Full Mod Customize & Combine in terms of Brand Cable & Jack Premium as a tester for my First Experiment in second Mini DAC Shanling UP2 & UP4, Especially the tester in the 3.5MM hole using the choice of the most suitable adapter connector & suitable supa yes harmonious & in line) ...

I personally am not / Less interested in jumbo sized DAP, with super fantastic prices that don't make sense (Price out of common sense) ... Prefer to use more practical & simple and certainly quality with mini size, rather than concerned with the amount of nominal quantity unreasonable, according to / according to my needs & characteristics personally ... ☺

When you try to use this adapter in other device, like your LG phone, it works fine?

 

[cattboy]

@Shanling

Hello

Wanting to use a Shanling product as an LDAC Transmitter for my PC. My question is latency and release dates.

Which of the products have the lowest latency for using over USB as an LDAC Transmitter?
http://en.shanling.com/category/237

Bluetooth Codecs in general have a delay and I would like to reduce it as much as possible.
SBC: 150-250 ms
aptX: 130-180 ms
AAC: 190-240 ms
LDAC: 160-210 ms

What is the release date of these products? From newest to oldest.

If anyone else has any comments around LDAC Transmitter from PC to headphones (XM3/4 in my case) please share. Now that Sony's XM4 have dropped aptX support I'll be forced to either AAC or SBC for computer audio which is where my research began learning all the bluetooth codecs eventually ending up here

Many thanks

 

[yancore]

When you try to use this adapter in other device, like your LG phone, it works fine?

Sorry Guys ... Just replied today due to busy work activities ... So the DD adapter when connected to my LG V30 PLUS, as well as the problem does not usually run normally ... So I tried to sell it & for the adapter itself there was no damage at all ... And I switched to the adapter model from Hidizs Jack Male 3.5MM to Female Balanced 2.5MM running flawlessly in both UP2 & UP4 class mini-portables as my personal Experiment & Puzzle the most basic comparison formulas without the slightest glitch ... What I can't stop thinking about, why brands like DD are not full support at UP2 & UP4, even in the class of classic premium smartphones (High Quality Premium Smartphone Category in the best AUDIOPHILE class) in their time, the LG V30 PLUS also doesn't work perfectly ... It's a pity absolutely not Guys ...

 

[pstickne]

AAC should be used on iOS only, unless something finally was released on Androids that i’m not aware and sounds decent. license of AAC i s held by apple itself and others fail to be implement it with similar SQ

I don’t think it’s “licensing” so much as Apple putting in more effort (HW and software) here - wouldn’t the license be for AAC itself, not the implementation?

Regardless, I too recommend AAC (only on) Apple as the numbers show how efficient the protocol can be (effective compression; not power or latency), and how much it depends on implementations “being good”.

 

[pstickne]

Bluetooth Codecs in general have a delay and I would like to reduce it as much as possible..

aptX LL (Low Latency, not normal or HD) is the only “guaranteed real-time” BT codec, although SBC can come close-ish depending on implementation. Implementation matters a lot (with SBC) and seems hit or miss as it’s quite a “flexible” protocol.. with lower settings generally having less latency and less overall quality. It IS technically possible to get < 50ms with SBC.

aptX LL trades latency for “quality” (overall useful information rate, don’t pay attention to “on-wire” bitrates for BT audio between protocols).. basically, aptX LL GUARANTEES lower latency AT the expense of SQ.

So if time-sync REALLY matters, and BT must be used, and the reference source (eg. video, game alert) cannot be delayed.. then aptX LL is THE protocol to seek.

Compare usages like video (some people are more sensitive to audio/visual sync) vs normal conversations (we adapt to small delay in conversation anyway, sometimes awkwardly) vs performance gaming (critical twitch reactions, SQ less relevant) and music listening (delay not really relevant, SQ is important).

tldr: delay is reduced largely by quality of implementation AND by reducing the information transmitted, which aptX LL guarantees (and SBC can do).

 

[RadarJammer]

@Shanling
Wanting to use a Shanling product as an LDAC Transmitter for my PC. My question is latency and release dates.

Which of the products have the lowest latency for using over USB as an LDAC Transmitter?
http://en.shanling.com/category/237

The fairly new Q1 can work as a USB audio to BT LDAC transmitter on a PC. It is essentially a multi purpose device. It just does not decode any aptX when used as a receiver.

 

[cattboy]

The fairly new Q1 can work as a USB audio to BT LDAC transmitter on a PC. It is essentially a multi purpose device. It just does not decode any aptX when used as a receiver.

Thanks for the information, the specs for the Q1 say "Transmit only aptX", I'm assuming it only allows base aptX codec? Or does it include aptX LL & HD ?

So if time-sync REALLY matters, and BT must be used, and the reference source (eg. video, game alert) cannot be delayed.. then aptX LL is THE protocol to seek.

Compare usages like video (some people are more sensitive to audio/visual sync) vs normal conversations (we adapt to small delay in conversation anyway, sometimes awkwardly) vs performance gaming (critical twitch reactions, SQ less relevant) and music listening (delay not really relevant, SQ is important).

tldr: delay is reduced largely quality of implementation AND by reducing the information transmitted, which aptX LL guarantees (and SBC can do).

Appreciate the reply. I want to have my cake and eat it too Having both aptX LL and LDAC options would be ideal to avoid carrying around 2 BT Transmitters and switch between the codecs with ease.

However I've been unable to find a Transmitter that supports LDAC & aptX LL, any recommendations?

During research I've found;
Transmitter: (Ability to change between LDAC and aptX-LL as needed)

1. Shanling Q1, LDAC, AAC, SBC, Transmit only aptX - (If this include aptX-LL we have a winner!)
2. Creative BT-W3 SBC, aptX, aptX Low Latency, aptX HD Missing LDAC
3. Fiio M11, HWA/LDAC/aptX HD/aptX/SBC Missing aptX Low Latency -- All Fiios are missing Low Latency transmit

Receivers: (Plug headhpones into receiver with 3.5mm stereo jack to enable aptX-LL, headphones has native LDAC support)

1. UGREEN Bluetooth Receiver 5.0, SBC, aptX, aptX Low Latency, AAC
2. Bluetooth Adapter for Headphones. aptX-HD, aptX-LL, aptX, FastStream, SBC
3. Fiio BTR1K, AAC, aptX and aptX LL
4. Avantree Clipper Pro aptX Low Latency Bluetooth 4.2, SBC, aptX, aptX Low Latency
5. Fiio BTR3k, AAC/SBC/aptX/aptX LL/ aptX HD/LDAC - BOTH!
6. Fiio BTR5, AAC/SBC/aptX/aptX LL/ aptX HD/LDAC -BOTH!
7. Fiio BTR3, AAC/SBC/aptX/aptX LL/ aptX HD/LDAC/LHDC -BOTH!

Thanks everyone for the interest

 

[RadarJammer]

Thanks for the information, the specs for the Q1 say "Transmit only aptX", I'm assuming it only allows base aptX codec? Or does it include aptX LL & HD ?
...
During research I've found;
Transmitter: (Ability to change between LDAC and aptX-LL as needed)

1. Shanling Q1, LDAC, AAC, SBC, Transmit only aptX - (If this include aptX-LL we have a winner!)
2. Creative BT-W3 SBC, aptX, aptX Low Latency, aptX HD Missing LDAC
3. Fiio M11, HWA/LDAC/aptX HD/aptX/SBC Missing aptX Low Latency -- All Fiios are missing Low Latency transmit

Receivers: (Plug headhpones into receiver with 3.5mm stereo jack to enable aptX-LL, headphones has native LDAC support)

1. UGREEN Bluetooth Receiver 5.0, SBC, aptX, aptX Low Latency, AAC
2. Bluetooth Adapter for Headphones. aptX-HD, aptX-LL, aptX, FastStream, SBC
3. Fiio BTR1K, AAC, aptX and aptX LL
4. Avantree Clipper Pro aptX Low Latency Bluetooth 4.2, SBC, aptX, aptX Low Latency
5. Fiio BTR3k, AAC/SBC/aptX/aptX LL/ aptX HD/LDAC - BOTH!
6. Fiio BTR5, AAC/SBC/aptX/aptX LL/ aptX HD/LDAC -BOTH!
7. Fiio BTR3, AAC/SBC/aptX/aptX LL/ aptX HD/LDAC/LHDC -BOTH!

Thanks everyone for the interest

Re Q1: it transmits only the simple form of aptX.

As receivers both Shanling UP2 and UP4 support AAC/SBC/aptX/aptX LL/ aptX HD/LDAC/LHDC=HWA(!)

I've paired Q1 and UP4 for LDAC transmission.

I bought the Creative BT-W3. It is only 16 bit on Windows but it works flawlessly in any mode as advertised (reliable manual switching between codecs and to headset profile)

I believe the splitt between LDAC transmitters and aptX LL/HD transmitters is because of chipset. Qualcomm offers specific chipsets for aptX LL and HD to manufacturers, while I don't know if something similar is available for LDAC processing.

 

[cattboy]

Thanks for the info on Q1, UP2/4 and BT-W3.

I believe the split between LDAC transmitters and aptX LL/HD transmitters is because of chipset. Qualcomm offers specific chipsets for aptX LL and HD to manufacturers, while I don't know if something similar is available for LDAC processing.

LDAC processing can be used if the manufacturer/OEM pays a licensing fee to Sony for usage. A Qualcomm chipped transmitter that has paid Sonys license fees to include LDAC must exist. The dream is LDAC on Windows natively but we all know Sony won't let that happen because they'll lose $$$

This wouldn't be such a big issue but the new WH-1000XM4 (ANC industry leader) dropped aptX codec support, meaning using them on a PC has become... PAINFUL.


edit: @RadarJammer I re-read your post LHDC and LLAC are relatively new. Are there any Transmitters for LLAC you've come across? The maybe a better alternative as its 400/600 kbit/s, bit-depth of up to 24 bit and sample rate of up to 48 kHz

Seems the LHDC Product catalog is very thin right now

 

[RadarJammer]

...


edit: @RadarJammer I re-read your post LHDC and LLAC are relatively new. Are there any Transmitters for LLAC you've come across? The maybe a better alternative as its 400/600 kbit/s, bit-depth of up to 24 bit and sample rate of up to 48 kHz

Seems the LHDC Product catalog is very thin right now

Wikipedia just confirmed my experience: HWA (used by Huawei on many Android phones) and LHDC are the same. When I got my Xiaomi Mi 10 Lite 5G (SD765G) early June and paired it to my UP4, the smartphone showed a connection with LHDC and the UP4 blinked white for HWA.

The Xiaomi has SBC, AAC, aptX, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive, aptX TWS+, LDAC, LHDC V1, V2 and V3 Codecs.

I haven't seen any Androids with aptX LL.

And I haven't heard about LLAC until now ...
The Huawei P30 must have been the first phone (and last Google Services top Huawei) with that - but nothing to connect to? Chinese proprietary tech is doomed atm, anyway.

 

[cattboy]

And I haven't heard about LLAC until now ...
The Huawei P30 must have been the first phone (and last Google Services top Huawei) with that - but nothing to connect to? Chinese proprietary tech is doomed atm, anyway.

I've emailed a few and "I would advise you to hold on to any further LHDC purchase; there are some changes to the standard, and we will be making a big announcement next month. It will be in-line with the adoption of LHDC on Android phones. As for the LHDC Transmitter USB-DAC, you have enquired, we are working with a few brands to have it on their USB-DAC offerings, which will be announced on Porta-Fi as soon as its available."

LHDC-LL Seems to be the best of both LDAC & aptX-LL combined, but since its extremely new it will be a few years until mainstream adoption, enthusiasts like you and I will have to really track down new releases with support on both ends.

• HWA Official website
• LHDC Official website
• HWA Compatible Products
• Savitech Official website

 

[Shanling]

Wanting to use a Shanling product as an LDAC Transmitter for my PC. My question is latency and release dates.

Which of the products have the lowest latency for using over USB as an LDAC Transmitter?
http://en.shanling.com/category/237

If anyone else has any comments around LDAC Transmitter from PC to headphones (XM3/4 in my case) please share. Now that Sony's XM4 have dropped aptX support I'll be forced to either AAC or SBC for computer audio which is where my research began learning all the bluetooth codecs eventually ending up here

From our players, M0, M2X, M5s and Q1 are able to serve as USB Bluetooth transmitters. All of them support LDAC. aptX, AAC and SBC codecs.

There is small additional delay when used as USB Bluetooth transmitter, on top of default delay of the codec itself.

May I ask for what purpose are you interested in the lowest possible delay? If it's for gaming, I must recommend to look for transmitter and headphones with aptX LL, as that's only one that will truly offer you lag free performance.

Thanks for the information, the specs for the Q1 say "Transmit only aptX", I'm assuming it only allows base aptX codec? Or does it include aptX LL & HD ?

However I've been unable to find a Transmitter that supports LDAC & aptX LL, any recommendations?

During research I've found;
Transmitter: (Ability to change between LDAC and aptX-LL as needed)

1. Shanling Q1, LDAC, AAC, SBC, Transmit only aptX - (If this include aptX-LL we have a winner!)

On Q1, only standard aptX is supported, no LL or HD.

Wikipedia just confirmed my experience: HWA (used by Huawei on many Android phones) and LHDC are the same. When I got my Xiaomi Mi 10 Lite 5G (SD765G) early June and paired it to my UP4, the smartphone showed a connection with LHDC and the UP4 blinked white for HWA.

HWA was kind of "certification", actual codec used was always LHDC.

In the beginning, many manufacturers were sticking just to HWA, not mentioning LHDC anywhere in marketing or settings. But later they added new codec alongside LHDC, HWA was dropped from Huawei phones, there were other changes, etc. Nowadays more manufacturers are going back to correctly calling it LHDC.