[Levictus]

So, just read through this entire thread... I have been upgrading a lot of my favorite music to flac and really want to get a DAP. I got sucked into the Hidizs AP200 but quickly realized I was looking for a more finished product and I didn’t need/want an Android interface. After much research and my max $300 budget, I landed here.

I know this sounds very non-audiophile, but my main use for this player will be streaming music to demo/display Bluetooth portable speakers. I want to expand my storage and library and hopefully get better sound. I’m thinking this player ticks a lot of my boxes. Thoughts? Any better options? M2s? Thanks in advance for your time...

 

[PinkyPowers]

So, just read through this entire thread... I have been upgrading a lot of my favorite music to flac and really want to get a DAP. I got sucked into the Hidizs AP200 but quickly realized I was looking for a more finished product and I didn’t need/want an Android interface. After much research and my max $300 budget, I landed here.

I know this sounds very non-audiophile, but my main use for this player will be streaming music to demo/display Bluetooth portable speakers. I want to expand my storage and library and hopefully get better sound. I’m thinking this player ticks a lot of my boxes. Thoughts? Any better options? M2s? Thanks in advance for your time...

Streaming to BT speakers, the quality of sound is utterly reliant on the hardware within the speakers. The DAC and amp of the M3s is bypassed, and the data is sent to the DAC inside the speakers. So, under this usage, no DAP will sound better than any other. Well... besides the subtle differences in BT tech, like AptX and what have you.

 

[Shanling]

@Shanling, how are repairs handled after the warranty expires? Is the customer still supposed to go through the seller? At this point a repair rather than replacement would be expected?

For players outside of warranty, you would need to ship them directly to our factory in China, where we would repair the unit. Some small fee might be charged (should be around 7 USD for repair of wheel)

I am not seeing an option to format the card in M3s, unless I am not looking in the right place.

But a somewhat related question: when formatting the card in a PC (via card reader), what is the preferred format: exFAT? FAT32?

Shanling players doesn't have "format card" option.

I have my cards in both exfat and fat32, doesn't make difference for Shanling players.

This just happened Bought mines from MusicTech but unfortunately the cost of shipping it back to them for an exchange is on me. Being in Hawaii the cost of shipping is a little more. I also owned the m1s and m2s and those had solid builds so I was confident the m3s would have the same quality build.

Oh wow, that makes the timing of my previous post exceptionally poor. Some people in the M2s thread have had the same issue. What's going on Shanling?

Having said that, i am starting to wonder if for some reason the M3S is prone to those issues. That is becoming a rather common issue here.

So the full story goes like this:

In last month we were experiencing slight increase in these wheel problems, both on Chinese and international market. Surprisingly, it was increased even for M2s, which was working without any problems in previous 6 months. Deeper look into that batch of M2s and M3s revealed that in some cases, one metal part in wheel mechanism wasn't perfectly circular, but slightly ellipsoidal, causing failure of wheel. Yet even this problem was pretty rare compared to amount of units shipped. If you go through M3s thread for past month, you will find only two broken wheels (but them both happening in past 5 days can make it feel like something bigger).

We terminated cooperation with supplier of this part and went for different one, demanding tighter specifications. Currently shipping batch of M2s and M3s players is using this new improved part and in China (where we sell directly) the new batch is showing great results and pretty much eliminated wheels problem altogether.

It's unfortunate problem, but we rushed to fix it as soon as possible and we will support anybody that suffered from it. We believe this limited run of slightly more "vulnerable" units will affect only small amount of users and of course we will replace any unit that experience wheel problems.

 

[Shanling]

I know this sounds very non-audiophile, but my main use for this player will be streaming music to demo/display Bluetooth portable speakers. I want to expand my storage and library and hopefully get better sound. I’m thinking this player ticks a lot of my boxes. Thoughts? Any better options? M2s? Thanks in advance for your time...

If your main usage will be for bluetooth, M2s and M1 will serve you as good for less money and in smaller size. Between them the decision is mainly about controls and size.

 

[Levictus]

Streaming to BT speakers, the quality of sound is utterly reliant on the hardware within the speakers. The DAC and amp of the M3s is bypassed, and the data is sent to the DAC inside the speakers. So, under this usage, no DAP will sound better than any other. Well... besides the subtle differences in BT tech, like AptX and what have you.

Ugh, you are right, of course. I just got that not so smart feeling . For me I guess, the Bluetooth 4.1 and AptX are important features considering use. Thanks...

 

[Levictus]

If your main usage will be for bluetooth, M2s and M1 will serve you as good for less money and in smaller size. Between them the decision is mainly about controls and size.

I will take a look at those...thanks

 

[jmac1516]

So the full story goes like this:

In last month we were experiencing slight increase in these wheel problems, both on Chinese and international market. Surprisingly, it was increased even for M2s, which was working without any problems in previous 6 months. Deeper look into that batch of M2s and M3s revealed that in some cases, one metal part in wheel mechanism wasn't perfectly circular, but slightly ellipsoidal, causing failure of wheel. Yet even this problem was pretty rare compared to amount of units shipped. If you go through M3s thread for past month, you will find only two broken wheels (but them both happening in past 5 days can make it feel like something bigger).

We terminated cooperation with supplier of this part and went for different one, demanding tighter specifications. Currently shipping batch of M2s and M3s players is using this new improved part and in China (where we sell directly) the new batch is showing great results and pretty much eliminated wheels problem altogether.

It's unfortunate problem, but we rushed to fix it as soon as possible and we will support anybody that suffered from it. We believe this limited run of slightly more "vulnerable" units will affect only small amount of users and of course we will replace any unit that experience wheel problems.

Is there a batch of serial numbers we could check on our units to determine if we have one with a defective part? I have not yet opened the M3s that I purchased and was considering giving to someone as a Christmas gift. But not if the wheel has risk of falling off.

 

[Shanling]

Is there a batch of serial numbers we could check on our units to determine if we have one with a defective part? I have not yet opened the M3s that I purchased and was considering giving to someone as a Christmas gift. But not if the wheel has risk of falling off.

No one can tell if you have defective part or not.

 

[435279]

@Shanling Its too late for my m2s now its been sold, but I'm worried the same thing will happen to my m3s. How about setting up a supply of these controls either FOC or for a small cost?

It looks like you may have a (perhaps minor) issue with this rotary control, I believe its a common part on m2s and m3s.

The screen, at least on the m2s was very easy to remove, its not glued its held in with clips, I simply used a sucker to apply light force to the screen and worked around the clips until they were all released. It was simple to then remove two screws holding the control and unclip the flexy circuit. If I had access to the part I would have a working m2s now.

I for one would be OK with loosing my warranty, I effectively had none anyway. This would go a long way in my opinion to fixing the damage this issue could be doing to your sales.

 

[Shanling]

@Shanling Its too late for my m2s now its been sold, but I'm worried the same thing will happen to my m3s. How about setting up a supply of these controls either FOC or for a small cost?

It looks like you may have a (perhaps minor) issue with this rotary control, I believe its a common part on m2s and m3s.

The screen, at least on the m2s was very easy to remove, its not glued its held in with clips, I simply used a sucker to apply light force to the screen and worked around the clips until they were all released. It was simple to then remove two screws holding the control and unclip the flexy circuit. If I had access to the part I would have a working m2s now.

I for one would be OK with loosing my warranty, I effectively had none anyway. This would go a long way in my opinion to fixing the damage this issue could be doing to your sales.

Not many people is as adventurous to start opening their players, when simply warranty exchange is possible.

For others, if you want to do something like this, you can always PM me here and we can see what we can workout for you.

 

[435279]

Not many people is as adventurous to start opening their players, when simply warranty exchange is possible.

For others, if you want to do something like this, you can always PM me here and we can see what we can workout for you.

Thank you, that sounds excellent, I will be sending you a PM later, I will feel much happier using my m3s if I have access to a spare part.

 

[dlayman]

For players outside of warranty, you would need to ship them directly to our factory in China, where we would repair the unit. Some small fee might be charged (should be around 7 USD for repair of wheel)



Shanling players doesn't have "format card" option.

I have my cards in both exfat and fat32, doesn't make difference for Shanling players.







So the full story goes like this:

In last month we were experiencing slight increase in these wheel problems, both on Chinese and international market. Surprisingly, it was increased even for M2s, which was working without any problems in previous 6 months. Deeper look into that batch of M2s and M3s revealed that in some cases, one metal part in wheel mechanism wasn't perfectly circular, but slightly ellipsoidal, causing failure of wheel. Yet even this problem was pretty rare compared to amount of units shipped. If you go through M3s thread for past month, you will find only two broken wheels (but them both happening in past 5 days can make it feel like something bigger).

We terminated cooperation with supplier of this part and went for different one, demanding tighter specifications. Currently shipping batch of M2s and M3s players is using this new improved part and in China (where we sell directly) the new batch is showing great results and pretty much eliminated wheels problem altogether.

It's unfortunate problem, but we rushed to fix it as soon as possible and we will support anybody that suffered from it. We believe this limited run of slightly more "vulnerable" units will affect only small amount of users and of course we will replace any unit that experience wheel problems.

Having experienced failure of the wheel on my M3, I think your explanation of the problem seems reasonable. Fortunately I was able to self repair the unit. Good to know a non- warranty repair is possible and reasonably priced. Having seen the design of the M3 wheel close up, o think using some adhesive to mate the surfaces of the various parts of the wheel would help to eliminate the problem. The M3 wheel relied on only friction between surfaces in order to function. Applying adhesive is how I fixed mine.

 

[Howlin Fester]

Anybody else have the issue mentioned by Pinky Powers in his review with noise from being too near a cell phone with this device?

I should mention, my Galaxy S6 always has Bluetooth and WiFi turned On. So it could be one of those signals interfering with the DAP, not just Cell signal.

Thank you for mentioning the noise. Now i know where the noise that i heard sometime came from. I thought something wrong with my cable, i planned to send back to check. Cus everytime i go out with my m3s, i change d songs i heard noisy sound (not the sound that i heard when i used bluetooth). But when i was back home, no more.
I just put the m3s and my samsung s8 plus in the same pocket and i heard that sound again...

Yeah, it should only be audible when your phone is within a few inches of the DAP.

Hi guys. This conversation forced me to look up some old information I've posted before about this issue, and I wrote up a little snippet that I can copy-paste. So thanks for that. I've been meaning to do this for a while. What you are describing is Discontinuous Transmit in your cellular phone.

Discontinuous Transmit
I am a Radio Frequency Engineer since 1994, and have a BS in Electrical Engineering. The static or clicking sound that is heard on DAPs, radios, speakers, etc. can be attributed to a phenomena called Discontinuous Transmit. Mobile phones will turn their transmitters on and off during the sending of data to and from the tower. It will usually have a repeating pattern like this. Transmit – Receive – idle – repeat. That is why it is called discontinuous transmit. Because the phone transmitter turns on and off very quickly; it doesn’t transmit continuously.

Modulation schemes that are time based like Time Division Multiplexing (TDM) or Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM 64, QAM 128) the phone will send short bursts of Radio Frequency energy in an on/off format for digital ones and zeros. Those bursts of discontinuous transmit can cause a third order harmonic that is in the audible range. That third order harmonic has such power and amplitude that the magnetic field induces the frequency into the passive electronics if they are close enough to the source. That is the reason that one can hear clicking and static-like artifacts in your music while being close to a phone.

If the phone is just sitting idle, it still needs to communicate to the towers periodically to update location information and other hand-shaking information. If the phone is in an active data session or phone call, the noise should be more consistent.

To reduce the effects of discontinuous transmit, you can separate your mobile phone from your DAP. Simply moving it to different pockets if you are carrying them together. Or move them 6 to 8 inches apart should be enough if sitting on a desk.

Hope this helps. [End of my write-up]

[Specific to this thread]
Regarding bluetooth and wifi: I am positive that this is an issue with cellular phones, but I'm not positive about the effects of wi-fi and bluetooth. The harmonics that are generated are a product of all the frequencies involved and the frequency of the on-off transmissions. To figure out if it is an issue, one has to take all of the transmitting frequencies, receive frequencies, on-off transmission frequency and complete Fourier transforms on them. Then identify the 3rd order harmonic products. If those 3rd order harmonic products are in the audible range, then it can be an issue.

Since it has been 20 years or more since I've done Fourier transforms, I will leave this evaluation to some younger people who are closer to their college math than I am.

 

[PinkyPowers]

Hi guys. This conversation forced me to look up some old information I've posted before about this issue, and I wrote up a little snippet that I can copy-paste. So thanks for that. I've been meaning to do this for a while. What you are describing is Discontinuous Transmit in your cellular phone.

Discontinuous Transmit
I am a Radio Frequency Engineer since 1994, and have a BS in Electrical Engineering. The static or clicking sound that is heard on DAPs, radios, speakers, etc. can be attributed to a phenomena called Discontinuous Transmit. Mobile phones will turn their transmitters on and off during the sending of data to and from the tower. It will usually have a repeating pattern like this. Transmit – Receive – idle – repeat. That is why it is called discontinuous transmit. Because the phone transmitter turns on and off very quickly; it doesn’t transmit continuously.

Modulation schemes that are time based like Time Division Multiplexing (TDM) or Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM 64, QAM 128) the phone will send short bursts of Radio Frequency energy in an on/off format for digital ones and zeros. Those bursts of discontinuous transmit can cause a third order harmonic that is in the audible range. That third order harmonic has such power and amplitude that the magnetic field induces the frequency into the passive electronics if they are close enough to the source. That is the reason that one can hear clicking and static-like artifacts in your music while being close to a phone.

If the phone is just sitting idle, it still needs to communicate to the towers periodically to update location information and other hand-shaking information. If the phone is in an active data session or phone call, the noise should be more consistent.

To reduce the effects of discontinuous transmit, you can separate your mobile phone from your DAP. Simply moving it to different pockets if you are carrying them together. Or move them 6 to 8 inches apart should be enough if sitting on a desk.

Hope this helps. [End of my write-up]

[Specific to this thread]
Regarding bluetooth and wifi: I am positive that this is an issue with cellular phones, but I'm not positive about the effects of wi-fi and bluetooth. The harmonics that are generated are a product of all the frequencies involved and the frequency of the on-off transmissions. To figure out if it is an issue, one has to take all of the transmitting frequencies, receive frequencies, on-off transmission frequency and complete Fourier transforms on them. Then identify the 3rd order harmonic products. If those 3rd order harmonic products are in the audible range, then it can be an issue.

Since it has been 20 years or more since I've done Fourier transforms, I will leave this evaluation to some younger people who are closer to their college math than I am.

Very nice. Thanks. That is very much what I experience with DAPs like M2s, M3s, and Opus#1. I don't experience this with the Opus#2, being encased in a metal frame seems to block out this signal. AKA, a Faraday Cage.

The M3s is made of metal, but I guess it's not enough.

 

[PierreC]

Hi guys.
I am currently in Canada, so I would like to know if someone knows a Canadian reseller (Online preferred, or local around Vancouver, BC) where I could find/buy the M3s.
Thank you in advance!