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Shanling M0 - Nano size, touch screen, LDAC & aptX BT, USB DAC/transport and ESS Sabre ES9218P, FW 3.2

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by Shanling, Mar 16, 2018.
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  1. fish1050
    Don't speak for me, my point was simply that if you are concerned about mp3's not being as good as flac because of compression. Then ogg might be a better option if you are worried about the quality of compressed tracks. No desire for war just pointing out that all factors need to be considered when making comparisons. In this case mp3 is lossy but available in multiple bit rates so when comparing a lossless format like flac to a lossy one be it mp3 or ogg and saying you hear a difference then bit rate needs to be specified. There was a time not long ago that 192 kbps tracks purchased online were considered as acceptable quality. But clearly 192 kbps vs lossless is definitely not a fair comparison. The only fair comparison when comparing lossless to lossy is lossy at the highest possible bit rate (quality).
  2. Akabander
    Am I too old to get a hong bao from Uncle Shanling?
  3. Dramlin
    @Shanling it seems I'll need some more help. If you recall, a few weeks ago my first M0 player stopped communicating with external DAC's out of nowhere (at one point it just said "Audio Disconnected" while successfully playing, and since then it no longer connects to any DACs). I've been using my second M0 player for the last two weeks and now it won't connect to any DAC either. The events leading up to the issue are different on the second M0 though. What happened this time is that I connected the M0 to my Fiio E17K and, in my mistake, I forgot that the E17 had USB charge set to "ON". When the M0 was connected the E17 attempted to charge from the M0, the M0 battery indicator immediately went red, and then the M0 said "Audio Disconnected". Now the M0 no longer connects to any DAC. Just like my first unit, everything works as expected except the external DAC feature. I've attempted all the normal troubleshooting (factory reset, pin reset, removed card, etc...).

    Could you ask the developers again as to if there is any way for this to be a software issue, where the external DAC feature gets stuck? Both of my M0's are past the return period, so I'm realllly hoping that some future firmware change could fix my units.
  4. rdale
    If you've got a 128gb sad card you can fit nearly 300 FLAC or Apple Lossless albums onto it. That is a massive amount of storage. And if you get bored with those 300 albums it is easy to swap them out for some new choices. I use a 400gb SD card with my M0 as do several other people on this list. which makes it even more pointless to use MP3s to 'save space' when you actually got all the space in the world.
    barondla likes this.
  5. fish1050
    Of course you can't put back what was already removed so up converting from lossy to lossless is pointless. Without getting into all the details you have, LDAC HQ is suppose to be capable of 990 Kbps but the best I get with LDAC is 906 Kbps. AptxHD is 576 Kbps max and CD quality is 1411 Kbps so even the best bluetooth codec LDAC HQ is lossy. But having said that and having used LDAC for years with my Sony A17 and Sony receiver I can't hear a difference between LDAC HQ and LDAC standard at 660 kbps and standard is more stable with better range so I generally use it. AptX Adaptive will eventually be available from Qualcomm which claims it can handle 24 bit 48 KHZ but again it will still be lossy.

    I don't use bluetooth headphones, I stick to wired always because bluetooth will never sound as good as wired. Bluetooth is a convenient wireless option but not the best for sound quality. It was never designed to carry audio it started as a wireless technology to send data to printers. The audio industry took it and tried to adapt it for audio use and by all accounts it works pretty well. I have a couple of Sony LDAC bluetooth speakers and they sound quite good. But for serious listening I use my home system with wired speakers.
  6. fish1050
    Sure but since 320 kbps mp3 and ogg tracks to me sound as good as flac in most cases why not compress some tracks and they you can carry all your tracks and not have to swap anything. I will admit that I tend to convert my older lower resolution tracks from the 60's, 70's and 80's to mp3 initially and now ogg with ogg support on my M0. Newer music I tend to leave as flac as audio recording quality has gotten much better in the last few years. So you could call it situational use of compressed formats when the music in question is older and lower audio quality.
  7. Dramlin
    There's no wrong answer here, it really is just a use case preference for users. Everyone who argues for lossy over flac is correct, and vice versa as it really is just using the right format for your needs.

    I think in general, if you are ripping a CD and you aren't sure what format to use then FLAC is the right default choice. That way you can always re-convert the FLAC to a lossy format to fit your purpose at a later date. In my case I can hear the difference between FLAC and lossy 320kbs (or the highest VBR lame settings). This is probably due to a combination of high end sources (like the M0) and high end headphones. I do also copy all of my FLACS to 320kbs mp3 so that I can get more music attached to my car stereo. I'm sure if I really really try I could probably hear some super subtle difference between FLAC and MP3 in the car, but it's pointless when you are dealing with road noise and a non ideal audio environment.
    fish1050 likes this.
  8. barondla
    I use WAV on the M0. Lots of hi res 24 bit music. Too much trouble preparing different lo res files for a portable. Always go with the best quality and there won't be disappointment later. Do the job right the first time and never have to do it again. Memory is getting larger all the time and less expensive. There's now a 1tb SD card. A 1tb micro SD card can't be far off. Build the best sounding library possible. It will outlive the M0 and still be great on the 26th generation M0!

    Not so sure modern recordings are superior sounding. The tech is available for them to be, but the loudness war, sloppy craftsmanship, watermarking, autotune, etc. ruins many a modern recording.
  9. fish1050
    I agree totally and I guess in a rather long winded fashion that was my point. In my case do I compress some tracks to fit them on my new and unused 128 GB microsd card or do I buy a larger capacity card. For me I don't want to spend more money if I don't need to so I compress tracks that won't necessarily take a hit sound quality wise such as music from 60's and 70's primarily which I have alot of. Now I have all my tracks on my M0 and it didn't cost me anything. :)
    Dramlin likes this.
  10. fish1050
    True enough but I have hundreds of CD's so flac is fine for initial rips to play on my home system. Yes capacity is growing quickly but I don't like throwing perfectly good microsd cards in a drawer to spend money on a bigger card. You can batch convert flac to any format in a few minutes so not really a big deal.

    I have a friend who is a sound engineer and while you can argue about HiRes or not which I don't buy into, recording equipment has improved significantly over the years. It is much more sensitive and able to pickup fine details that decades old gear can't. I have been slowly getting remastered recordings of my older music for the 60's and 70's primarily. Yes some is way over processed but some does sound quite good so you have to be careful as it isn't always an improvement. I find stuff that was remastered in the late 90's and early 2000's is much better than the more recent attempts.

    Oh I agree and there isn't much modern music I like to be honest. I still gravitate to my favorites that are still releasing music. I love the Stones Blue & Lonesome released in 2016. Paul McCartneys Egypt Station, Chris Rea, Pretenders, Paul Carrack,etc.. Love Mark Knopfler and his solo stuff released since 2000 sounds great and shows how good modern recording technology can be when used properly. Really like Robert Plants Raising Sand with Alison Krauss great sounding release and more recent Carry Fire which sounds really good as well. They still understand how to make good recordings. I can count on two hands the number of current bands I like. A big reason I don't invest in a larger microsd card as there isn't much new music to add to my collection and less and less every day.
    barondla likes this.
  11. Natsume

    Another request: I noticed that the M0 scales album cover art to full screen. Thus, all too often covers get cropped. This can look pretty ugly when the lettering is involved. Maybe you can make the scaling optional?
    Nolbert0 likes this.
  12. needmoretoys
    I have a question on playing music by folders. I assume that the folder tab shows top level folders and then the various layers of sub folders. For instance, my top level folders are classical, jazz, new age, etc. Then under classical the sub folders are by composer and then under each composer are the pieces of music folders, like Symphony No 4. With my phone or FiiO X3ii, the screen shows the top level, then when I click on classical it shows the composers, etc. Am I correct in assuming this is how the M0 works in folder view. I have it in my Amazon cart and are about to check out.
  13. fish1050
    the paint around the bezel of the screen obscures the edges of the artwork it cuts off about 18 pixels around the edge. I have fixed some artwork by adding a black 20 pixel border around artwork that has text cut off. So all of the artwork shows and the artwork border is covered by the paint. I used photoshop elements to add the border. A bit of a pain but it works in a pinch vs trying to get Shanling to mess with the scaler.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  14. J Kelley
    I know this an old post, but I have an m3u playlist that contains 495 songs on my M0. I use this playlist on other DAPs without any problems. On the M0, on shuffle or straight play, only the first 100 songs are played. The rest of the list is ignored. Is there a limit on m3u playlists that exists that I missed somewhere?
  15. tjl5709
    Agreed. You cannot go back from lossey to lossless. Digital storage is cheap. If your spending the time to RIP. Do it once. The current crop of audio managers (mediamonkey, foobar.....u pick) makes it so easy to give you what you need for a given situation. I see way too many people stating they took the time to re-rip to get their library back to lossless. Do it right the first time and be done.
    barondla likes this.
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