[abitdeef]

I've been quite clear here and so has Shanling in their response. There is a page from the society that clearly stipulates the parameters for the certification. Look back at the thread some more and you will see that Shanling posted a link.

The Shanling M0 is on their page listed as CERTIFIED along with tons and tons of other items. I told you yonks ago it’s a marketing ploy- JAS gets some kickback and the daps get a meaningless sticker.

Just like when ‘Tommy boy’ talks about the guarantee on the box of brake pads The pops on the beginning of your DSDs have to do with software, which I’m sure will be ironed out- you’ve had your answers. No sense worrying about frequencys you can’t hear and a little gold sticker.

 

[crabdog]

Hi-Res? Certified? 40kHz? What? I don't know and don't care. I just love the M0. LOVE IT!!

 

[P3108]

I know the link, I have read most of the english part of their site because of the discussion here.

I assume you are refering to the items listed under 'Analogue process'.

Yes

 

[geagle]

Hi-Res? Certified? 40kHz? What? I don't know and don't care. I just love the M0. LOVE IT!!

+1 ... I'm honestly constantly amazed how such a tiny thing can sound so good ...

 

[P3108]

Yes

So under analogue:-

"Hi-Res" applicable products JAS defines is to fulfill the following specification on the recording, reproduction and signal transition process
<Analogue process>

• (1) Microphone response performance: 40 kHz or above during recording
• (2) Amplification performance: 40 kHz or above

But also under application:-

'The applicant shall submit the following documents when new product is planned.

• Product information
• System detail with technical specification and measured data that can prove the product satisfies the requirements for Hi-Res AUDIO logo.'

So in theory, Shanling must have submitted measured data that proves that the amplification performance is 40khz or above or JAP are just a total sham.

 

[P3108]

So under analogue:-

"Hi-Res" applicable products JAS defines is to fulfill the following specification on the recording, reproduction and signal transition process
<Analogue process>

• (1) Microphone response performance: 40 kHz or above during recording
• (2) Amplification performance: 40 kHz or above

But also under application:-

'The applicant shall submit the following documents when new product is planned.

• Product information
• System detail with technical specification and measured data that can prove the product satisfies the requirements for Hi-Res AUDIO logo.'

So in theory, Shanling must have submitted measured data that proves that the amplification performance is 40khz or above or JAP are just a total sham.

So under analogue:-

"Hi-Res" applicable products JAS defines is to fulfill the following specification on the recording, reproduction and signal transition process
<Analogue process>

• (1) Microphone response performance: 40 kHz or above during recording
• (2) Amplification performance: 40 kHz or above

But also under application:-

'The applicant shall submit the following documents when new product is planned.

• Product information
• System detail with technical specification and measured data that can prove the product satisfies the requirements for Hi-Res AUDIO logo.'

So in theory, Shanling must have submitted measured data that proves that the amplification performance is 40khz or above or JAP are just a total sham.

I think for me there are 2 concerns regard this Hi-Res Certification:-

1) Are the stipulations that JAP set out actually being adhered to or is it just as you say - cash bung for a sticker?
2) Whilst there are plenty of Chi-Fi products that are listed on their page as having certification you also find a lot of other Chinese headphones for example for sale that will willingly use the logo on boxes and on product pages but they aren't listed on the JAP site and quite clearly don't conform to the JAP stipulated specs. So whereas Shanling headphones are specified as having frequency range of up to 40khz (not that anyone here wants that) and are Hi-Res certified you will find plenty of headphones out there with the logo on the product that are only 20khz.

Either of the above and the logo is no seal of approval.

So why then do say Shanling for example bother with the logo?

DSD needs a fix quick for me to even consider keeping the player. DSD native playback is capable with the chip its the CPU that may well be holding this thing back so not software but hardware?

 

[fish1050]

The Shanling M0 is on their page listed as CERTIFIED along with tons and tons of other items. I told you yonks ago it’s a marketing ploy- JAS gets some kickback and the daps get a meaningless sticker.

Just like when ‘Tommy boy’ talks about the guarantee on the box of brake pads The pops on the beginning of your DSDs have to do with software, which I’m sure will be ironed out- you’ve had your answers. No sense worrying about frequencys you can’t hear and a little gold sticker.

Honestly, don't bother with the HiRes certification and pass the kickback to JAS on to the customer via a lower price. I mean once you put the DAP in a case you can't see the damn sticker anyway. How much does it add to the cost to make and add the sticker to each unit? I would love it if a manufacturer would come out and say "We chose not to submit our products to JAS for HiRes for certification because we feel the sound quality speaks for itself". That is a company whose products I would consider buying.

 

[fish1050]

I think for me there are 2 concerns regard this Hi-Res Certification:-

1) Are the stipulations that JAP set out actually being adhered to or is it just as you say - cash bung for a sticker?
2) Whilst there are plenty of Chi-Fi products that are listed on their page as having certification you also find a lot of other Chinese headphones for example for sale that will willingly use the logo on boxes and on product pages but they aren't listed on the JAP site and quite clearly don't conform to the JAP stipulated specs. So whereas Shanling headphones are specified as having frequency range of up to 40khz (not that anyone here wants that) and are Hi-Res certified you will find plenty of headphones out there with the logo on the product that are only 20khz.

Either of the above and the logo is no seal of approval.

So why then do say Shanling for example bother with the logo?

DSD needs a fix quick for me to even consider keeping the player. DSD native playback is capable with the chip its the CPU that may well be holding this thing back so not software but hardware?

My guess is you are better off returning the M0 and getting something else. If the fix comes to late then you will be complaining how Shanling took to long to fix the problem. I am a consummate complainer, just ask these guys about my firmware update rants. Take it from a professional there is a limit.

 

[P3108]

So which Shanling DAP will do native DSD and I can give that a try?

 

[Shanling]

On the certification do you send a DAP to them for them to test it and confirm it meets their specifications? I'm seriously baffled as to how you don't need to test frequency range to 40khz in the amplifier stage of the chip as that is clearly a stipulation of theirs.

Application process is listed on JAS website: https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en/hi-res-logo-application-process
As you may notice, right away item #2 is Non-Disclosure Agreement.
If you have any more questions regarding Hi-Res certification, you can reach out to JAS.

Why to apply for such certification? As with different certifications in audio, they are accepted by common public as basic "seal of approval". And you know, when one company starts waving it in their marketing, next thing you can expect is questions from customers why it isn't on your players.

And of course you can just slap random sticker on your player without certification by JAS. But don't be surprised when email from JAS lawyers arrive some time later.

So which Shanling DAP will do native DSD and I can give that a try?

On M2s and M3s, native DSD was added with later firmware. If it's for you such crucial function, I recommend to try these.

 

[originalsnuffy]

Maybe some of the rants about the Hires certification should be in their own thread. I must admit I am a bit tired of it. I understand that some people here are very passionate about that sort of thing, but most of us just focus on the sound quality of the unit.

There is an interesting question that was raised somewhere along the way. If I recall, there are some pops and clicks on DSD tracks that should be fixed on a future firmware release. Somebody also implied that the unit does not have native DSD processing. Is that really true? I know the M1 did not have that, but converted DSD to PCM on the fly. What is the story here?

I mainly play my DSD files on my Cayin N5ii; but I have considered moving some onto the M0 also so it would be nice to know what the situation is.

 

[P3108]

Application process is listed on JAS website: https://www.jas-audio.or.jp/english/hi-res-logo-en/hi-res-logo-application-process
As you may notice, right away item #2 is Non-Disclosure Agreement.
If you have any more questions regarding Hi-Res certification, you can reach out to JAS.

Why to apply for such certification? As with different certifications in audio, they are accepted by common public as basic "seal of approval". And you know, when one company starts waving it in their marketing, next thing you can expect is questions from customers why it isn't on your players.

And of course you can just slap random sticker on your player without certification by JAS. But don't be surprised when email from JAS lawyers arrive some time later.



On M2s and M3s, native DSD was added with later firmware. If it's for you such crucial function, I recommend to try these.

Thanks. That sounds like native DSD isn't coming to the M0 anytime soon then.

 

[P3108]

Maybe some of the rants about the Hires certification should be in their own thread. I must admit I am a bit tired of it. I understand that some people here are very passionate about that sort of thing, but most of us just focus on the sound quality of the unit.

There is an interesting question that was raised somewhere along the way. If I recall, there are some pops and clicks on DSD tracks that should be fixed on a future firmware release. Somebody also implied that the unit does not have native DSD processing. Is that really true? I know the M1 did not have that, but converted DSD to PCM on the fly. What is the story here?

I mainly play my DSD files on my Cayin N5ii; but I have considered moving some onto the M0 also so it would be nice to know what the situation is.

The chip is native DSD capable but the software is configured to use either D2P or DoP and not native transport to the DAC as apparently there were problems with native in the build. Click is I believe an inherent problem with D2P/DoP and needs a leading silence in the software to fix it. Native DSD is possible in the hardware side....

 

[Vimtoman]

The chip is native DSD capable but the software is configured to use either D2P or DoP and not native transport to the DAC as apparently there were problems with native in the build. Click is I believe an inherent problem with D2P/DoP and needs a leading silence in the software to fix it. Native DSD is possible in the hardware side....

I must admit the click does bother me.
I tend to go with Flac on this unit and dont really expect more of it due to the price of £75 I spent on it.
Maybe when M0S comes out it will have that sorted.

 

[Shanling]

Somebody also implied that the unit does not have native DSD processing. Is that really true? I know the M1 did not have that, but converted DSD to PCM on the fly. What is the story here?

It's not about native processing, but about way of transport(native vs DoP). When M0 is set to DoP, its DAC fully processes DSD.
You can google it up for more info, here is one simple explanation: https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/support/what-is-dop-dsd-over-pcm/